Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 30 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: And what baby do you know of that wasn't born of water (also known as embryonic fluid). They're bathed (baptized) in it for about 9 months. EXACTLY!!!!!! Thank you for admitting the obvious. But then what part of " Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again (of both WATER and SPIRIT again), he cannot see the kingdom of God. 30 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: But not everyone is born of the Spirit. The first birth requires the spirit to enter the body, in this respect EVERYONE is born of the spirit. To be born again requires both being born of the water AGAIN (Baptism) and being born of the Spirit. 30 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: And I should accept your teachings rather than those found throughout the Bible? My teaching ARE found in the Bible. See John 3:3-5 as has already be quoted.
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: 1. I am not atheist. 2. If you base it all on a feeling, then so can every other religion/person. I feel like temple work is a waste of my time, so my feeling is equally as important or valid as your feeling. I guess everyone is right in his/her own mind. No need to respond. Of course there is. And who said you were an atheist? That is called a "hypothetical" question which helps people to think. It is seeing from another viewpoint and very helpful in learning about others. Yes, with personal revelation God teaches each of us as a loving father would, balancing our development and intelligence with our backgrounds as we move along the path to return to him. You don't teach calculus in kindergarten! 1
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, LittleNipper said: The Spirit teaches through the Word of GOD. We are not GOD and cannot see the BIG PICTURE and frankly believers in eternity will never know everything GOD is aware of. All Christians should realize that the Bible is true and contradicts the teachings of man-made religions. Just a tad circular. Yes, Christians believe the Bible is true or they would not be Christian. That is like saying all bachelor's are unmarried. It is called a circular argument. My question is WHY they believe it's true? See the difference?? Feelings. You you know it in your heart. Otherwise it's just old Legends. Edited October 29, 2018 by mfbukowski 3
LittleNipper Posted October 29, 2018 Author Posted October 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Vance said: EXACTLY!!!!!! Thank you for admitting the obvious. But then what part of " Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again (of both WATER and SPIRIT again), he cannot see the kingdom of God. The first birth requires the spirit to enter the body, in this respect EVERYONE is born of the spirit. To be born again requires both being born of the water AGAIN (Baptism) and being born of the Spirit. My teaching ARE found in the Bible. See John 3:3-5 as has already be quoted. No. If you remember the Jewish pharisee asked the question "Does one need to reenter the womb and be reborn?" And Jesus says You must in fact be born and then born of the spirit. The second birth is spiritual and necessary.
LittleNipper Posted October 29, 2018 Author Posted October 29, 2018 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: Just a tad circular. Yes, Christians believe the Bible is true it they would no be Christian. That is like saying all bachelor's are unmarried. It is called a circular argument. My question is WHY they believe it's true? See the difference?? Feelings. You you know it in your heart. Otherwise it's just old Legends. They believe it to be true because Jesus quoted the Old Testament --- verifying and clarifying that portion. And Jesus taught/trained the Apostles and they later (by way of the Holy Spirit) remembered what Jesus had taught them and they wrote it down.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: No. If you remember the Jewish pharisee asked the question "Does one need to reenter the womb and be reborn?" Does one need to reenter the womb to be baptized by water? No. So, thanks for supporting my point. 8 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: And Jesus says You must in fact be born Yes, which requires both the water and the spirit. James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Is someone who is born dead really born? 8 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: and then born of the spirit. After Water Baptism then yes being born of the Spirit is required. 8 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: The second birth is spiritual and necessary. True, Both baptism by water and of the Spirit are spiritual and necessary. Remember back when you said, Quote Paul is working with what he perceived to bring understanding to those people where they are at, And yet you will not apply this concept here, what Jesus is saying rather clear. You have to twist it to get to your meaning.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: They believe it to be true because Jesus quoted the Old Testament --- verifying and clarifying that portion. And Jesus taught/trained the Apostles and they later (by way of the Holy Spirit) remembered what Jesus had taught them and they wrote it down. Still avoiding his question. HOW do you know the Bible is true?
