SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) There is no reason to doubt the existence of God. Atheism is a false religion spreading rapidly like fire because a growing number of millennials are unsure (or not fully convinced) of the existence of God. I am very worried about all the secularism in our country, so we need to teach others the truth. The scientific method is to observe, hypothesize, predict, verify, and validate. I believe we can learn to recognize spiritual promptings by following the scientific method. For some it may not easy to recognize the spirit and can take them many years of practice, but we all need to be patient. Always keep trying and never giving up is the key for success. I will share a series of steps to help others recognize the spirit using the scientific method 1. Observation Go to church and listen carefully to the testimony of the members. Read the testimonies of the prophets. Observe how happy the members are for obeying the commandments. 2. Hypothesize Be open to the possibility that God answers prayers 3. Predict Predict how God is going to bless you. For example, predict you are going feel happier after going to church. Never predict material things like money, you have to predict something the scriptures promise. 4. Verify Observe the results and pay attention to your thoughts and feelings. 5. Validate Repeat steps 1 to 4. Your spiritual experiences are going to replicate. With enough practice you are going to learn how to recognize the spirit. It may take time, but never give up. Yes the scientific method is far from perfect, but it can help many to recognize the spirit. Edited March 3, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite 2
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 3, 2018 Author Posted March 3, 2018 Hopefully my words help Five Solas, Spammer, and others. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: .................................. 2. Hypothesize Be open to the possibility that God answers prayers................................. Do you recognize that scientific step #2 requires one to be open to the possibility that God doesn't answer prayers (falsifiability)? 3
Robert F. Smith Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Hopefully my words help Five Solas, Spammer, and others. Are those 5 steps equivalent to the 5 prerequisites of Five Solas?
CA Steve Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Some interesting thoughts Sam, but the scientific measurements you are trying to take here, that of 'happiness or some other non-material blessing' are very subjective and can be influenced by a lot a factors besides being blessed by specific answers from prayers. You don't really have a way to control for those other factors and therefore your results would be highly questionable. If you are really interested in measuring spiritual things you need to find something we commonly do involving the spirit, like maybe praying for the sick, and apply a double blind sort of test to the results of those prayers. If you were really interested in showing atheist how wrong they are, a study like this might work, depending on the results of course. Take a large population of patients being admitted to hospitals for the same reason. Something like strokes in men age 50-60. Split them up into at least 4 balanced groups. Submit the names for group #1 to the temple prayer rolls and let the patients know their names have been so submitted. Submit the names for group #2 to the temple prayer rolls but do not tell them. Don't submit the names of group #3, but tell them their names were submitted. And group #4 is the control group. After all patients treatment courses have ended, have an independent medical professional(s) who do not know anything about your study, evaluate the results of all the patients in the test to see if there is any discernible difference in outcomes. The more times such a test was done and the larger the pool of participants the more reliable the results would be. 4
Jane_Doe Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Do you recognize that scientific step #2 requires one to be open to the possibility that God doesn't answer prayers (falsifiability)? Of course. That is the need for repeated testing of hypothesis and review of data.
Tacenda Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Just listen to youtubes of Mediums and Near Death Experiences, does wonders for belief of a higher being and our loved ones all together. And they aren't separated into different kingdoms, YAY!
Jeanne Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Just listen to youtubes of Mediums and Near Death Experiences, does wonders for belief of a higher being and our loved ones all together. And they aren't separated into different kingdoms, YAY! I agree. I am really into this from all aspects...the correlation between many of these experiences touch me deeply. I would also like to note that I corresponded with Tacenda's medium relative...and in many instances was astounded. My questions were deep and at one point she had an answer that no one could have known. I have never asked these questions before...and needed them. Edited March 3, 2018 by Jeanne
Tacenda Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Thanks for mentioning my niece, Jeanne. I would recommend going to a Medium especially for those that have lost a loved one. During my time with her I asked her about the church and told her of my years suffering with not knowing if the church was true. And her answer was postitive that there is truth in all religions. So she just told me to love and serve my fellow beings. And she is such an example of that. I forget though, to look for the signs our loved ones leave for us, and I forget to speak out loud when I need them. I try not to be a skeptic, even when it's right in front of me. I think in order to feel those on the other side, many could benefit through meditation and I've never done that in my life. So I have to work on so much in order to connect with 'spirit', as she calls it. I continually have to fight off feelings of skepticism. And this is probably why I am unable to feel any answers from God about things. Edited March 3, 2018 by Tacenda
CA Steve Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Turns out some interesting scientific studies have been done and are being done regarding NDE's. A common claim in these events is an out of body experience where the patient is hovering above her body looking down on her body on the gurney while medical staff work on it. To test this claim researcher have been placing cards with numbers on them hanging on the ceiling, with the numbers facing upwards or placing specific items on a high shelf that cannot be seen by medical personnel. Then they are interviewing those claiming to have that specific type of NDE experience to see if they can identify the numbers or items. I am still looking into the results but I would suspect that these studies will show that such items or numbers are not identifiable. It would be interesting to try a similar sort of study on a medium by asking them to identify the numbers on a random number generator or some unknown item to either the medium or client. Sorry Tacenda, I have to strongly disagree with encouraging people who are mourning the loss of a loved one to go to a medium, as I believe they are just making money off of people's emotions. I have watched people who do cold reading enough to know how easy it is to fool someone into believing that the information being produced is somehow from an exterior source. 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 4, 2018 Author Posted March 4, 2018 9 hours ago, CA Steve said: If you were really interested in showing atheist how wrong they are, a study like this might work, depending on the results of course. I will do more to fight Atheism. I suppose you are a believer in God, so please share what are your best evidences for his existence. I need ideas please. 18 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Do you recognize that scientific step #2 requires one to be open to the possibility that God doesn't answer prayers (falsifiability)? You can't be open to something you already know it's impossible. I already know God is real.
