snowflake Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible?
CV75 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? I haven't applied it to the Bible. I don't think it is a legitimate test for the Bible as a whole, only particular biblical teachings. My thinking is as follows (in no particular order): "These things" refer specifically to "these records" which Moroni hid up, a portion of which were translated by Joseph Smith. So the promise pertains to "these things." Remembering "how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things" might overlap with teachings from the Bible but "these records" are sufficient to consider them also. I think the promise already accepts the "old testament" record of the Jews as true, especially those portions cited in "these records," but also acknowledges that many plain and precious parts will have been removed from the "new testament" gospel of the Lamb by the time "these records" are translated, and we come across the promise. I think verses 5-6 could be applied to particular teachings of the Bible as a subset of "all things": "And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is." Whatever was corrupted to the point of being not good, just or true would deny the Christ, preventing us from knowing "that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost..." The corruptions are a form of denying the power of God (verse 7).
Marginal Gains Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) Here’s the problem with Moroni’s promise - what if you follow the process and get confirmation that the Book of Mormon isn’t true? Mormoni’s promise isn’t a legitimate test for the Book of Mormon. Imagine applying the methodology to the truthfulness of something else, say a Bernie Madoff prospectus. I.e. Bernie Madoff is telling you his investment scheme is true and you should invest in it and if you approach the test properly it will confirm it as such. But if you don‘t get confirmation, it’s because you didn’t do it right. Would you consider it a legitimate way to decide a financial investment - why or why not? 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. Edited September 1, 2017 by Marginal Gains
Atheist Mormon Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 51 minutes ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? Yes I did, the promise is exactly what Jesus promised "You can move Mountains". It doesn't work 1
snowflake Posted September 1, 2017 Author Posted September 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Here’s the problem with Moroni’s promise - what if you follow the process and get confirmation that the Book of Mormon isn’t true? Did this happen to you also? What about the Bible did you try the test on it?
Marginal Gains Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, snowflake said: Did this happen to you also? What about the Bible did you try the test on it? The Bible is a collection of Iron Age blogs written by people with a wider agenda and who it appears had no first hand experience of the events about which they were writing. In terms of your questions - Yes, No - didn’t see the point. Edited September 1, 2017 by Marginal Gains
Popular Post Maidservant Posted September 1, 2017 Popular Post Posted September 1, 2017 No, not the Bible. But I have done so for Islam, whether or not I should become Muslim. I tried the best I could to free myself of all pre-conceived notions and humble myself so that I could truly receive direction. That was quite scary actually, a little bit of free fall. Nevertheless I expected to receive a "no" answer; and I did NOT get a "no" answer. The answer I received was: "You choose." The implication was that I understood enough about the pathway, implications, consequences of each path (I have been LDS all my life, and I have taken opportunity to study Islam deeply), and that I would know of myself what I wanted. If I chose one way or the other, there would be blessings and challenges to either path. I have remained LDS, with a healthy dose of Islam on the side :). Actually I tap into many faith and knowledge traditions, not only those two. I consider my religion to be "breathing, being alive, being a person". 6
DJBrown Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said: Here’s the problem with Moroni’s promise - what if you follow the process and get confirmation that the Book of Mormon isn’t true? Mormoni’s promise isn’t a legitimate test for the Book of Mormon. Imagine applying the methodology to the truthfulness of something else, say a Bernie Madoff prospectus. I.e. Bernie Madoff is telling you his investment scheme is true and you should invest in it and if you approach the test properly it will confirm it as such. But if you don‘t get confirmation, it’s because you didn’t do it right. Would you consider it a legitimate way to decide a financial investment - why or why not? 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Book of Mormon claims that it is a volume of scripture prepared by God and His prophets for the last days. I don't think Bernie Madoff has made similar claims. Not all truths are of the same value. Edited September 1, 2017 by DJBrown 3
Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted September 1, 2017 Popular Post Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? As with James 1:5-6 and Moroni 10:5-7, it is always possible to take the measure of any Scripture or teaching by inquiring of the Lord. One may also test holy claims via Alma 32. These are not limited promises. 6
Robert F. Smith Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said: Here’s the problem with Moroni’s promise - what if you follow the process and get confirmation that the Book of Mormon isn’t true? ............................................................. You should follow that message or prompting. What else could you do? 2
Robert F. Smith Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: The Bible is a collection of Iron Age blogs written by people with a wider agenda and who it appears had no first hand experience of the events about which they were writing. ......................................................... This description does not comport with independent scholarship.
