kiwi57 Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, ALarson said: Who are you quoting here? These are not my words. I know this. In fact, I rather clearly and explicitly said that they were not. The line immediately before the one that triggered your artificial indignation reads: To more accurately represent the true state of affairs, your statement above should read something like this: What does the word "should" mean to you, ALarson? The fact is, ALarson, that you didn't point anything out. You made an argument, based upon an assumption about what was in the SP's mind at the time he wrote the email, but which was not found in the words thereof. The only "dishonest dialogue" I can see is the attempt to smuggle your interpretation into someone else's words. Quote I really dislike this type of dishonest dialogue. What, exactly, was dishonest about it? Quote I stated clearly (twice) what I thought. Do not put words in my mouth. Okay. I won't. And, as you know, I haven't yet. Edited February 19, 2018 by kiwi57 1
kiwi57 Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 4 hours ago, kiwi57 said: Her behaviour wasn't merely "annoying," it was destructive. Make no mistake. And, just BTW, who says that her ex and the alleged "other woman" were the "wrongdoers?" Well, she does. I'm not quite sure how to break it to you, but her word doesn't exactly carry a lot of credibility any more. The alleged "emotional affair." The thing is that she was trying to get the members of the ward to take sides with her, and thus socially isolate her ex. Such behaviour is utterly reprehensible and cannot be tolerated. Now Tacenda, I realise that we've got a major bit of feminist dudgeon going on here. Well, it happens that one of the victims of her systematic smear campaign was a woman. Who's going to speak up for her? Do not smear female posters. Do not put words in other poster's mouth. For the delight and edification of anyone who actually cares, to put words into someone else's mouth does not mean to suggest an alternative phrasing that would be more accurate. See this page: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+words+in+mouth Ironically, those who wishfully assume that the SP's apology means that he thinks he shouldn't have withdrawn the lady's Temple Recommend may themselves be the ones putting words in someone else's mouth. And can anyone actually cite a single word I've written that, by any reasonable construction, comes within a light year of smearing a female poster? Feminist dudgeon. If you think that is acceptable and you want to argue about it you are leaving the thread. 2
smac97 Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: For the delight and edification of anyone who actually cares, to put words into someone else's mouth does not mean to suggest an alternative phrasing that would be more accurate. See this page: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+words+in+mouth Ironically, those who wishfully assume that the SP's apology means that he thinks he shouldn't have withdrawn the lady's Temple Recommend may themselves be the ones putting words in someone else's mouth. And can anyone actually cite a single word I've written that, by any reasonable construction, comes within a light year of smearing a female poster? Feminist dungeon. If you think that is acceptable and you want to argue about it you are leaving the thread. He did not use the word dungeon. He used the word dudgeon. Quite a big difference. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 39 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: For the delight and edification of anyone who actually cares, to put words into someone else's mouth does not mean to suggest an alternative phrasing that would be more accurate. See this page: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+words+in+mouth Ironically, those who wishfully assume that the SP's apology means that he thinks he shouldn't have withdrawn the lady's Temple Recommend may themselves be the ones putting words in someone else's mouth. And can anyone actually cite a single word I've written that, by any reasonable construction, comes within a light year of smearing a female poster? Feminist dungeon. If you think that is acceptable and you want to argue about it you are leaving the thread. For the record, Kiwi did not say “dungeon.” He said dudgeon. It means, according to an online source, “a fit or state of indignation.” And, for the record, I have observed that here as well. How about, for the benefit of everyone, this entire unseemly thread be closed? I don’t see it doing anyone any good. I hate it when I confuse insults.
The Nehor Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 To be fair people in a state of dudgeon should be locked in a dungeon. Not to be confused with dungareed dudish drudgeons or dunted dundrearies who make good duddies or duncical dunderheads who should be packed in dunnage or dunning dunkers who collect dunite on dunams with dunlim. A cookie to the first person to translate that into English.
cipriano Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 I think the term "emotional affair" (which started this mess) is asinine and childish. It's cocktail party psychiatry at its worst.
