Gay Beehive Delivers Prepared Speech in F&T Meeting - Ends as Expected

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Gillebre said:

As someone who themselves is in the position of being attracted to their own gender, I know how this feels. I think it's important to have clear expectations and a sound understanding of what these feelings mean in relation to basic Gospel teachings and guidance from living Prophets. Entering into a same-sex marriage is an act of apostasy, a complete rejection of standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those who decide to marry another of their own gender are always free to attend services and participate as much as they can, but they do not have the privilege of being members of the Church and receiving the blessings of that membership.

The truth is that most often this feels like an impossible decision to make. How do you choose between feelings that come to you as natural and fundamental as companionship, love, and the core teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Jesus Christ? It's a choice that everyone must make in one form or another. It's a choice I must make everyday, and the answer, in my experience so far, is this: Can I put everything else aside and simply hold onto every experience I've had that has taught me to trust my Savior? These are terrible burdens to bear, and there are other kinds of problems that other people must face having nothing to do with attractions. I can choose to lay down what I want, to put it aside, for the sake of my trust in Jesus Christ. He's my mentor and closest Friend, and I've learned to trust my spiritual instincts and intuition. This young woman will make the choice for her own life, and those who love her will have to make it also. No one should be treated or valued less because of how they feel or the way they choose to pursue their own happiness, but the Lord's standards are more clear than they've ever been: don't expect to stay a member of His Church, and receive the blessings thereof, if you choose to completely leave it's teachings behind by marrying someone of your own gender. 

We need an increase of compassion as the Savior had on every sinner He ministered to. We need peace in our hearts to live without a spirit of condemnation in these days where diversity of how one chooses to live is perhaps greater than ever before.

Oh, that you were the presiding priesthood holder in that meeting. BRAVO!!!!

[mrmarklin]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

No, what speaks out to YOU is that.  What speaks out to me is that the main purpose was USING a child and that makes me angry if it is an adult doing that. 

It is against Church policy to record Sacrament meetings. This was a set up all the way. :((

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, stemelbow said:

It's sad people are so concerned about what's appropriate for F&T after seeing this.  I would try to go up right after jus to show my support and to offer some sound advice to the bishopric and stake counselor who was supposedly there

Then expect me to follow you. What a contentious sacrament meeting that would turn out to be.

[Gillebre]

I went to work after my post earlier and this topic has certainly blown up in the meantime. I appreciate the kind words and thoughts from those of you that could take something from my post. I wanted to offer a few more now that I'm home and have more time.

Many others have pointed out some important things to note about this whole situation. I'm trying to err on the side of the benefit of the doubt, but this does look sketchy obviously what with the recording and the "oh look how humiliated our daughter is" part. Recording it and then sharing it across the internet is not the act, in my observation, of someone interested in protecting feelings, but rather in drawing attention and making a statement. I do think that, like most situations, this could have been handled better, but it's in the past now. All we can do is learn from it and resolve to be more kind and thoughtful. It's not just about protecting the integrity of what comes from Church, but it's also about ministering to those in need while being as full of love and as empty of condemnation as we can be. 

This issue is terribly complicated because of how central to human nature it is to need to be loved and connected to other people. Attraction is an important and real aspect of that, but it's only a part of the greater whole. The core feelings of same-gender attraction become so much more complex in the light of the Gospel teachings about men and women, the importance of marriage and gender, and the ultimate end goal of our Heavenly Parents: exalted children starting eternal families of their own. Same-gender attraction is in some ways truly set apart from other aspects of mortal life because it diametrically opposes what exaltation has been revealed, thus far, to be. It's an eternal family that starts with a husband and wife, a king and queen, that, after the pattern of both Heavenly and earthly parents, go on to make eternal life their own with all that could entail.

All feelings, temptations, or inclinations, whether it be attraction, food, fun, or anything else, must be managed somehow or it will take over and leave us unbalanced.

I'm no better than anyone else, and truthfully I've just had a lot of experience at failure to help me learn how to succeed. To anyone else that experiences similar feelings of attraction and hopes they can live a Temple and Gospel centered life, I must reiterate what I said before. It comes down to trusting deeply in Jesus Christ, in His power, in His wisdom, and in His Atonement to save us from our own stupid mistakes. That principle is universally applicable to any trial or challenge...trust the Lord, and try to trust Him more every day. I've only found my own answers because I've been spiritually desperate. No one needs to falter and make the same mistakes in order to gain access to the answers I've found for myself. If they can help you please take and liken them. Trust the Lord because He won't let you down. Find the experiences that have proven that to you, and if you feel they're lacking, then ask Him to help you make new ones.