Ouagadougou Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Of course there is. And who said you were an atheist? That is called a "hypothetical" question which helps people to think. It is seeing from another viewpoint and very helpful in learning about others. Yes, with personal revelation God teaches each of us as a loving father would, balancing our development and intelligence with our backgrounds as we move along the path to return to him. You don't teach calculus in kindergarten! Right...like they always say: "milk before meat," which we hear all the time, as if we will some day in the future discover the secrets of the universe. Based on your responses, I highly doubt that you try to see from a viewpoint that even slightly deviates from what the church wants, which is fine if you are focused on being a faithful member. I have seen both sides and don't find the temple to be worth my time, so we are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 36 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Just a tad circular. Yes, Christians believe the Bible is true it they would no be Christian. That is like saying all bachelor's are unmarried. It is called a circular argument. I'm one of those curmudgeons who prefer to use "begging the question" and rail against those who misuse the phrase. And yes, get those damn kids off of my lawn! 3
LittleNipper Posted October 29, 2018 Author Posted October 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, Vance said: Still avoiding his question. HOW do you know the Bible is true? How do you know the Book of Mormon is true? Jesus is an historical figure and fulfills exactly what the Bible prophecy's. And the Bible historicity is revealed for all to see and visit throughout Israel and the Middle East.
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: How do you know the Book of Mormon is true? Jesus is an historical figure and fulfills exactly what the Bible prophecy's. And the Bible historicity is revealed for all to see and visit throughout Israel and the Middle East. And yet it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together. Please explain how you put your entire faith in a book that the Catholic Church compiled yet you reject the Catholic Church..? Edited October 29, 2018 by MiserereNobis 3
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, MiserereNobis said: And yet it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together. Please explain how you put your entire faith in a book that the Catholic Church compiled yet you reject the Catholic Church..? That is a very good question. But if I were you, I wouldn't put too much into the "it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together" part, meaning that the Catholic Church had (for many years) control over the scriptures just as the "lawyers" and "scribes and Pharisees" before them. Remember Christ said of them. 52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. 53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. • • • 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. • • • 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. • • • 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. • • • 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 39 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: They believe it to be true because Jesus quoted the Old Testament --- verifying and clarifying that portion. And Jesus taught/trained the Apostles and they later (by way of the Holy Spirit) remembered what Jesus had taught them and they wrote it down. Yes, circular argument Jesus quoted the Bible, the Bible says, and then the Bible tells us the apostles wrote the Bible, as it says in the Bible. Modern Scholars are not sure who wrote the Bible. You can't quote the Bible to prove the Bible is true, can't you see that?? Would you believe any book that quotes itself to tell you that it is true because it says so? Like "Read my book I'm telling you it is true so it is." You yourself just made a circular argument saying the Bible quotes itself to be the Bible, and of course the Bible is true because it says it is. You are not thinking this through. Do you get it yet? 1
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: And yet it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together. Please explain how you put your entire faith in a book that the Catholic Church compiled yet you reject the Catholic Church..? Yeah I have never been able to figure that out about Protestants. 2
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vance said: That is a very good question. But if I were you, I wouldn't put too much into the "it was the Catholic Church that put the Bible together" part, meaning that the Catholic Church had (for many years) control over the scriptures just as the "lawyers" and "scribes and Pharisees" before them. Remember Christ said of them. 52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. 53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. • • • 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. • • • 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. • • • 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. • • • 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Yep. You got me, Vance. You win. The fact that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible means that we are scribes and Pharisees. And here I thought we'd agree that the protestant reliance on sola scriptura is illogical since it was the Catholics that put the Bible together. I'm going to go clean my whited sepulcher now. I hear bleach works well. Maybe some fabreeze to cover the smell of death inside. Or maybe it's like I said before, you're just here to argue (not rhetorically) and get enjoyment out of that. 1
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: How do you know the Book of Mormon is true? Jesus is an historical figure and fulfills exactly what the Bible prophecy's. And the Bible historicity is revealed for all to see and visit throughout Israel and the Middle East. Oh goodie! Can I visit God there and see the atonement too? What color is the atonement? How do I know that's true too? I know! Because the Bible says so! 1
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, MiserereNobis said: Yep. You got me, Vance. You win. Oh, goodie, what did I win. Just now, MiserereNobis said: The fact that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible means that we are scribes and Pharisees. Not at all. But just because you had control of the scriptures doesn't make your doctrine or position sound. Just now, MiserereNobis said: And here I thought we'd agree that the protestant reliance on sola scriptura is illogical since it was the Catholics that put the Bible together. I do agree with you on this. And to add to it. They also swallow the doctrine of the Trinity (a Catholic established doctrine post biblical) whole. Go figure. Just now, MiserereNobis said: I'm going to go clean my whited sepulcher now. I hear bleach works well. Maybe some fabreeze to cover the smell of death inside. If you must. I did enjoy showing you the weakness of pushing such flimsy argument for Catholic supremacy. And your doing the same for the Protestant "sola scriptura" also gave me enjoyment. So, thanks.
