Duncan Posted August 7, 2018 Posted August 7, 2018 I asked my inactive friend about their thoughts about eternal life and they said that in the Church the "we'll find out in the next life" was the default position, why this or why that or what will happen to and it seemed to be "well, we'll find out in the next life" so they just say if there is a God, what they are like, if there even in a next life or 50 of them, they find out in the next life, FWIW.
Storm Rider Posted August 7, 2018 Posted August 7, 2018 7 hours ago, changed said: I am someone who has left recently. I left after a bishopric member repeatedly molested my children (I do not trust priesthood authority). I support and stand with Sam Young. Recently I have fallen in love with Hinduism, the "oldest religion in the world", and have fallen in love with their temples, scriptures, healthy life style, and selfless practices. Saṃsāra has given me peace that everyone has all the experiences and everyone has equal and just resources. In Hinduism, everyone is "saved", infinite opportunity for growth and development for everyone - not a "small flock" - it is a huge flock, an all-encompassing flock - everyone is welcomed, and everyone is loved. Nice message, but the flaw for me will always focus on Jesus Christ. Without him at the center of the message I don't go anywhere. 2
Popular Post Analytics Posted August 7, 2018 Popular Post Posted August 7, 2018 On 8/6/2018 at 10:54 AM, smac97 said: I will clarify here that this is not intended to be an attempt to dissuade you from your current position. Rather, I would like to better understand your perspective and plans regarding a community that can replace Mormonism and is "better" than Mormonism. One that meets or exceeds your standards and expectations. Or is this an unfair/unreasonable inquiry? Mormonism is a fairly high-demand community. In stepping back from it, is there really a need to replace it with any comparable system of social interaction? Any thoughts? As a "system of social interaction" Mormonism has a lot to offer--it provides a ready-made community with things to talk about, service to render, and opportunities to bond. How do you replace that? For me, it's important to note that I explicitly considered three justifications for staying: 1- Was it really, literally, True? 2- Did it make me and my family better people? 3- Did it make me and my family happier people? When the sincere answer for us was "no" to all three questions, we left. What did we replace it with? I interact with clients and coworkers. I have friends and family. I focus on a job I enjoy. I do a lot of volunteer work. Depending upon the specific question I could fairly be called an atheist, a humanist, or a poetic naturalist. I read. I try to be incredibly gracious to the people I interact with in the real world. I belong to a community or two on the Internet. I'll occasionally visit the Religious Society of Friends. When I was a Boy Scout I was taught to leave every camp site in a better condition than how I found it. If I can leave the world a marginally better place for having been here, I'll die content. 5
smac97 Posted August 7, 2018 Author Posted August 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Analytics said: As a "system of social interaction" Mormonism has a lot to offer--it provides a ready-made community with things to talk about, service to render, and opportunities to bond. How do you replace that? A fair question. 8 minutes ago, Analytics said: For me, it's important to note that I explicitly considered three justifications for staying: 1- Was it really, literally, True? 2- Did it make me and my family better people? 3- Did it make me and my family happier people? When the sincere answer for us was "no" to all three questions, we left. That's an interesting analytical framework. The sincere answer for me is "yes" to all three questions. We each have very different experiences, I suppose. 8 minutes ago, Analytics said: What did we replace it with? I interact with clients and coworkers. I have friends and family. I focus on a job I enjoy. I do a lot of volunteer work. Depending upon the specific question I could fairly be called an atheist, a humanist, or a poetic naturalist. I read. I try to be incredibly gracious to the people I interact with in the real world. I belong to a community or two on the Internet. I'll occasionally visit the Religious Society of Friends. Online communities. I had expected to see more references to those. They don't do much for me. As for the Society of Friends, I have great respect for them. 8 minutes ago, Analytics said: When I was a Boy Scout I was taught to leave every camp site in a better condition than how I found it. If I can leave the world a marginally better place for having been here, I'll die content. Thanks, -Smac
jkwilliams Posted August 7, 2018 Posted August 7, 2018 48 minutes ago, Analytics said: As a "system of social interaction" Mormonism has a lot to offer--it provides a ready-made community with things to talk about, service to render, and opportunities to bond. How do you replace that? For me, it's important to note that I explicitly considered three justifications for staying: 1- Was it really, literally, True? 2- Did it make me and my family better people? 3- Did it make me and my family happier people? When the sincere answer for us was "no" to all three questions, we left. What did we replace it with? I interact with clients and coworkers. I have friends and family. I focus on a job I enjoy. I do a lot of volunteer work. Depending upon the specific question I could fairly be called an atheist, a humanist, or a poetic naturalist. I read. I try to be incredibly gracious to the people I interact with in the real world. I belong to a community or two on the Internet. I'll occasionally visit the Religious Society of Friends. When I was a Boy Scout I was taught to leave every camp site in a better condition than how I found it. If I can leave the world a marginally better place for having been here, I'll die content. Your experience is a lot like mine. I had a sudden realization that I was compromising myself morally by justifying certain things I knew were wrong. When I stopped rationalizing those things, I stopped rationalizing things I knew weren’t true. It wasn’t until a few months later that I realized that, despite what I told myself every day, I wasn’t happy. I had been clinically depressed for 30 years. So, yeah, even if I weren’t doing anything fulfilling or positive, it would still be better than what I left behind. I’m not saying it’s not good and true for others. It just wasn’t for me. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 7, 2018 Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Analytics said: When I was a Boy Scout I was taught to leave every camp site in a better condition than how I found it. If I can leave the world a marginally better place for having been here, I'll die content. I love this teaching and its applicability to more than just campsites! 2
