Josh Khinder Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 On 1/30/2018 at 8:52 PM, Duncan said: Do you think they are people who have turned down being called to be a General Authority? as in say Pres. Hinckley or Pres. Kimball or whoever extended the call to someone and they um, no thanks Maybe the salary is to low
Duncan Posted February 15, 2018 Author Posted February 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said: Maybe the salary is to low *too 2
Rain Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) On 1/31/2018 at 2:43 AM, Marginal Gains said: Wouldn’t deeming yourself worthy of being called as a General Authority be considered the sin of pride or a lack of humility? No. When Nephi was given commands he knew the Lord would make up for his weaknesses. He would prepare the way for him. It showed his faith. If someone is called as a GA and has faith that the Lord will make up for their weaknesses then they will accept the calling. Being prideful is something totally different. Pride is when you feel you know better than the Lord and that you deserve to be a GA. That you could have got there on your own. That you are better than others so you should be there when others shouldn't be. On 2/1/2018 at 10:39 AM, Bernard Gui said: Is it common for members to share their experiences with declining callings? Or those giving callings to publicly out those who decline? No, but I have no problem sharing, depending on the situation, because I think some good things can be learned from the sharing of it. There are appropriate times and places for it. Edited February 15, 2018 by Rain 2
Bernard Gui Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Maybe the salary is to low You probably aren’t aware of the secret luxury yacht at the oppulent Church dock on Antelope Island in the Great Salt Lake and the 36-hole golf resort in Hooper. Just two of the many perks provided.... Edited February 15, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Jeanne Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Just heresy...but I heard Monson had some property in Hawaii....I really don't care anymore but hey...they got paid something! Disregard this post if it is not in realm of rules because of heresy...whereby, I apologize in advance..but I was just curious.
Bernard Gui Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) On 2/14/2018 at 12:17 PM, Stargazer said: That's a very interesting principle you have going there! Anyone who would consider accepting a call to be an Apostle is unworthy of the office? This means that no-one should be able to accept such a call, and therefore the Quorum of the Twelve should ideally be entirely empty of Apostles? What about the person making such a call? If no one can accept a call to the Apostleship because to do so is prideful, then making such a call is intrinsically a recognition and accusation that the callee is unacceptably prideful, since only a prideful person could accept such a call, and there would be no point of issuing such a call unless the expectation was that the call would be accepted. So, Christ issued calls to fill the Twelve because He believed everyone one of them, from Peter on down to Judas were intrinsically prideful? Because surely he expected that they would accept the call. I don’t recall ever hearing a newly-called apostle saying, “Of course I accept. It’s about time! What took you so long?” Edited February 19, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Josh Khinder Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: You probably aren’t aware of the secret luxury yacht at the oppulent Church dock on Antelope Island in the Great Salt Lake and the 36-hole golf resort in Hooper. Just two of the many perks provided.... You forgot the 2.8 million condo, body guards and chauffeured driven limousines http://youtu.be/M5Db_HFmJdg
Maestrophil Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: You forgot the 2.8 million condo, body guards and chauffeured driven limousines http://youtu.be/M5Db_HFmJdg All of this is a pittance compared to what executives of other non-profits make. It is a nice living allowance, but very humble considering the lifetime dedication with no other guaranteed income, All things considered, it is a very modest compensation. Edited February 15, 2018 by Maestrophil
Josh Khinder Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Maestrophil said: All of this is a pittance compared to what executives of other non-profits make. It is a nice living allowance, but very humble considering the lifetime dedication with no other guaranteed income, All things considered, it is a very modest compensation. Tell that to The Original 12 Apostles
Maestrophil Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 20 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Tell that to The Original 12 Apostles I would. Survival and travel in those days were worlds different from what they are now - if they were to cover the world and run a church of millions, I am sure the membership would sustain their costs for home, clothing, and travel.
Josh Khinder Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Maestrophil said: I would. Survival and travel in those days were worlds different from what they are now - if they were to cover the world and run a church of millions, I am sure the membership would sustain their costs for home, clothing, and travel. How many of the original 12 were killed for there beliefs compared to the multitude of Mormon Apostles ?
