Garment changes

[Calm]

Erica, Tacenda's comments reminded me on another option.  It is your choice to wear garments over or under your bra.  I wear them over, Tac mentions she wears them under.  Temples in the past have varied in instruction, but in the past few decades it comes across as more local traditions interfering with correct instruction as I was given the correct instruction (do what works for you for comfort and support) back in 1980 though it has been later for others I hear.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

Regarding garment changes, I am in favor of changing garments daily.

I just wanted to go on the record with that.

[clarkgoble]

On 7/5/2017 at 10:37 PM, Duncan said:

My Mum has some choice words about female garments, I don't know if these will do anything about that but what do you think about these changes? For me personally the mesh ones were unpleasant, they ripped easy, you can't scratch your legs and they are so hot! (I wasn't endowed until after I got to the MTC and some nice woman bought me garments and she got the mesh kind)

Really. To me the cotton were the worst to wear and the mesh the coolest. (I was on a bike area in Lousiana) Further the cotton were the bulkiest which caused problems on the thighs. All of them tend to clump up in inappropriate places when working out which is why I don't wear them when doing athletics or going to the gym. I do see the occasional person at the gym wearing them but I always wonder how they deal with chaffing in painful places.

I really do think that if they looked at contemporary underwear design and fabrics that they could do tons better. In particular I wish they had silk thermal underwear similar to what Patagonia sells for skiers and climbers.

[clarkgoble]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:57 AM, Calm said:

Erica, Tacenda's comments reminded me on another option.  It is your choice to wear garments over or under your bra.  I wear them over, Tac mentions she wears them under.  Temples in the past have varied in instruction, but in the past few decades it comes across as more local traditions interfering with correct instruction as I was given the correct instruction (do what works for you for comfort and support) back in 1980 though it has been later for others I hear.

Do you have a source for that Calm? My wife wears hers under her bra because that's what she was taught but it's often not very comfortable for her. I'd love to be able to share a quasi-official source.

[rongo]

It's going to vary, based on temple presidency and temple. They have the authority and discretion for that, but we are supposed to follow the counsel for the people who are over us in our area. 

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Do you have a source for that Calm? My wife wears hers under her bra because that's what she was taught but it's often not very comfortable for her. I'd love to be able to share a quasi-official source.

I don't have a source, but i can vouch that I've been told the same thing by a temple worker and my friend confirmed it with her mother, who is a temple worker in the Billings MT temple.  Women can now wear their bra either over or under the garment, whatever works best for them.

[bluebell]

Just now, rongo said:

It's going to vary, based on temple presidency and temple. They have the authority and discretion for that, but we are supposed to follow the counsel for the people who are over us in our area. 

How does that work though?  Lots of people go through temples for the first time that are not in their temple district, so the directions they are given in the temple going through for the first time are not from anyone that is 'over them' area wise.

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, rongo said:

It's going to vary, based on temple presidency and temple. They have the authority and discretion for that, but we are supposed to follow the counsel for the people who are over us in our area. 

That's not very correlated of them...

[mfbukowski]

7 minutes ago, rongo said:

It's going to vary, based on temple presidency and temple. They have the authority and discretion for that, but we are supposed to follow the counsel for the people who are over us in our area. 

And temple presidents and matrons change every 3 years and advice will vary, so my counsel for what it is worth is one does not have to go with what one President or Matron said in 1983, but follow the spirit.

I don't think that what is right in New Mexico is wrong in Utah necessarily.

But of course I am a rebellious soul. .

We do not practice self-flagellation so I don't think being uncomfortable is a necessary part of the Lord's plan.

[rongo]

42 minutes ago, bluebell said:

How does that work though?  Lots of people go through temples for the first time that are not in their temple district, so the directions they are given in the temple going through for the first time are not from anyone that is 'over them' area wise.

 

30 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That's not very correlated of them...

It isn't very correlated, and thank goodness for that! Specific counsel each of us is given in the temple about these non-correlated things varies, and I think that it is better this way. I think that we are accountable for what we were taught, and there need not be a grand unifying handbook about all things. 

For instance, I was told when I received my endowment not to put my garments on the floor; to treat them as sacred. I have been blessed as I have done this, and I feel the Spirit by obeying this counsel. Other people don't receive this counsel, and receive other specific counsel I haven't received. I think the counsel we get from the temple presidency/matron in these regards are akin to patriarchal blessings, and vary based on us and the temple presidencies and temples.

This is an example of "leader roullette" that I think is a good thing in the Church. It allows for temple presidencies to emphasize things that are important and dear to them.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

 

It isn't very correlated, and thank goodness for that! Specific counsel each of us is given in the temple about these non-correlated things varies, and I think that it is better this way. I think that we are accountable for what we were taught, and there need not be a grand unifying handbook about all things. 