Marginal Gains Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 32 minutes ago, DJBrown said: The Book of Mormon claims that it is a volume of scripture prepared by God and His prophets for the last days. I don't think Bernie Madoff has made similar claims. Not all truths are of the same value. Bernie Madoff claimed that his investment scheme was legitimate. Would you simply take his word for it because you felt moved to? The bigger the claim, the bigger the supporting evidence needs to be. I’d want something a little more than a good feeling before I’d stake my eternity on it.
The Nehor Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Yes I did, the promise is exactly what Jesus promised "You can move Mountains". It doesn't work Come out hiking with me one weekend and I will show otherwise. 1
The Nehor Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Bernie Madoff claimed that his investment scheme was legitimate. Would you simply take his word for it because you felt moved to? The bigger the claim, the bigger the supporting evidence needs to be. I’d want something a little more than a good feeling before I’d stake my eternity on it. So would I and I got more.
Marginal Gains Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, The Nehor said: So would I and I got more. What ‘more’ did you get?
Guest Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? Moroni's promise is that we (all) will come to know the truth of all things.
The Nehor Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: What ‘more’ did you get? A rewards card. For every five divine confirmations I get I also receive a free smoothie. 2
Glenn101 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: Here’s the problem with Moroni’s promise - what if you follow the process and get confirmation that the Book of Mormon isn’t true? Mormoni’s promise isn’t a legitimate test for the Book of Mormon. Imagine applying the methodology to the truthfulness of something else, say a Bernie Madoff prospectus. I.e. Bernie Madoff is telling you his investment scheme is true and you should invest in it and if you approach the test properly it will confirm it as such. But if you don‘t get confirmation, it’s because you didn’t do it right. Would you consider it a legitimate way to decide a financial investment - why or why not? Moroni did not promise us that we would obtain a testimony of anything but the spiritual things of which he was speaking. There are many people that have not been able to receive that answer for whatever reason. Then, there are those who have received such an answer. I count myself as one of those who have and it has landed me in the Heber J. Grant camp of believers. Glenn 2
cdowis Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said: Bernie Madoff claimed that his investment scheme was legitimate. Would you simply take his word for it because you felt moved to? I don't think I can have a serious discussion when you conflate an investment prospectus with a book of scripture. We inhabit two different realities. The bigger the claim, the bigger the supporting evidence needs to be. I’d want something a little more than a good feeling before I’d stake my eternity on it. It is not "just a feeling" Edited September 1, 2017 by cdowis
JLHPROF Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 4 hours ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? To the Bible specifically - no. To the Christ of the gospels - yes. Quote Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? Moroni's promise is a legitimate test for all areas of the gospel. The Holy Ghost can make known the truth of ALL things. That includes the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Church today, Joseph Smith's mission, the revelations in the D&C, and so on and so forth. 2
DJBrown Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: Bernie Madoff claimed that his investment scheme was legitimate. Would you simply take his word for it because you felt moved to? The bigger the claim, the bigger the supporting evidence needs to be. I’d want something a little more than a good feeling before I’d stake my eternity on it. And what if eternity is based upon our ability and willingness to communicate and act based upon messages sent through spirit? 1
RevTestament Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Yes I did, the promise is exactly what Jesus promised "You can move Mountains". It doesn't work Mountains are "theologies" or churches of men, and one can move these - ie Luther, Joseph Smith, etc.
RevTestament Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 5 hours ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? If the BoM is true, then the Revelation of John must be true, since in Ether, Yeshua says it will open as a scroll. Further, the BoM does not disaffirm the English Bible. It mentions it, quotes it, and gives reason to believe the Bible. The Bible also gives reason to believe the BoM in Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah.
bluebell Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 5 hours ago, snowflake said: Has anyone out there applied Moroni's Promise to the Bible and what was your response? Also, is Moroni's Promise a legitimate test for the Bible? I never used it to test the Bible, but I think that praying to ask God whether something teaches His gospel is always a legitimate option. I never did it with the bible because I can't conceive of anyway for the BOM to be true but the Bible not to be. The BOM teaches the same things the bible teaches, and quotes it from time to time. 3
snowflake Posted September 1, 2017 Author Posted September 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, RevTestament said: If the BoM is true, then the Revelation of John must be true, since in Ether, Yeshua says it will open as a scroll. Further, the BoM does not disaffirm the English Bible. It mentions it, quotes it, and gives reason to believe the Bible. The Bible also gives reason to believe the BoM in Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah. The BOM quotes the bible so much that many scholars go as far as to say Joseph plagiarized the Bible.
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