Duncan Posted February 16, 2018 Author Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said: How many of the original 12 were killed for there beliefs compared to the multitude of Mormon Apostles ? it's crazy, you give them your life and they give you a car 2
Maestrophil Posted February 18, 2018 Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 12:13 PM, Josh Khinder said: How many of the original 12 were killed for there beliefs compared to the multitude of Mormon Apostles ? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China (or stipends) :-) If you want to start another threat about martyrdom, go ahead - LDS have those too - and we claim the 'original' 12 as ours too. :-)
Maestrophil Posted February 18, 2018 Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) On 2/16/2018 at 12:13 PM, Josh Khinder said: How many of the original 12 were killed for there beliefs compared to the multitude of Mormon Apostles ? Plus, the more important question is reliant on circumstance - how many of the current 12 WOULD die for what they believe. Given the ones I have been privileged to know, I would venture all of them would. Thankfully, that opportunity has not come. Edited February 19, 2018 by Maestrophil 1
Bernard Gui Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) On 2/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, Josh Khinder said: Tell that to The Original 12 Apostles Body guards and security vehicles because of bigoted, hateful idiots who agitate and make threats. On 2/15/2018 at 10:26 AM, Josh Khinder said: You forgot the 2.8 million condo, body guards and chauffeured driven limousines http://youtu.be/M5Db_HFmJdg The video you supplied does not support your slander. If you are referring to Boyd Packer and want a hostile source, see this. https://mormoninsider.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/boyd-packers-home/ Even then, you do not have any factual basis for criticism because you give no history of purchase price, increase in property values, length of ownership, how the property was obtained, acreage, etc. I have been inside Elder Packer’s home in Lindon/Pleasant Grove many, many times. It still has the mural he painted on the living room wall with all the birds he saw in their yard. It’s indeed a very humble home. If you are claiming he lived an opulent lifestyle, you are sadly mistaken. If he bought the SLC home when he became a General Authority in 1961 (I don’t know that he did), one would expect the property values in that part of SLC to have increased substantially...over 50 years. A neighboring home to his has more than doubled in value - $600,000 to $1.3 million since 2000. For comparison, after law school my son Abogadissimo rented an 800 sq ft GI/WW2 era shack with a postage stamp yard near UCLA with his wife and three kids. Rent was over $3000 per month. The original price was less than $10,000. An identical house across the street went on the market for $1.3 million. Does that make him some sort of suspicious materialistic creepy hypocritical oligarch living high on the hog while all those folks over in Watts suffer oppression and injustice? Edited February 19, 2018 by Bernard Gui 3
ksfisher Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/14/2018 at 7:47 PM, Josh Khinder said: Maybe the salary is to low Here’s an interesting quote I found. Can’t vouch for the author, the veracity, or implication of it, but it’s interesting. ”Judas Iscariot, chosen by Jesus as treasurer, appears to be the only disciple who struggled continually with financial insecurity.” https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/occupations-of-the-12-disciples-faq.htm
Bernard Gui Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 9:12 AM, Jeanne said: Just heresy...but I heard Monson had some property in Hawaii....I really don't care anymore but hey...they got paid something! Disregard this post if it is not in realm of rules because of heresy...whereby, I apologize in advance..but I was just curious. How about confirmation of that with some meaningful details, and then an explanation why that would be objectionable. 1
Maestrophil Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 10:12 AM, Jeanne said: Just heresy...but I heard Monson had some property in Hawaii....I really don't care anymore but hey...they got paid something! Disregard this post if it is not in realm of rules because of heresy...whereby, I apologize in advance..but I was just curious. Yeah... Suspect some of them have even *gasp* gone on cruises to exotic places, and vacationed in Paris. I bet they might have eaten at some fancy restaurants too, or maybe owned a second vehicle. Oh the horror!! :-)
Jeanne Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: How about confirmation of that with some meaningful details, and then an explanation why that would be objectionable. How about an apology..will that do? I pretty much stated a heresy and admitted it...shouldn't have done that. Sorry. That being said...I don't care if anyone owns the entire universe..
Bernard Gui Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jeanne said: How about an apology..will that do? I pretty much stated a heresy and admitted it...shouldn't have done that. Sorry. That being said...I don't care if anyone owns the entire universe.. No worries! I just get heartburn with unsubstantiated and suggestive rumors that appear to be meant to undermine our esteem for our leaders. Remember the rumors that one of the Church leaders was a frequent patron of SLC gay bars? When you and I run the universe, everything will be different. Edited February 19, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted February 19, 2018 Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) On 2/19/2018 at 8:34 AM, Maestrophil said: Yeah... Suspect some of them have even *gasp* gone on cruises to exotic places, and vacationed in Paris. I bet they might have eaten at some fancy restaurants too, or maybe owned a second vehicle. Oh the horror!! :-) Or maybe they don’t select suits and ties from DI racks. Edited February 21, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Marginal Gains Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 On 15/02/2018 at 12:11 AM, Calm said: You sound like you see an Apostle as some almost superhuman individual. Why would it be any more prideful to accept a calling as an Apostle than it would be to be a bishop or to think one is worthy to enter the temple? Or even be a parent? No one deserves to have that life and death, molding of their innocent minds power/responsibility. Which part of what I asked and explained suggests I consider Apostles superhuman? When an Apostles stands and speaks at General Conference, you view their words as no different to listening to a Bishop or a temple worthy member give a talk?
Marginal Gains Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 On 14/02/2018 at 8:17 PM, Stargazer said: That's a very interesting principle you have going there! Anyone who would consider accepting a call to be an Apostle is unworthy of the office? This means that no-one should be able to accept such a call, and therefore the Quorum of the Twelve should ideally be entirely empty of Apostles? What about the person making such a call? If no one can accept a call to the Apostleship because to do so is prideful, then making such a call is intrinsically a recognition and accusation that the callee is unacceptably prideful, since only a prideful person could accept such a call, and there would be no point of issuing such a call unless the expectation was that the call would be accepted. So, Christ issued calls to fill the Twelve because He believed everyone one of them, from Peter on down to Judas were intrinsically prideful? Because surely he expected that they would accept the call. As Groucho once said “I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member"
Stargazer Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: As Groucho once said “I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member" So what are you doing here, then? If that's how you really feel, you really ought to just log off and lose the MDDB website Url. I'm sure we'd get over not seeing your bright, witty repartee ever again. 😊
Calm Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: Which part of what I asked and explained suggests I consider Apostles superhuman? When an Apostles stands and speaks at General Conference, you view their words as no different to listening to a Bishop or a temple worthy member give a talk? The part where no mortal is worthy to be one in your view apparently. They generally have significantly more experience in teaching the Gospel and exposure to a variety of Saints, but unless they make it clear they are speaking in their roles as Prophet, seer, or revelator, I see no reason to not believe that a bishop or even just s member getting up to bear their testimony at that moment can be inspired by the Spirit to share wisdom from the Lord as strongly as any who speak at General Conference. Edited March 8, 2018 by Calm 2
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