kiwi57 Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Calm said: Then why are you accusing moderators of something you are not sure is even valid? If posters don't report someone and then complain about that person not being disciplined, I just don't get it. It is like some posters who complain about the Church hiding information when they never learned about it because they never went looking for anything. Offense when unmet expectations that the right stuff will happen while refusing to contribute by doing one's part is just wrong, imo. We are all getting this service for free. Very few posters have the time to read all the threads and those who make good moderators are likely those who don't care to go over the same stuff again and again because they are able to keep some emotional distance to most topics, so I suspect by this time after a decade or more of moderating, they don't read much. I stopped being a moderator on another board because reading threads for fun became impossible. So no one should assume moderators who do this tasteless, boring, tiresome work for free for years are reading any of the posts they find horrible if it doesn't get reported. Moderators ask that people contribute to a positive atmosphere with self-control AND reporting others rather than pushing buttons in the threads...which includes in my opinion complaining about how poorly treated by moderators are those who share one's opinions or oneself. Pushing victimhood by the Church, moderators, or other posters just doesn't make one look credible and the humor if there ever was any is now completely dried up, imo...what it comes across as is more childish. I get what you're saying, Calm. I get that being a moderator is a thankless task. I really do. But my question is this: if a mod has taken the time to read a post, understand what it's saying and rule on it, then how much would it add to the burden for them to copy and paste some offending passage and say something like,"This violates rule 5a?" And another thought: if some people report what offends them more than others do (perhaps having a lower threshold for offense than others) then isn't it possible that the mods are spending time greasing squeaky wheels? Edited February 4, 2018 by kiwi57 1
Calm Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: I get what you're saying, Calm. I get that being a moderator is a thankless task. I really do. But my question is this: if a mod has taken the time to read a post, understand what it's saying and rule on it, then how much would it add to the burden for them to copy and paste some offending passage and say something like,"This violates rule 5a?" And another thought: if some people report what offends them more than others do (perhaps having a lower threshold for offense than others) then isn't it possible that the mods are spending time greasing squeaky wheels? As a former moderator of another board, I can testify it will add exponentially to the work because as soon as explanations are seen as a right, there will be those demanding attention to argue whether or not the reasons for discipline were valid. And threads will derail unless the mod spends much time keeping them on track and posters will start arguing over mistreatment by another back and forth from one thread to the next requiring the same constant supervision. The moderators here had the perfect opportunity to view a variety of moderation scenarios by watching the board where I moderated (with others, but I tended to be the most active save when I took vacations because I couldn't stand it any longer) and a couple of other popular religious forums for several years. We on my board went through a ton of permutations. The most consistent result, possibly the only consistent result imo was the more time I put into moderating, the more time posters demanded of me both through posts, and emails, and making interactions with others personal and often nasty. The moderators here learned from watching other boards. Common sense is that explanations would help keep behaviour on track. Reality is uncertainty of where you stand works better, I suspect because it keeps people cautious rather than pushing to the limit. Edited February 4, 2018 by Calm 4
Bobbieaware Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Calm said: Then why are you accusing moderators of something you are not sure is even valid? If posters don't report someone and then complain about that person not being disciplined, I just don't get it. It is like some posters who complain about the Church hiding information when they never learned about it because they never went looking for anything. Offense when unmet expectations that the right stuff will happen while refusing to contribute by doing one's part is just wrong, imo. We are all getting this service for free. Very few posters have the time to read all the threads and those who make good moderators are likely those who don't care to go over the same stuff again and again because they are able to keep some emotional distance to most topics, so I suspect by this time after a decade or more of moderating, they don't read much. I stopped being a moderator on another board because reading threads for fun became impossible. So no one should assume moderators who do this tasteless, boring, tiresome work for free for years are reading any of the posts they find horrible if it doesn't get reported. Moderators ask that people contribute to a positive atmosphere with self-control AND reporting others rather than pushing buttons in the threads...which includes in my opinion complaining about how poorly treated by moderators are those who share one's opinions or oneself. Pushing victimhood by the Church, moderators, or other posters just doesn't make one look credible and the humor if there ever was any is now completely dried up, imo...what it comes across as is more