Church statement on Charlottesville, Virginia

[clarkgoble]

Glad the Church did this and I agree people involved at minimum ought have an interview with their Bishop or Stake President. Sad but not surprised the usual alt-right figures are saying the same sort of thing.

 

 

[deli_llama]

10 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Glad the Church did this and I agree people involved at minimum ought have an interview with their Bishop or Stake President. Sad but not surprised the usual alt-right figures are saying the same sort of thing.

 

 

I don't have twitter, may I ask please, is that from an LDS person's account?  Because if so, wow, just wow. 

[Duncan]

37 minutes ago, deli_llama said:

And @Thinking "However, in celebrating my heritage I don't think that Swedes are somehow superior to others. It is the feeling of superiority that differentiates racists from non-racists."

I have more than once attended a huge celebration of white heritage. All I heard over and over, and over again, was how much more awesome these people were compared to the rest of the world. They were mightier, better looking, braver, smarter (according to them they invented and saved the modern world), harder working, and stronger. They even tossed logs and threw hammers and huge stones to prove it. I have, however, never heard of anyone one calling anyone else a racist for attending the Highland Games. 

These folks weren't attending some highland games, the night before they lit torches and wallowed in hate. There are lots of ways we celebrate aspects of white culture that don't end up being seen as racist. Days of 47 (there is a chance I will take grief for that...), Oktoberfest, and Lutefisk Festivals. 

I don't see those celebrating white culture as so much as Mormons coming to Utah in 1847 who happened to be white or My heritage, German drinking and eating sauerkraut(YUCK) and drinking and drinking and to finish off the evening, more drinking! So Oktoberfest is a drinkfest! I only go to eat the pastries

[The Nehor]

28 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Glad the Church did this and I agree people involved at minimum ought have an interview with their Bishop or Stake President. Sad but not surprised the usual alt-right figures are saying the same sort of thing.

 

 

 

 

[deli_llama]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't see those celebrating white culture as so much as Mormons coming to Utah in 1847 who happened to be white or My heritage, German drinking and eating sauerkraut(YUCK) and drinking and drinking and to finish off the evening, more drinking! So Oktoberfest is a drinkfest! I only go to eat the pastries

An aspect of white cu... eh never mind. Now that I think about it, this whole nation needs a good solid month or two of Oktoberfest, not so much for the booze, but we sure could use the hops flowing through our veins. 

[clarkgoble]

39 minutes ago, deli_llama said:

I don't have twitter, may I ask please, is that from an LDS person's account?  Because if so, wow, just wow. 

Yes, she's an alt-right person saying all sorts of stuff. Her husband reportedly had been locked up in jail for drug dealing as well. Which makes it even weirder as she portrays her self as this ideal family.

[deli_llama]

4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Yes, she's an alt-right person saying all sorts of stuff. Her husband reportedly had been locked up in jail for drug dealing as well. Which makes it even weirder as she portrays her self as this ideal family.

Thanks sir. I appreciate you filling me in. Fascinating. 

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Yes, she's an alt-right person saying all sorts of stuff. Her husband reportedly had been locked up in jail for drug dealing as well. Which makes it even weirder as she portrays her self as this ideal family.

Yep, sounds like your bog-standard Aryan princess just with LDS stuff sadly mixed in. If she lives in a trailer park too she wins Nazi bingo.

It really isn't surprising. Racism is often most embraced by those who really need someone to be inferior to them and their own life status makes finding these people difficult. Racism is the easy way out. Watching daytime television is another way to make one comfortable in a degenerate lifestyle by finding those rare gems even more messed up then you are.

Edit: deleted the comment about her looks. While true she fits the mold in that pic it was a little too mean even for me the way I said it.

Edited August 14, 2017 by The Nehor

[Gray]

That something like this would happen is disturbing, but we've seen the predictable trajectory, accelerating since November. The rise of the Alt Reich has been fast - may their downfall be much faster.

[stemelbow]

11 hours ago, Dexter Eli said:

So was Brigham Young a true disciple of Christ? 