LittleNipper Posted October 29, 2018 Author Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Oh goodie! Can I visit God there and see the atonement too? What color is the atonement? How do I know that's true too? I know! Because the Bible says so! Actually, you can visit Golgotha, and Pilate is an historical figure (archaeology has proven that)---- the Bible says so. Blood is red. I imagine that you already know that... Edited October 29, 2018 by LittleNipper
Anakin7 Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) From my LDS, Saint, Christian, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian Archives on Water Baptism - http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/03/flood-typology-and-participation-in1.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/03/christian-baptism-as-participation-in.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/daniel-c-arichea-and-eugene-nida-on-1-html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/10/daniel-c-archea-and-eugene-nida-on.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-statutes-of-apostles-on-baptism.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/01/irenaeus-of-lyons-and-heresy-of.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/02/early-lutheran-works-affirming.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/02/john-wesley-affirming-baptismal.htm http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/02/jerry-l-sumney-on-baptismal.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/02/common-logical-fallacies-used-against.html http://scriptruralmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/10/david-pawson-on-problems-of-purly.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/10/david-pawson-on-problems-of-purely.html http://scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2018/05/scott-m-lewis-on-1-corinthians-1529-and.html Note - Some links above work, some do not, A google search or type in on Bar should bring the ones that do not come up clicking link above. Thank you. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 LDS, Saint, Christian, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior Edited October 29, 2018 by Anakin7
mfbukowski Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Actually, you can visit Golgotha, and Pilate is an historical figure (archaeology has proven that)---- the Bible says so. Blood is red. I imagine that you already know that... Yeah my blood is red too, but that didn't forgive anybody's sins. You only know Jesus is different because of your heart 2
LittleNipper Posted October 30, 2018 Author Posted October 30, 2018 10 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Yeah my blood is red too, but that didn't forgive anybody's sins. You only know Jesus is different because of your heart I know that JESUS is different only because of the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT. ANYONE who totally disregards this leading is committing the unpardonable sin --- they have rejected GOD's leading to salvation.
mfbukowski Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: I know that JESUS is different only because of the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT. ANYONE who totally disregards this leading is committing the unpardonable sin --- they have rejected GOD's leading to salvation. In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart and you are led by the feelings of the heart, or hear words or however He communicates to you. Thank you. That was the point from the beginning. 1
LittleNipper Posted October 30, 2018 Author Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, mfbukowski said: In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart and you are led by the feelings of the heart, or hear words or however He communicates to you. Thank you. That was the point from the beginning. Not without BIBLICAL SUPPORT. Salvation is not founded on feelings, but the inspired WORD of GOD. The Holy Spirit brings about this conviction, that JESUS is the CHRIST --- the only connected SON of GOD. Edited October 30, 2018 by LittleNipper
Vance Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleNipper said: Not without BIBLICAL SUPPORT. Because, that is what your feelings tell you? 1 hour ago, LittleNipper said: Salvation is not founded on feelings, but the inspired WORD of GOD. And the Bible is "the inspired WORD of GOD" because of you feel it is? 1 hour ago, LittleNipper said: The Holy Spirit brings about this conviction, that JESUS is the CHRIST --- the only connected SON of GOD. Because that is what your heart tells you? Because your heart tells you that that is what the Bible says? Because your heart tells you that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one? So, back to the topic at hand. It has been demonstrated that Jesus clearly taught that Baptism by water was essential for entry into the kingdom of God. Those who hear the gospel, not in this life but in the spirit world, need Baptism to enter the kingdom of God. Ergo Baptism for the dead. Don't you just love how God's plan provides an opportunity for ALL of his children.
Vance Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 11 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I know that JESUS is different only because of the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT. How did you know it was the Holy Spirit? Because of a feeling in your heart?
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