Popular Post Gray Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, cipriano said: I think the term "emotional affair" (which started this mess) is asinine and childish. It's cocktail party psychiatry at its worst. What's childish about it? Do you think it's no big deal for a married man to have a nonsexual but romantic relationship with a woman he's not married to? 9
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 11 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: For the record, Kiwi did not say “dungeon.” He said dudgeon. It means, according to an online source, “a fit or state of indignation.” And, for the record, I have observed that here as well. How about, for the benefit of everyone, this entire unseemly thread be closed? I don’t see it doing anyone any good. I hate it when I confuse insults. On the one hand, “feminist dungeon” makes no sense, as an insult or anything else. On the other hand, an observation of a “feminist state of indignation” is scarcely an insult. On this board it is an insult when applied to a class of people. a feeling of offense or deep resentment. "the manager walked out in high dudgeon" synonyms: indignantly, resentfully, angrily, furiously; in a temper, in anger, with displeasure; informal in a huff, seeing red
Popular Post The Nehor Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 19, 2018 5 hours ago, cipriano said: I think the term "emotional affair" (which started this mess) is asinine and childish. It's cocktail party psychiatry at its worst. What would you rather call emotional infidelity? 5
Popular Post omni Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, cipriano said: I think the term "emotional affair" (which started this mess) is asinine and childish. It's cocktail party psychiatry at its worst. An emotional affair (not sure why so many insist on using scare quotes for the term) can be every bit, if not more damaging than a physical affair. An emotional affair isn't simply being attracted to someone who isn't your partner, it can and often does involve love, sexting, lies, and intimate feelings over a long period of time. 8
Popular Post bluebell Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, omni said: An emotional affair (not sure why so many insist on using scare quotes for the term) can be every bit, if not more damaging than a physical affair. An emotional affair isn't simply being attracted to someone who isn't your partner, it can and often does involve love, sexting, lies, and intimate feelings over a long period of time. Exactly. An emotional affair is just as much infidelity to a spouse as a physical affair is. In many ways, an emotional affair is more devastating than a physical affair because it's not just lust, it's love. 6
Popular Post The Nehor Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, bluebell said: Exactly. An emotional affair is just as much infidelity to a spouse as a physical affair is. In many ways, an emotional affair is more devastating than a physical affair because it's not just lust, it's love. This. Lust is often easier to get over. That is not to say that emotional affairs are always characterized correctly. Jealous and possessive spouses/SOs have been know to throw the term around indiscriminately to prevent their partner from having any friends of their preferred gender as a means of control. That a diagnosis can be misapplied does not make the real thing less dangerous. Edited February 19, 2018 by The Nehor 5
Danzo Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 This is just a weird thread. 19 pages!. Only in Utah. Whether someone has a temple recommend makes the local news. Someone who doesn't seem to want to go to the temple anyway! What happens when someone sits in your family's pew? do you call in the FBI? Does the internal politics of the Methodists or the Presbyterians get the same treatment?
cdowis Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) del Edited February 19, 2018 by cdowis
cdowis Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, omni said: An emotional affair (not sure why so many insist on using scare quotes for the term) can be every bit, if not more damaging than a physical affair. An emotional affair isn't simply being attracted to someone who isn't your partner, it can and often does involve love, sexting, lies, and intimate feelings over a long period of time. What do you call it if is simply a friendship with someone of the opposite sex?
omni Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, cdowis said: What do you call it if is simply a friendship with someone of the opposite sex? A friendship. However, according to the OP that's not what we're talking about here. 3
Amulek Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 22 hours ago, Thinking said: I don't think that the SP intended to bully. Neither do I, and I kind of think that intent matters in situations like these. Quote Still, the woman felt bullied because she was told to be quiet. Well, she wasn’t told to be quiet as in “speak of this to no one and suffer in silence." She was asked to simply stop talking about it with people at church. If she had limited her conversations about the situation to her adult family members who all lived outside the ward, her therapist, her Bishop/Stake President, etc. there wouldn’t have been a problem.