For instance, I was told when I received my endowment not to put my garments on the floor; to treat them as sacred. I have been blessed as I have done this, and I feel the Spirit by obeying this counsel. Other people don't receive this counsel, and receive other specific counsel I haven't received. I think the counsel we get from the temple presidency/matron in these regards are akin to patriarchal blessings, and vary based on us and the temple presidencies and temples.

This is an example of "leader roullette" that I think is a good thing in the Church. It allows for temple presidencies to emphasize things that are important and dear to them.

That doesn't make any sense to me (I don't understand why how a woman wears her bra should be dear to a temple presidency-either it's acceptable to God that it be worn a certain way or it isn't), but I do get what you are saying.

 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Do you have a source for that Calm? My wife wears hers under her bra because that's what she was taught but it's often not very comfortable for her. I'd love to be able to share a quasi-official source.

Bluedreams is a current temple worker, earlier in the thread I believe she says the same thing.

[Jeanne]

My mom always had them under her bra..

OFF TOPIC QUESTION.  I wash my Dad's garments...how do you guys get them so white???  Bleach is not good for my Dad's skin and I am having a heck of time..

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Do you have a source for that Calm? My wife wears hers under her bra because that's what she was taught but it's often not very comfortable for her. I'd love to be able to share a quasi-official source.

I'm a current temple worker, too, but that gives me zero authority on this topic.

What I do know is that, when my sister visited me three years ago, I encouraged her to ask our temple matron, who confirmed that any 'instructions' about the need to wear the garment under other items of clothing are just 'folklore' and not according to the instructions that she has. If your wife doesn't trust a bunch of anonymous posters, get her to speak to the matron in your temple. I'm 100% confident she'll get the same answer.

ETA: My sister had received her endowment only two weeks before she arrived to visit me, and she was concerned because 'helpful' women in her ward had all been careful to give her 'instructions'. Importantly, none of the confusion had come from leaders in the temple itself.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

OFF TOPIC QUESTION.  I wash my Dad's garments...how do you guys get them so white???  Bleach is not good for my Dad's skin and I am having a heck of time..

Are you talking about the entire item or certain parts of it?

I spray the armpits of mine with white vinegar before washing them. That helps with yellowing there. I've never really noticed anything 'non-white' happening to the rest of the fabric, but I do use a powdered additive containing sodium percarbonate each time I wash whites, so maybe it's doing its job?

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

When it comes to bras and garments, it is often just not about comfort, but health.  Poor support (and bras were not designed to provide support through cloth) can lead to poor posture and actual pain in a variety of places.  Also because of less support, women may be choosing the wrong kind of bra for their body structure, such as too tight or too loose.  Also can cause skin irritations through too much moisture (holding fabric directly against the skin without ventilation slows sweat drying) or rubbing.

I hope they come out with this in writing or share it in a visiting teaching message or something,  I know too many women who have suffered over the years because of it.

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

OFF TOPIC QUESTION.  I wash my Dad's garments...how do you guys get them so white???  Bleach is not good for my Dad's skin and I am having a heck of time..

You need to share what type of fabric.

It might be the type of water in your area, fabric softener (the quick dri should not be used with fabric softener as it coats the fabric and removes the wicking ability), laundry detergent.

Best thing to do is go online to search out what works best for the type of fabric.

Some of us are okay with some graying if it means our skins don't itch, etc.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Calm

[Jeanne]

9 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Are you talking about the entire item or certain parts of it?

I spray the armpits of mine with white vinegar before washing them. That helps wyellowing there. I've never really noticed anything 'non-white' happening to the rest of the fabric, but I do use a powdered additive containing sodium percarbonate each time I wash whites, so maybe it's doing its job?rt

Thank you..my sister in law just sent some new ones and i wanted to keep them whiter than his old ones...in general..the whole garments...top and bottom   become a relentless gray.  I have just been using mild detergent with hot water/soak.  I will try some vinegar and stuff...I miss my Mom..

 

[Jeanne]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

You need to share what type of fabric.

It might be the type of water in your area, fabric softener (the quick dri should not be used with fabric softener as it coats the fabric and removes the wicking ability), laundry detergent.

Best thing to do is go online to search out what works best for the type of fabric.

Some of us are okay with some graying if it means our skins don't itch, etc.

Thanks Calm...I will check fabric.  The new ones feel different..Dad has some skin allergies and I have be careful  Appreciate everyone's input. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

...in general..the whole garments...top and bottom become a relentless gray. 

What fabric? I use Dri-Lux, wash them with the oxygen additive (the Wikipedia page lists some American brands), and don't machine dry them. I wonder if that last bit also helps? We don't really do machine drying here.

Oh, and thank you for taking good care of your father!!!

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[clarkgoble]

57 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

OFF TOPIC QUESTION.  I wash my Dad's garments...how do you guys get them so white???  Bleach is not good for my Dad's skin and I am having a heck of time..