JarMan Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 19 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is no reason to doubt the existence of God. Atheism is a false religion spreading rapidly like fire because a growing number of millennials are unsure (or not fully convinced) of the existence of God. I am very worried about all the secularism in our country, so we need to teach others the truth. The scientific method is to observe, hypothesize, predict, verify, and validate. I believe we can learn to recognize spiritual promptings by following the scientific method. For some it may not easy to recognize the spirit and can take them many years of practice, but we all need to be patient. Always keep trying and never giving up is the key for success. I will share a series of steps to help others recognize the spirit using the scientific method 1. Observation Go to church and listen carefully to the testimony of the members. Read the testimonies of the prophets. Observe how happy the members are for obeying the commandments. 2. Hypothesize Be open to the possibility that God answers prayers 3. Predict Predict how God is going to bless you. For example, predict you are going feel happier after going to church. Never predict material things like money, you have to predict something the scriptures promise. 4. Verify Observe the results and pay attention to your thoughts and feelings. 5. Validate Repeat steps 1 to 4. Your spiritual experiences are going to replicate. With enough practice you are going to learn how to recognize the spirit. It may take time, but never give up. Yes the scientific method is far from perfect, but it can help many to recognize the spirit. Alma had similar concerns when he went to the Zoramites to preach to them. Do you think his sermon to them in Alma 32 about experimenting by exercising a particle of faith shows some type of awareness of the scientific method?
sunstoned Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 20 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: There is no reason to doubt the existence of God. Atheism is a false religion spreading rapidly like fire because a growing number of millennials are unsure (or not fully convinced) of the existence of God. I am very worried about all the secularism in our country, so we need to teach others the truth. The scientific method is to observe, hypothesize, predict, verify, and validate. I believe we can learn to recognize spiritual promptings by following the scientific method. For some it may not easy to recognize the spirit and can take them many years of practice, but we all need to be patient. Always keep trying and never giving up is the key for success. I will share a series of steps to help others recognize the spirit using the scientific method 1. Observation Go to church and listen carefully to the testimony of the members. Read the testimonies of the prophets. Observe how happy the members are for obeying the commandments. 2. Hypothesize Be open to the possibility that God answers prayers 3. Predict Predict how God is going to bless you. For example, predict you are going feel happier after going to church. Never predict material things like money, you have to predict something the scriptures promise. 4. Verify Observe the results and pay attention to your thoughts and feelings. 5. Validate Repeat steps 1 to 4. Your spiritual experiences are going to replicate. With enough practice you are going to learn how to recognize the spirit. It may take time, but never give up. Yes the scientific method is far from perfect, but it can help many to recognize the spirit. Do you understand that a proposed theory must be falsifiable? Do you understand what this means? Are you willing to accept that god might not exist?