childish. After posting the comment you first responded to, I thought it wise to take stock and do some self-assessment. After some thought, I decided that if I was being truly honest with myself I’d have to admit that I couldn’t say I know for sure that the moderators are biased against the conservatively-oriented defenders of the Church. Up until today’s moments of self-reflection, I had just assumed that when some Church defenders are preemptively thread banned after posting a single completely innocent comment on a particular thread, a comment that would not be judged by any fair-minded person to be even remotely objectionable and/or controversial, that such bannings seemed to me to be prima facie evidence that at least some of the moderators are progressives who don’t want eloquent and able defenders of the Church to be able to participate on some threads, thereby skewing the natural flow of the dialogue that would have otherwise occurred if the preemptive bannings hadn’t taken place (it’s happened to me). But I now realize there may be other reasons why such thread bannings occur. One reason might be that the moderators are aware that the participation of able defenders of the Church on some threads may potentially serve to traumatize some individuals who are in a particularly delicate state of mind. I’m sorry if I didn’t come to this realization until today, but at least people can’t say I have a totally closed and inflexible mind. I don’t report what I perceive to be nasty posts because I believe that though the vast majority of my own posts fall safely within the board guidelines of proper conduct, there are those occasional instances when, after being emotionally triggered, I may veer off toward the edge of impropriety. Just as I would hope that observers wouldn’t judge the entirety of my adult life based on the relatively few times when my behavior was terrible and absolutely unacceptable, I would also hope that when an occasional post of mine seems questionable that I won’t get tattled on and then put on “limited,” and this in spite of the fact that the vast majority of my posts are purely doctrinal and not at all intentionally offensive. In other words, it’s called living by the golden rule. I also don’t report on some posters because I perceive there are so miserable and emotionally traumatized that I cut them some slack, understanding that if I were in the same situation I might feel like I want to strike out as well. Edited February 5, 2018 by Bobbieaware
Calm Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 If you don't report posts you think violate board rules, you have no right to ever complain about moderation no matter what imo.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ttribe said: The moderating whine-fest is still going? In keeping with Calm's admonition, shall I report you for board nannying? Edited February 5, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
Calm Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: In keeping with Calm's admonition, shall I report you for board nannying? Just to be honest, my stuff is as much board nannying as anyone else. I do think my experience as a former mod can be helpful, which is why I speak up at times...because I get why people want to know if they are dinged and they believe it would be helpful as a general practice, but it just doesn't actually work that way in almost all the cases I have seen...and we were trying different approaches for years and had a lot of different types of posters....seemed like eternity by the end. And it is why I will never choose to be a moderator again for anything if I can manage. It is not just about saving moderators' effort, in my opinion. I really believe based on my own experience and watching how this board has managed to survive and stay relatively balanced that a board stays more civil when everyone stays a little uncertain about their standing and therefore tend to pull back even a bit rather than thinking "I know what 'too far' is, so I will go just 'far' this time around". If the mods were really erratic or biased, that would be problematic....but we have over time about the same amount complaining about treatment from all sides while most don't complain at all, so I think the mods have achieved as perfect as it can be balance of mystery and predictability....wobbles from side to side as it goes, but that is humanity. Edited February 5, 2018 by Calm
Calm Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 35 minutes ago, ttribe said: The moderating whine-fest is still going? The thread was pretty much done, so I figured it might be more useful than annoying. I suspect I am the one extending it in this thread though.
ttribe Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: In keeping with Calm's admonition, shall I report you for board nannying? Whatever, Scott. I wasn't nannying anyone. I was expressing surprise.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 48 minutes ago, ttribe said: Whatever, Scott. I wasn't nannying anyone. I was expressing surprise. Just kidding. I won't report you.
california boy Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 Maybe this is a good time to thank the moderators for all the selfless time and effort they put into making this site work. I really appreciate their interest in keeping things on track and moderating when it is necessary. If anyone feels like they are being treated unfairly by the moderators, perhaps they should look into offering their services in helping with the task. Give the moderators a couple of weeks vacation. (And no I have no idea if they would be open to such an idea.) I am sure it would be an eyeopener. 2
Calm Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 I don't think they could without giving access to people's private info, PMS, etc. unless it is set up very differently from the two boards I was moderator for.
