Pres. Uchtdorf at first session: the g and s building

[Kenngo1969]

12 minutes ago, PeterPear said:

Oh my!

Are we allowed to chastise a member who's a "Contributor" with 7,225 posts and 4,654 green-approval belly stars, without getting banned ourselves?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJUdhhBRIg

Chastise away!  I can take it.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

 

I had a really hard time with Nephi for awhile. Sometimes he seemed very self righteous etc. Then one day I came across a passage (don't remember which one) that showed me just how much he loved his family. I realized that sometimes he might have erred in his behavior, but he really wanted the best for those he loved so he was trying his best to help them get back to Heavenly Father.

I have seen this great love in President Uchtdorf. He is unjudging and has this great humor. I think that if you look at these things and try to feel God's love for you that you will find some from President Uchtdorf despite some things he may not have communicated well.

Perhaps one thing to do rather that assuming the analogy was directed at you and being unhappy about it would be to ask, "Lord, is it I?" If it is not then you need not worry.  If it is then the you can ask the Lord if you need to change or not and what you need to do if you need to change.  

Well stated -- except that I think President Uchtdorf communicated very well.

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Bluebell, this is hard for me to believe! But I know you are not a liar. But still amazes me you didn't know it was the General Conference Women's session yesterday.

I also tuned in late because I went to a movie and caught Elder Uchtdorf's talk that was almost over. I wasn't happy that he made the analogy with the tree of life and the people laughing in the big and spacious building, it seemed he was making an analogy directed to members such as me, minus the laughing outsiders but those that turn away from the tree because of doubt. Or atleast that's how I took it. 

Oh, i knew it was GC's women's conference yesterday, but I honestly forgot about it!  Saturday is always date night at my house, and I went about planning date night activities and didn't remember about conference until 8 that night when i checked Facebook and a friend said something about it.  Thank goodness you can watch it after the fact.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

A couple of years ago, Scott started a thread that was extremely complimentary and was devoted specifically to Sister Oscarson's talk (I don't recall, but I think it was in a General Session), but don't let that fool you, Juliann.  He's just trying to thwart your neverending quest to stamp out misogyny wherever it may be found (and even in many places where it may not be found).  I've never met Scott in real life, but I have it on good authority that he's nothing but a misogynistic pig.  

Actually, I'm a despicable duck. See my avatar.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Oh, i knew it was GC's women's conference yesterday, but I honestly forgot about it!  Saturday is always date night at my house, and I went about planning date night activities and didn't remember about conference until 8 that night when i checked Facebook and a friend said something about it.  Thank goodness you can watch it after the fact.

Good for you for observing date night.

Your husband should have helped you remember, though.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

 

I had a really hard time with Nephi for awhile. Sometimes he seemed very self righteous etc. Then one day I came across a passage (don't remember which one) that showed me just how much he loved his family. I realized that sometimes he might have erred in his behavior, but he really wanted the best for those he loved so he was trying his best to help them get back to Heavenly Father.

I have seen this great love in President Uchtdorf. He is unjudging and has this great humor. I think that if you look at these things and try to feel God's love for you that you will find some from President Uchtdorf despite some things he may not have communicated well.

Perhaps one thing to do rather that assuming the analogy was directed at you and being unhappy about it would be to ask, "Lord, is it I?" If it is not then you need not worry.  If it is then the you can ask the Lord if you need to change or not and what you need to do if you need to change.  

This is what I typically did years ago as an older never-married male in the Church when there would be the occasional general conference talk chastising single men for not having their priorities right.

[Scott Lloyd]

21 hours ago, Rivers said:

I typically don't watch any of the Women's session since I am not a woman.  But I never miss a chance to hear the sliver fox speak. 

I like what he said about the dangers of always thinking of yourself as a victim. 

Now I must read the talk in its entirety, so I can get that part.

Don't know if he drew the connection, but I think that goes hand-in-hand with the WINR mentality (see Kenngo's post).

Edited September 25, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Kenngo1969]

55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Actually, I'm a dispicable duck. See my avatar.

You're deth-pic-able!  Jutht deth-pic-able!  

[Atheist Mormon]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think Juliann does raise a valid point, though. If we are going to discuss the women's session, we should highlight women speakers. 

Unfortunately there's a fundamental flaw in this process which is not the creation of anybody alive. Back then men decided to preside over everything and now times changed but you cannot discard important doctrines like that even though "Ordain Women" gave up a good fight.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Good for you for observing date night.

Your husband should have helped you remember, though.

My husband has been working 14 hour weekdays and 6+ hour weekends for the last two weeks.  He works from home, which is a huge blessing, but between his job, helping out the ward members with their vehicle troubles, and his calling in the Elder's quorum, he hasn't had more than an hour at a time to himself all week.  He was so ready for a break Saturday night (he had specifically told his boss he wouldn't be available to answer emails during that time) that the women's conference didn't cross his mind either.  As it was, we were home from date night at 8 and he went right back to work until 11 (so that he hopefully wouldn't have to do any work on Sunday).