sunstoned Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 48 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: I will do more to fight Atheism. I suppose you are a believer in God, so please share what are your best evidences for his existence. I need ideas please. You can't be open to something you already know it's impossible. I already know God is real. You already know? Yet you try to bring science into this? You obviously have no understanding of scientific inquiry. Stop now while your little world is still intact. Exposing one's beliefs to the light of honest scrutiny can be a very disruptive process. 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 4, 2018 Author Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, sunstoned said: Are you willing to accept that god might not exist? Why? Give me a reason. Are you willing to accept that God might exists? For me God is real and I cannot deny his miracles. God gives me hope and meaning in life. Edited March 4, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
Robert F. Smith Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: ................................................... You can't be open to something you already know it's impossible. I already know God is real. The scientific method requires all hypotheses to be falsifiable. If not they are not testable, they are not real hypotheses. The fact that you personally believe that God exists is irrelevant. You presented a 5-step scientific method to find out whether God exists. If you decide the conclusion before the experiment, then the experiment is meaningless and invalid. The test must be authentic, and to be authentic it must be possible for it to go either way. 3
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 4, 2018 Author Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: The scientific method requires all hypotheses to be falsifiable. If not they are not testable, they are not real hypotheses. The fact that you personally believe that God exists is irrelevant. You presented a 5-step scientific method to find out whether God exists. If you decide the conclusion before the experiment, then the experiment is meaningless and invalid. The test must be authentic, and to be authentic it must be possible for it to go either way. Okay Robert F Smith. Do you have a better method? How would you help people like Five Solas, Spammer, and others?
Robert F. Smith Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Okay Robert F Smith. Do you have a better method? How would you help people like Five Solas, Spammer, and others? Please call me Bob, Sam. There is nothing wrong with the method you suggested. I just wanted you to understand what that method entails, since you obviously cribbed it from elsewhere. Maybe Five Solas will like that method, even though he seems to have contempt for Moroni 10. You can find another method at Alma 32:17-43, which is the experimental method. Perhaps that would appeal to Five Solas. However, I am not sure whether he even likes James 1:5-8, which is an excellent path to the truth.
mfbukowski Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 13 hours ago, sunstoned said: You already know? Yet you try to bring science into this? You obviously have no understanding of scientific inquiry. Stop now while your little world is still intact. Exposing one's beliefs to the light of honest scrutiny can be a very disruptive process. Which can be overcome when one learns that science has nothing to do with religion. But yes, most atheists get stuck right here at this level and do not learn about their own illusions of what is real and what is not. It takes philosophy to blow that bubble, and then you come right back to God. A fun path, but as we see many get lost along the way. Gosh I think that is called "we come here to learn by faith"..... I have heard that somewhere before..... We all create our own worlds from matter unorganized if we admit it or not. That's what we are designed to do.
mfbukowski Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 13 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Why? Give me a reason. Are you willing to accept that God might exists? For me God is real and I cannot deny his miracles. God gives me hope and meaning in life. Perfect. Stay there and quit worrying about science. Science is deliberately designed to NOT be about God- that is what you do not understand. Science presumes atheism since evidence of God is not quantifiable. All you are describing here is a psychology experiment having to do with human perceptions. That is not hard science which is designed to BE atheistic.
Spammer Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Okay Robert F Smith. Do you have a better method? How would you help people like Five Solas, Spammer, and others? The first step is to recognize and accept that your own spiritual experiences have nothing to do whatsoever with the content of others’ spiritual experiences. You can never know what others have truly experienced without experiencing their experiences as they’re experienced. Which is impossible. Without that, your thoughts on what they experienced are merely a guess. Telling others they didn’t really experience what they think they experienced based on a guess is hubris. It’s also insulting, no matter how well intentioned. So, if someone says that God did not answer their sincere prayer, you have to accept it and not try to explain their experience away. Edited March 4, 2018 by Spammer 1
Thinking Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 14 hours ago, sunstoned said: You already know? Yet you try to bring science into this? You obviously have no understanding of scientific inquiry. Stop now while your little world is still intact. Exposing one's beliefs to the light of honest scrutiny can be a very disruptive process. This.
sunstoned Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) dup Edited March 4, 2018 by sunstoned dup
sunstoned Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Which can be overcome when one learns that science has nothing to do with religion. But yes, most atheists get stuck right here at this level and do not learn about their own illusions of what is real and what is not. It takes philosophy to blow that bubble, and then you come right back to God. A fun path, but as we see many get lost along the way. Gosh I think that is called "we come here to learn by faith"..... I have heard that somewhere before..... We all create our own worlds from matter unorganized if we admit it or not. That's what we are designed to do. I understand what you are saying and I agree that the realm of religion and faith can coexist with science as long as the two stay separate. But that is not what SamTheLam is saying. He wants to prove religion through science. And as George Castanza would say, those are worlds colliding. Edited March 4, 2018 by sunstoned
Jeanne Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, sunstoned said: I understand what you are saying and I agree that the realm of religion and faith can coexist with science as long as the two stay separate. But that is not what SamTheLam is saying. He wants to prove religion through science. And as George Castanza would say, those are worlds colliding. If SamTheLam can ever prove religion to science,,,please let me know. I think it sounds crazy..but crazy enough that I might understand things better because of it I have always that God would work with laws of nature...to actually understand a connection would be more realistic to me.
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