I know the sensitive folks are upset at this type of reasoning but I think it's a fair question.  We give those of the past a pass because they were influenced by the larger culture, I suppose.  But if someone is a man of God, you would think God would correct their egregious errors--that's why we don't call murderers and rapists men of God, or we should not.  Else we could say no one is a man of God, because if we all lived in the world of privilege quite like BY we might also have felt similarly regarding race.  We simply couldn't see well enough, perhaps.  Maybe that also means we're doing what BY today in other ways--we're simply unable to see clear enough.  Either that, or BY's views on race were despicable and he should be held accountable for his failure to lift up people trying to keep others down. 

[Johnnie Cake]

12 hours ago, bsjkki said:

: "No man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ." 

I'm actually surprised that the church PR Newsroom chose to use these words...an easy google search will produce a long list of past LDS General Authorities who under this standard would NOT be considered disciple's of Christ.

While I applaud the church for making this statement, until they publically apologize for their past racist history and the racist comments of their past leaders...comments like this one just released seem disingenuous to say the least.

[The Nehor]

45 minutes ago, Gray said:

That something like this would happen is disturbing, but we've seen the predictable trajectory, accelerating since November. The rise of the Alt Reich has been fast - may their downfall be much faster.

I really hope this is a last gasp of the scum of the Baby Boomer generation trying to haul us backward to the fabled golden age fascist regimes live for. I am not optimistic but I hope.

Unsurprisingly our President still refuses to condemn his racist base and instead tweeted out some false equivalency trash about all sides needing to behave as if all sides are equally culpable.

[Bernard Gui]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I used to be a member of the a National Education Association.  Does that count?

[BlueDreams]

13 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The church released this statement on Charlottesville, Virginia.  http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-statement-charlottesville-virginia  

It is with great sadness and deep concern that we view the violence, conflict and tragedy of recent days in Charlottesville, Virginia. People of any faith, or of no faith at all, should be troubled by the increase of intolerance in both words and actions that we see everywhere.

More than a decade ago, the late Church President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008) addressed the topic of racism when speaking to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He powerfully and clearly taught this principle: "No man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ." For members of the Church, we reaffirm that teaching today and the Savior's admonition to love our neighbor.

Our prayers are with those who are suffering because of this intolerance and hatred. We pray for peace and for understanding. Above all, we pray that we may treat one another with greater kindness, compassion and goodness

I also read this blog post by Daniel Peterson.  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2017/08/beyond-repulsive-far-beyond.html

I don’t believe in making politics an issue at Church, nor in excommunicating otherwise faithful members over their political views.  To me, however, neo-Nazism of the sort that seems to be on display in the comments and images above is deeply troubling.  If I were the local leader of someone espousing such views, I would be very concerned.  And, candidly, I would be at least thinking about an eventual disciplinary council.
Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2017/08/beyond-repulsive-far-beyond.html#js4jMe2c1CHjkvX5.99

I know this is probably a little unexpected. But I would actually hope for mercy and that they remain in the church. Minus the ones in groups explicitly condoning violence. There are shades of racism in and outside the church. I've mentioned that my grandmother still hold racist beliefs. The reason that I want them in the church is because it's one of the few places they may have a chance to directly bump shoulders with good clean folk of all colors as a living contradiction to their thoughts. Though it may not entirely remove their racism, there is still hope that the living contradictions to their ideology may start to soften them and alter course. Some of the best ways to combat racism is positive exposure.  

At some point I think church discipline or limitations should be placed when it becomes apparent that they're supporting groups that promote violence or they begin to promote their breed of racism in church as gospel truth. 

 

As for the violent incident itself....I wish I can say I find it surprising. I don't. The national rhetoric surrounding a certain orange american have had underpinnings that have been galvanizing this viewpoint sense the literal beginning of his run. It was a pretty thin line between Make America Great Again and Make America White Again. I know this is overtly political. But I don't care. I'm tired of the blind spots in our social psyche that are enabling extremism and this neo repackaged racism that paints white people as the victims and the alt-right concerned vanguards of protecting their "endangered" group.  

 

With luv,

BD

[The Nehor]

28 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I used to be a member of the a National Education Association.  Does that count?