 

[juliann]

19 hours ago, Rivers said:

I typically don't watch any of the Women's session since I am not a woman.  But I never miss a chance to hear the sliver fox speak. 

I like what he said about the dangers of always thinking of yourself as a victim. 

Why would you not watch the first session of conference? What does not being a woman have to do with it? I have watched the men's session ever since it was televised. 

[Scott Lloyd]

58 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My husband has been working 14 hour weekdays and 6+ hour weekends for the last two weeks.  He works from home, which is a huge blessing, but between his job, helping out the ward members with their vehicle troubles, and his calling in the Elder's quorum, he hasn't had more than an hour at a time to himself all week.  He was so ready for a break Saturday night (he had specifically told his boss he wouldn't be available to answer emails during that time) that the women's conference didn't cross his mind either.  As it was, we were home from date night at 8 and he went right back to work until 11 (so that he hopefully wouldn't have to do any work on Sunday).

 

Well good for him too!

[Scott Lloyd]

38 minutes ago, juliann said:

Why would you not watch the first session of conference? What does not being a woman have to do with it? I have watched the men's session ever since it was televised. 

I very much agree.

But forming a good habit can take some time -- as I showed last night by forgetting to tune in until the session was almost over.

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I very much agree.

But forming a good habit can take some time -- as I showed last night by forgetting to tune in until the session was almost over.

But you were always going to watch it online anyway and not attend, so timing doesn't really matter and we forgive you.

Women's sessions is online now for anyone who missed it, btw.  No transcripts yet though.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Calm

[rockpond]

I heard that Sister Jones (Primary President) spoke on the divinity of the soul on Saturday evening after having buried her son the day before.  I imagine that she might have some touching thoughts after having passed through such a trial.  I was not tuning in as I was home with my other kids while my wife and oldest daughter attended with the stake but I look forward to listening to her when her message is published online.

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I heard that Sister Jones (Primary President) spoke on the divinity of the soul on Saturday evening after having buried her son the day before.  I imagine that she might have some touching thoughts after having passed through such a trial.  I was not tuning in as I was home with my other kids while my wife and oldest daughter attended with the stake but I look forward to listening to her when her message is published online.

Wow...listening to the conference this afternoon..but wow..this is the measure of a faithful woman...in any religion.

[sheilauk]

On 24/09/2017 at 2:24 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm not acquainted with the hymn the women's chorus sang in closing, but I really like it. Anyone know the name of it and where a copy might be found?

 

 

On 24/09/2017 at 5:01 AM, Maidservant said:

I thought the song was hymn 154, but maybe not?  What was the main lyric?  (I heard it but it's already left me, lol).

According to another site, the hymn was 155, we have partaken of thy love. 

Eta - the church website is showing it as this hymn too (155).

Edited September 25, 2017 by sheilauk

[hope_for_things]

On 9/23/2017 at 7:18 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf is giving an important address at the first session (women's session) of general conference right now.

He is referring to Lehi's dream and speaking specifically about the great and spacious building in that dream, applying it to those who doubt, let go of the iron rod, wander away from the path and even join those in the building in their mocking and laughing at those who are still on the path.

"Choosing the path of discipleship will lead to the fulfillment of your divine nature."

I look forward to reading and absorbing the text of this talk at my leisure.

President Uchtdorf has become a favorite of mine among the Brethren.

Thanks for pointing this talk out, I love Elder Uchtdorf, he is hands down my favorite of the fifteen right now.   I listened to the talk, and I liked quite a bit of it.  I think his commentary on the G&S building needs to be looked at within the context of his earlier discussion in the talk about how we often exclude others who are in different groups because of how we perceive them as different than us.  

I think we find ourselves in the G&S building whenever we seek to make fun of other groups without actually looking at their perspectives and seeking to be charitable towards them.  This would place many orthodox members in the G&S building as I often find members who don't seek to understand the perspectives of various groups like the LGBT community or Ordain Women or Black lives Matter or Secular Humanists, or Atheists, making fun of these groups and having scorn for them precisely without attempting to empathize or understand those groups.  Of course those groups are guilty of this same G&S building mentality whenever they seek to make fun of religions without attempting to empathize or understand the perspectives of people within that faith.  

The G&S building metaphor is one that speaks to me as a call for the core principles of the gospel.  The call to hold to the iron rod is not a call to religious orthodoxy, dogma or avoiding doubt in religion.  Its a call to the principles of love, charity, grace, service, understanding and inclusiveness.  The kind of doubt we should avoid is a doubt that those principles will work when they are employed.  Whenever we exercise those principles in our lives we are holding to the rod of iron.  Whenever we choose to put our own pride and selfishness above these principles, then we belong in the G&S building.  

[rockpond]

6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Thanks for pointing this talk out, I love Elder Uchtdorf, he is hands down my favorite of the fifteen right now.   I listened to the talk, and I liked quite a bit of it.  I think his commentary on the G&S building needs to be looked at within the context of his earlier discussion in the talk about how we often exclude others who are in different groups because of how we perceive them as different than us.  