smac97 Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: On the one hand, “feminist dungeon” makes no sense, as an insult or anything else. On the other hand, an observation of a “feminist state of indignation” is scarcely an insult. On this board it is an insult when applied to a class of people. a feeling of offense or deep resentment. "the manager walked out in high dudgeon" synonyms: indignantly, resentfully, angrily, furiously; in a temper, in anger, with displeasure; informal in a huff, seeing red "Feminist dudgeon" (which was initially misconstrued as "feminist dungeon") is an "insult when applied to a class of people?" How about "mansplaining?" Just trying to figure out the rules here. They are confusing, to say the least. Thanks, -Smac 2
bluebell Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, smac97 said: "Feminist dudgeon" (which was initially misconstrued as "feminist dungeon") is an "insult when applied to a class of people?" How about "mansplaining?" Just trying to figure out the rules here. They are confusing, to say the least. Thanks, -Smac Are you asking if pointing out that a poster is being condescending and patronizing by explaining something to a woman that she actually knows more about is against the rules? Speaking only for myself, i think that sometimes it can be insulting and other times it's highlighting insulting behavior that the poster doesn't realize (usually do to the cultural conditioning) is insulting. I don't know that i've ever seen 'mansplaining' used to describe all men on this board though. Can you provide an example of someone using that word to apply to an entire class of people? 1
provoman Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 19 hours ago, kiwi57 said: Do not smear female posters. Do not put words in other poster's mouth. 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: On this board it is an insult when applied to a class of people. a feeling of offense or deep resentment. "the manager walked out in high dudgeon" synonyms: indignantly, resentfully, angrily, furiously; in a temper, in anger, with displeasure; informal in a huff, seeing red 4 minutes ago, smac97 said: "Feminist dudgeon" (which was initially misconstrued as "feminist dungeon") is an "insult when applied to a class of people?" How about "mansplaining?" Just trying to figure out the rules here. They are confusing, to say the least. Thanks, -Smac As you can see from what was told to Kiwi57 "Do not smear female posters", Kiwi was not told "Do not smear posters". Kiwi 57 was issued a gender specific command "Do not smear female posters." As for what was told to Scott, "when it applied to a class of people". In terms of the gender-phobic derogatory use of "mansplaining" used in this thread, well the user has stated "no on in this thread has been accused of mansplaining". So first the prohibition against smearing does not apply because that prohibition is gender specific, and second the gender-phobic derogatory use of a pejorative does not apply since it was applied to an individual.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, bluebell said: Are you asking if pointing out that a poster is being condescending and patronizing by explaining something to a woman that she actually knows more about is against the rules? Speaking only for myself, i think that sometimes it can be insulting and other times it's highlighting insulting behavior that the poster doesn't realize (usually do to the cultural conditioning) is insulting. I don't know that i've ever seen 'mansplaining' used to describe all men on this board though. Can you provide an example of someone using that word to apply to an entire class of people? man + (ex)plaining = mansplaining Aren’t men a class of people? Incidentally, I’ll just tack this on to this post, though it doesn’t address anything you wrote, but I’m just wondering how a term mistakenly perceived as “feminist dungeon” could be taken as an insult since, as I pointed out a while ago, “feminist dungeon” makes no sense. How can it be perceived as an insult if it is unintelligible? Finally, is it an insult to suggest that a “class of people” is resentful or feels offended over something? Edited February 19, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: man + (ex)plaining = mansplaining Aren’t men a class of people? It's not mensplaining... It's applied when a (one) man, takes it upon himself to condescendingly explain something to a woman / women... 3
bluebell Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: man + (ex)plaining = mansplaining Aren’t men a class of people? Incidentally, I’ll just tack this on to this post, though it doesn’t address anything you wrote, but I’m just wondering how a term mistakenly perceived as “feminist dungeon” could be taken as an insult since, as I pointed out a while ago, “feminist dungeon” makes no sense. How can it be perceived as an insult if it is unintelligible? Finally, is it an insult to suggest that a “class of people” might be resentful or feel offended over something? man + (ex)plaining = mansplaining isn't the definition of mansplaining though. The term is used to describe a very specific type of explanation given by men to women-one that is condescending and patronizing. These are actual examples of 'mansplaining' "at the racetrack—where I've worked for 14 years—men regularly try to explain to me how gambling works as I take their bets." "men regularly try to explain that there weren't women writing in the Middle Ages (I have a PhD in medieval women's writing)." "A man tried to explain to me how to correctly insert a tampon. no, this person was not a doctor." "Menstruation. (Didn't believe I had my period because "it's not the 28th.")" "How to ride a bike. While I'm on my bike. By a guy sitting in the SUV driving next to me." "He explained the Welsh national anthem and the Welsh language (I am Welsh and speak it fluently, this guy was English)." "Writing on evolution & gender for my masters in bioanthro at Cambridge; a man incorrectly explained natural selection to me, cited wikipedia." Hopefully those few examples will help you understand the specific complaint being made when someone uses that word. 1
cdowis Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, bluebell said: man + (ex)plaining = mansplaining isn't the definition of mansplaining though. The term is used to describe a very specific type of explanation given by men to women-one that is condescending and patronizing. These are actual examples of 'mansplaining' Posting a comment on this forum on how a SP should have carried out his responsibility. Ex-Mormon who says that, as a Mormon, she had never opened the Bible. Edited February 19, 2018 by cdowis
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: It's not mensplaining... It's applied when a (one) man, takes it upon himself to condescendingly explain something to a woman / women... But it is a term that ordinarily could only be applied to men. Therefore, it does single out a class of people. In that respect it is like “white male privilege” — except that the latter is not just sexist but racist to boot.
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