Robert F. Smith Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 16 hours ago, Thinking said: It became necessary to tell my parents about my disbelief when my younger brother got engaged and planned to be married in the temple. I decided to tell them and my brother asap so that my absence from the ceremony wouldn't be a surprise and a distraction. During the resulting dialogue, there were a lot of questions, one of which was, "What church are you attending now?" These questions assume that when we lose our faith, we feel some kind of emptiness that needs to be filled. What the faithful LDS need to understand is that what is classified as a faith crisis is no crisis. For many of us it is an awakening. Another statement/question that I have heard too many times is... Why would I stay in a church that I don't believe can deliver on the elevated promises? IMO, questions like the ones posed by Elder Ballard are designed to distract a person from pursuing legitimate answers to difficult questions. There is nothing at all wrong with following one's conscience or personal feelings -- being true to one's self . . . It does seem to me, however, that humans do crave a purpose in life, and that can be filled with hobbies (hiking, reading, video games, etc.) or other pursuits. Just sitting at home can get old pretty fast, as many a retiree finds out. It is not silly to imagine filling some sort of emptiness left by rejecting one's former life and moving on. Being contemptuous of those who stay and are quite happy is not a very kind and broadminded view. One should expect puzzlement and questions from them. Be generous, kind, and tolerant. They just don't see the world the way you do. 1
changed Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 7 hours ago, smac97 said: Are you saying that the LDS Church was aware of the abuse and "allowed" it to continue? I am fine with you sharing your story, but I will admit to some skepticism on this point. If the Church was aware of "many years" of abuse by this person and nevertheless "allowed the abuse to continue," then that is an extremely serious and disturbing accusation. That sounds very fulfilling. I wish you every success in your endeavors. Thanks, -Smac The abuse ended his first sealing... he was attending one of the LDS addiction recovery groups... and yet, he was still put in leadership positions... I think more LDS folks - and all folks... should spend some time in the Bhagavad Gita and the Tao Te Ching - these books have been life saving for me.
changed Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 18 hours ago, Thinking said: What the faithful LDS need to understand is that what is classified as a faith crisis is no crisis. For many of us it is an awakening. Awakening, enlightenment, freedom - it is a mixture of emotions including anger, sadness ... a mixture of everything and then some.
jkwilliams Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, changed said: Awakening, enlightenment, freedom - it is a mixture of emotions including anger, sadness ... a mixture of everything and then some. Yep. It’s impossible to explain to someone who hasn’t been through it.
Thinking Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: It does seem to me, however, that humans do crave a purpose in life, and that can be filled with hobbies (hiking, reading, video games, etc.) or other pursuits. Just sitting at home can get old pretty fast, as many a retiree finds out. It is not silly to imagine filling some sort of emptiness left by rejecting one's former life and moving on. My purpose is to be nice to people and babysit our grandkids 3-4 times per week. I didn't really add anything, I just found that I had more time to do the things I was already doing. When I retire in 8 years I'll welcome the extra time to accomplish tasks. 2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Being contemptuous of those who stay and are quite happy is not a very kind and broadminded view. One should expect puzzlement and questions from them. Be generous, kind, and tolerant. They just don't see the world the way you do. 👍 1
Storm Rider Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 3 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Yep. It’s impossible to explain to someone who hasn’t been through it. I have been an individual of faith all my life. One of my earliest memories is asking my mom to read from a book entitled Bible Stories and asking questions about God and Jesus. Belief, faith, seemed to be an innate part of my being. One of my first spiritual experiences occurred while still a boy and prior to my baptism in a Fast & Testimony meeting; it was centered on the miracle of life and the worth of a soul. Though I have always been an individual of faith I don't easily believe people; I am not a follower and if the crowd is jumping on a bandwagon I am digging in my heels and trying to understand what is really happening. My folks would describe me as a born skeptic. An odd mix, but it has served me well. You make me laugh out loud making this type of statement. It is exactly what I have said to those with little or no faith or belief. Though faith for me comes easily initially it has been a path of trials, some quite extreme, to grow in faith. It has been a process of refining and reducing beliefs to eternal truths. I had a coach in football as a young boy. He had a sign on the wall that read, "The easy path always leads down". The awakening that you talk about is simply a conscious choice to be blind to all things of eternal importance. This is a common path for humans because it is free of all demands. There is no motivation for personal growth because we have become contented with or place in life. I don't think it is a challenge for those forced to strive in life; the poor, for example. On the flip side, I would ask who is most benefitted when a child of God falls into this place of contentment? I do not seek to be argumentative or really even to start a discussion. They are thoughts I have had in my life and moved beyond them by trial and error.
Thinking Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: The awakening that you talk about is simply a conscious choice to be blind to all things of eternal importance. How do you know this?
Bernard Gui Posted August 8, 2018 Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) On 8/6/2018 at 10:10 AM, hope_for_things said: As for following Jesus. I personally think that following Jesus doesn't necessarily mean belonging to a club, or attending meetings held by an institution. The earliest followers of Jesus were a small minority that was heavily persecuted. The following of Jesus that I think is most important is found in the fruits of our actions, not in an association with a group. How do we treat others, how do we serve, how do we live. The Church described in one of the earliest Christian documents, the Didache, includes belonging to the group, acknowledging and respecting the leaders, as well as living a holy life. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-hoole.html Edited August 8, 2018 by Bernard Gui 3
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