Yes, education is anathema to the LDS faith. I hope you have repented of your heresy.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I really hope this is a last gasp of the scum of the Baby Boomer generation trying to haul us backward to the fabled golden age fascist regimes live for. I am not optimistic but I hope.

I'm not sure I understand. The combatants on both sides appear to be of mixed ages, with the majority looking like grandchildren and great-grand-children of Baby Boomers.The Baby Boomers are the ones who were killed and maimed in the millions to throw down fascism. That's not to say that racism ceased when it's most virulent American, Asian, and European forms were crushed militarily in the Civil War and WW 2. The struggle to remove it from the human heart will always be with  us. Ethnic gangs and terrorism are the most virulent expressions of racism among other racial and ethnic groups today.

What's interesting to me is that the groups mixing it up in the streets are the same ones that clashed in Europe in the 1930s...the various wings of fascists, the communists, and the anarchists. In my neck of the woods, it's the black-clad and masked anarchists and communists that are doing the violence. Sooner or later someone will die at one of their shindigs. 

Punishing people socially, politically, or religiously for their thoughts is venturing into very dangerous territory, IMO.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Glenn101]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am in favor of protecting this kind of speech. I am also in favor of social ostracism, boycotts, public humiliation, and all other legal forms of punishing people socially and economically (but not legally) for being colossal putzes.

I am afraid I part opinions with you here. Social ostracism and public humiliation will only inflame the recipients more, cause them to close ranks even more, and lead to even more violence. But I wish I had some better solutions to suggest. I am at a loss as to how to deal with this collectively.

Glenn

[Bernard Gui]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, education is anathema to the LDS faith. I hope you have repented of your heresy.

If that's what the NEA were about I would tend to agree. I always brought it up in temple recommend interviews (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) but it never became an impediment. On the other hand, they did extract my money (against my will) that they used for purposes contrary to the gospel and teachings of the Church. Now that I'm retired from teaching, I try to keep myself a safe distance away from them.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Jeanne]

Nehor...I kind of feel bad that you lump us baby boomers as such pain in the butts..  Just sayin'...

[Glenn101]

32 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

As for the violent incident itself....I wish I can say I find it surprising. I don't. The national rhetoric surrounding a certain orange american have had underpinnings that have been galvanizing this viewpoint sense the literal beginning of his run. It was a pretty thin line between Make America Great Again and Make America White Again. I know this is overtly political. But I don't care. I'm tired of the blind spots in our social psyche that are enabling extremism and this neo repackaged racism that paints white people as the victims and the alt-right concerned vanguards of protecting their "endangered" group.  

 

I can see that you are deeply upset about this in the wake of a long string of violent incidents in recent and past history, else you would never have referred to anyone as an "orange american." I mostly agree with the sentiments of your post. But we really all need to tone down the rhetoric, stop throwing labels at each other.Liberal, conservative, alt-left, alt-right have become pejorative terms. Social media has become a seething mass of hateful speech with so many intolerant of anything that does not conform to their own ideas.   I wish I could provide a concrete suggestion as to how to change the rhetoric nationally. I don't but I can start with myself.

Glenn

[Gray]

My favorite meme to come out of this mess:

 

[Glenn101]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Nehor...I kind of feel bad that you lump us baby boomers as such pain in the butts..  Just sayin'...

Of course. Every generation has to blame some other generation for their own failings. It is only human nature. But I wish they would wait until we be gone as we are getting too long in the tooth and feeble minded to really defend ourselves.

Glenn

[Glenn101]

2 minutes ago, Gray said:

My favorite meme to come out of this mess:

 

Sometimes I agree with you. This is one of those times.

Glenn

[Bernard Gui]

8 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

Sometimes I agree with you. This is one of those times.

Glenn

Let's not forget that there were other racist participants in WW2 that got a beat down too. And that there are violent racist entities that are alive and well in our country other than the so-called Alt-Right. These things are part of the nature of fallen man.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[thesometimesaint]

Our thoughts are between us and our God. Our violent actions are between us and the state.