Calm Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 9 hours ago, kiwi57 said: I get what you're saying, Calm. I get that being a moderator is a thankless task. I really do. But my question is this: if a mod has taken the time to read a post, understand what it's saying and rule on it, then how much would it add to the burden for them to copy and paste some offending passage and say something like,"This violates rule 5a?" And another thought: if some people report what offends them more than others do (perhaps having a lower threshold for offense than others) then isn't it possible that the mods are spending time greasing squeaky wheels? I should mention on zlmb you were one of the few posters who never questioned a ruling once made as far as I can remember. If you did, it was an exception to the rule for you. Unfortunately, your response was uncommon enough that it still stands out for me over a decade since I last moderated anything there. I can understand why you assume that wouldn't make more work to post once a ruling was made, because you didn't. Others did make work though, enough so it got to where post ruling work is what stands out in my memory and not just finding the stuff and dealing with it the first time through. There were some I had to threaten with banning and a few who did get banned before they would drop it.
kiwi57 Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 5 hours ago, ttribe said: Whatever, Scott. I wasn't nannying anyone. I was expressing surprise. Yes, "whine-fest" is obviously nothing but an expression of surprise. 1
Bobbieaware Posted February 5, 2018 Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Calm said: If you don't report posts you think violate board rules, you have no right to ever complain about moderation no matter what imo. After my posts on this thread from yesterday, I believe I’ve said everything I want to say about the moderators, so it’s unlikely I’ll ever again publicly chime in on the subject. So because I won’t again engage in publically critiquing the moderators, I hope my habit of not reporting hard-hitting posts will no longer be viewed as an inconsistency on my part. Edited February 5, 2018 by Bobbieaware
ttribe Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 15 hours ago, kiwi57 said: Yes, "whine-fest" is obviously nothing but an expression of surprise. What can I say? I express surprise with a bit of flair.
kiwi57 Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 8 hours ago, ttribe said: What can I say? I express surprise with a bit of flair. That's an unusual way to spell "snark."
kiwi57 Posted February 7, 2018 Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 2:14 PM, Calm said: If you don't report posts you think violate board rules, you have no right to ever complain about moderation no matter what imo. Well Cal, you've convinced me. I was one of those who was raised on the idea that if you have a problem with someone, you don't complain to those in authority, but sort it out yourself. Clearly that doesn't make the mods' job any easier. It probably also means that those who love to virtue-signal by telling everyone how offended they are at every opportunity are going to get an inordinate amount of the moderators' attention, to the detriment of those who don't share that particular style of virtue. So I'll try it your way. 2
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46297476&nid=1010&title=study-shows-states-where-disease-and-death-are-highest-utahs-risk-rising Utah is listed with the highest suicide rate. I wonder how many are going to say it has to do with the high altitude?
Calm Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Most likely a combination of easy access to guns, high nonHispanic white population (highest suicide risk), increase in opioid abuse, and typical larger rural/semirural areas (higher suicide rates especially coupled with firearms). There is also correlation with mountain states being higher in suicides, but they don't know why yet: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide.shtml Otoh, we do pretty well with overall death rate: https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterface.jsp Edited April 13, 2018 by Calm 1
MormonMason Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 11:01 AM, Jeanne said: Prayerfully seek repentance for the lives that have been lost. Then inquire of God as to a interpretation of what is meant by family..what is it? The Church already knows the definition of a family and marriage as ordained of God. It's in the scriptures, in the direct teaching of Jesus Christ himself (he was very specific to use the words male and female), and afterwards reaffirmed in the Proclamation on the Family. There is nothing further to enquire about that hasn't already been done. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 12:59 PM, JulieM said: Good, I’m glad we agree that acceptions are made. Sorry if I misunderstood. Exceptions, not “acceptions”.
JulieM Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Exceptions, not “acceptions”. Yeah, I know. Old post. You're a little slow at being the grammar/spelling police this time 1
Jeanne Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, JulieM said: Yeah, I know. Old post. You're a little slow at being the grammar/spelling police this time Does Scott go back many moons to correct our posts??? How scary is that?
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