Oxyclean. Try soaking in vinegar for some things too. But what you use depends upon the fabric. Sometimes yellowed polyester is permanently damaged and you can't fix it. You can also try borax.

 

59 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm a current temple worker, too, but that gives me zero authority on this topic.

What I do know is that, when my sister visited me three years ago, I encouraged her to ask our temple matron, who confirmed that any 'instructions' about the need to wear the garment under other items of clothing are just 'folklore' and not according to the instructions that she has. If your wife doesn't trust a bunch of anonymous posters, get her to speak to the matron in your temple. I'm 100% confident she'll get the same answer.

I just told her because she doesn't like doing it. Thanks everyone.

I was actually told not to wash them with non-garments when I got my endowments but that didn't survive contact with the mission field.

 

[Jeanne]

15 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

What fabric? I use Dri-Lux, wash them with the oxygen additive (the Wikipedia page lists some American brands), and don't machine dry them. I wonder if that last bit also helps? We don't really do machine drying here.

Oh, and thank you for taking good care of your father!!!

 

Thank you...!!  I have been using the dryer...and I will try your suggestions!  Dad had a stroke on Thanksgiving Day and so watching all of this play out has been difficult.  The quality of life has been a downward spiral since he has been here.  Washing...is at least the one thing where i can see something useful..!!  His mind is now taking him back to his childhood days and I get to enjoy some of those old stories...sometimes we sing a song.  He is my father...and I love him.  It is the very least of what I can do for a parent...in all our highs and lows in this relationship..it comes down to love and forgiveness.

[Hamba Tuhan]

20 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

I was actually told not to wash them with non-garments when I got my endowments but that didn't survive contact with the mission field.

That sounds completely unworkable in most contexts. I feel lucky most weeks to get two loads of washing done: whites and everything else. I'm guessing only now that one of my former housemates, an adult convert, must have been told something similar by someone (maybe another missionary?) since that's exactly what he did. I wish people would stop telling other people that their ideas are commandments. I'm happy for people to share ideas as long as they don't pretend they carry any more authority than that.

A few years ago, I had a housemate from West Africa, another adult convert, who was told by an American missionary couple that he wasn't allowed to dry his garments outdoors. I told him that was nonsense. Maybe it made sense in West Africa, but it doesn't make sense here where we have a private courtyard just for drying our washing and no Harmattan winds.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

20 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Dad had a stroke on Thanksgiving Day and so watching all of this play out has been difficult.  The quality of life has been a downward spiral since he has been here.  Washing...is at least the one thing where i can see something useful..!!  His mind is now taking him back to his childhood days and I get to enjoy some of those old stories...sometimes we sing a song.  He is my father...and I love him.  It is the very least of what I can do for a parent...in all our highs and lows in this relationship..it comes down to love and forgiveness.

I have every confidence that the God of Heaven smiles down with love and gratitude on your love, forgiveness and small (and large!) acts of service. I  had similar experiences being with and caring for my mum before she passed (though my eldest sister, like you, carried the bulk of that heavy load since I live overseas from the rest of my family). It was hard but so, so wonderful at the same time. I was able to be with Mum for four weeks right before she left us. I slept next to her each night, my hand tightly clutched, and each morning gently bathed her, fixed her hair, helped her dress, prepared her breakfast, etc. Every little thing felt like a sacred act of both love for her and worship of the God who gave me to her.

Some of my experiences are so sacred I've never been able to voice them aloud, but you just reminded me of a couple of others. One morning, I just couldn't get her hair to look good at all. I tried brushing it this way and that, and each time it was a mess. Finally, in frustration, I held up the mirror and asked, 'Will this do?' Her response: 'Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...' We then laughed till we both wept. When my sister got home from work, she had the hair looking good in no time.

On another occasion, we'd had a rough night, and I was sitting on the floor of the toilet, in sheer exhaustion, not sure what to do to help. I felt impressed to sing 'I Am a Child of God'. I started, and immediately the light came back into her eyes, and she joined in for the chorus: 'Lead me, guide me, walk beside me...' It was all too beautiful.

Again, many, many thanks for caring for a man who I know is my brother and a precious child of God! You are an .

Godspeed every moment!

Edited December 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

What fabric? I use Dri-Lux, wash them with the oxygen additive (the Wikipedia page lists some American brands), and don't machine dry them. I wonder if that last bit also helps? We don't really do machine drying here.

Oh, and thank you for taking good care of your father!!!

Air drying in the sun is really good for whitening...every old tablecloth or doily brightening site I have read (I got all my grandmas white tablecloths and many of great grandma's lace...never use them, but figure someone may want them someday) includes the sun as the safest whitener, but few do that these days (especially in winter where it is really winter).

Edited December 5, 2017 by Calm