I think we find ourselves in the G&S building whenever we seek to make fun of other groups without actually looking at their perspectives and seeking to be charitable towards them.  This would place many orthodox members in the G&S building as I often find members who don't seek to understand the perspectives of various groups like the LGBT community or Ordain Women or Black lives Matter or Secular Humanists, or Atheists, making fun of these groups and having scorn for them precisely without attempting to empathize or understand those groups.  Of course those groups are guilty of this same G&S building mentality whenever they seek to make fun of religions without attempting to empathize or understand the perspectives of people within that faith.  

The G&S building metaphor is one that speaks to me as a call for the core principles of the gospel.  The call to hold to the iron rod is not a call to religious orthodoxy, dogma or avoiding doubt in religion.  Its a call to the principles of love, charity, grace, service, understanding and inclusiveness.  The kind of doubt we should avoid is a doubt that those principles will work when they are employed.  Whenever we exercise those principles in our lives we are holding to the rod of iron.  Whenever we choose to put our own pride and selfishness above these principles, then we belong in the G&S building.  

Such a great point!  To assume that the parable is as flat as Iron Rod = active, faithful Mormons while the G&S Building = everyone else is a shallow, primary level approach.

Amen.

[Scott Lloyd]

46 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

 

According to another site, the hymn was 155, we have partaken of thy love. 

Eta - the church website is showing it as this hymn too (155).

Yes, I definitely recognize the words from 155 now. Thanks!

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Such a great point!  To assume that the parable is as flat as Iron Rod = active, faithful Mormons while the G&S Building = everyone else is a shallow, primary level approach.

Amen.

Thanks Rockpond.  Its easy to take a confirmation bias perspective to all kinds of metaphors.  I find that happening all the time and I try to stop myself from doing it.  What is the other side saying that I can consider has some value or validity from another vantage point.  Its easy to just paint those who we typically disagree with as the enemy.  Those people are the ones in the G&S building, not me.  Everyone thinks they're the ones holding to the Iron Rod, but if that were the case then who are the people in the G&S building, somebody must be in there.  Well its never yourself, its always everyone else.  We have to try and be more self reflective.  When am I the person in the G&S building.  When are our church leaders the ones in the G&S building, when are our politicians or even our hero's in the G&S building.

[Scott Lloyd]

29 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Thanks for pointing this talk out, I love Elder Uchtdorf, he is hands down my favorite of the fifteen right now.   I listened to the talk, and I liked quite a bit of it.  I think his commentary on the G&S building needs to be looked at within the context of his earlier discussion in the talk about how we often exclude others who are in different groups because of how we perceive them as different than us.  

I think we find ourselves in the G&S building whenever we seek to make fun of other groups without actually looking at their perspectives and seeking to be charitable towards them.  This would place many orthodox members in the G&S building as I often find members who don't seek to understand the perspectives of various groups like the LGBT community or Ordain Women or Black lives Matter or Secular Humanists, or Atheists, making fun of these groups and having scorn for them precisely without attempting to empathize or understand those groups.  Of course those groups are guilty of this same G&S building mentality whenever they seek to make fun of religions without attempting to empathize or understand the perspectives of people within that faith.  

The G&S building metaphor is one that speaks to me as a call for the core principles of the gospel.  The call to hold to the iron rod is not a call to religious orthodoxy, dogma or avoiding doubt in religion.  Its a call to the principles of love, charity, grace, service, understanding and inclusiveness.  The kind of doubt we should avoid is a doubt that those principles will work when they are employed.  Whenever we exercise those principles in our lives we are holding to the rod of iron.  Whenever we choose to put our own pride and selfishness above these principles, then we belong in the G&S building.  

 

18 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Such a great point!  To assume that the parable is as flat as Iron Rod = active, faithful Mormons while the G&S Building = everyone else is a shallow, primary level approach.

Amen.

Hmm.

I'd say that "orthodox members" who are uncharitable to others and those who have allowed their doubts to lead them away from true principles in the manner that President Uchtdorf described are both examples of individuals who have let go of the iron rod and are wandering in forbidden paths, if not having joined those who are in the great and spacious building.

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Hmm.

I'd say that "orthodox members" who are uncharitable to others and those who have allowed their doubts to lead them away from true principles in the manner that President Uchtdorf described are both examples of individuals who have let go of the iron rod and are wandering in forbidden paths, if not having joined those who are in the great and spacious building.

Isn't that what Hope_For_Things described?

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

Hmm.

I'd say that "orthodox members" who are uncharitable to others and those who have allowed their doubts to lead them away from true principles in the manner that President Uchtdorf described are both examples of individuals who have let go of the iron rod and are wandering in forbidden paths, if not having joined those who are in the great and spacious building.

In my view...those who are just hanging on to the rod have far greater strength and perhaps more knowledge and  honesty than those who hold on with a grip..and blindfolds.

[hope_for_things]

10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Isn't that what Hope_For_Things described?

Thats what I was thinking too, sounds like Scott agrees with me on this one, which I will be happy to note is a rare thing.    Unless not, in which case maybe he can clarify where he disagrees.