I truly feel for those people that feel such attractions as I do. They come with ups and downs all their own, but the fact remains that they are good, important people who matter deeply to Heavenly Father. There are no easy answers, but we can at least be friendly and warm to those around us (even if we don't feel like they necessarily deserve it). I ramble, but I hope someone can take something helpful from my thoughts. 

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I understand what you are saying and I respect that.  But in every General Conference..there is a script..and an agenda in the testifying of Jesus Christ.

Same goes for Sacrament meeting *talks*. There's a difference.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I realize that this isn't a norm for testimony meetings..but what speaks out is the shutting down of a child..with a testimony!

"but what speaks out is the shutting down of a child"

There's that untouchable again. Man, she's powerful!

[The Nehor]

Children words are above reproach now no matter what they say?

Welp, the last days have arrived:

4 And I will give children unto them to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.

5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbor; the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honorable.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

What saddens me is that this ward missed out on a loving opportunity.  Now..this girl will either grow up and grow with her own understanding with God and the church..or she will/can be shamed and go down that slippery path that leaves her outside..afraid..and hating herself.  For whatever reason she wrote all of this..and is taped..the church missed out and because of it..some ward teens are going to remember and some may walk away.

I think it's quite possible the bishop met with her afterwards. Usually, based on my first-hand experience n a branch presidency and from bishop interviews I have had, and my father being a bishop, it was done lovingly.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

No.  That's not what she said although it is the conclusion she offered.

The Holy Ghost witnessed to her that God made and loved her.  The truth.
Because she identifies as gay, she then made the connection that because God doesn't make mistakes, and made her, and loves her, that her homosexuality was also approved of by God.

However, since everyone is born into mortality with weakness and flaws (Ether 12) and God loves all of us no matter what (Romans 8 ) the false doctrine continues that this must mean God will accept any sins that come from our mortal weakness.

BINGO!!!

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Shutting down a child who is trying to express herself on open mic day, defying her expression and for the sake of keeping the meeting to what's appropriate is idiotic and cold.  If you have an issue let her give her piece and address with the family afterward, at the very least.  

"Shutting down a child..."

The untouchable that just won't quit. The promoters, most likely her parents, chose well.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

I have seen people write down testimonies.  When I was in the bishopric, I would often make notes of the things I wanted to convey on the Sundays when I knew I would be bearing my testimony.  My notes were always heartfelt and done in the spirit of prayer.  Preparing ahead of time certainly doesn't mean that it isn't a true testimony.

I imagine that this was an important truth for this girl to share with her ward family.  She likely gave it much thought and prayer.  I bet she was scared and nervous -- clearly she had reason to be.  Just because a family member recorded such an important even doesn't mean that it was a "set up" or that someone put the child in that position.  I find that to be a baseless conclusion.

If you were in the bishopric today and this "brave little girl" bore her testimony in your meeting, and your bishop stopped her and asked you to speak afterwards, would you? if so, what would you say?

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Then let the parents be accountable...she was the one at the pulpit...and an automatic judgement took place. 

A judgment to stop the testimony. The presiding priesthood member reinforced the truths she spoke. Didn't shame her.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

but like I told Darren10

What do you think? 

I don't know how hard others take things, I am no therapist. I am sure people struggle, but those struggles are not always the Church. The Church is such a large orginzation that it is an easy object to paint a bullseye' son, and even larger for thos who wish to cast stone, as it is had to miss. But every bad day, unresolved issue and emotion is the fault of the Church as a target. It is a Church, not your parents house, not the police officer where some want to point their gun. It is a Church, an all volunteer organized orgination (at least on the local level) who have to contend with most of the hate and an attack.

 

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Four minutes is all it takes to shame...she wasn't up there 2 minutes before she was shut down..Doesn't that speak to you at all?  I don't know what will become of her or what her future brings..I wish her the very best as all of you.  But this day..will be remembered and not forgotten for a lesbian child of God.  Four minutes speaks volumes.

"I don't know what will become of her or what her future brings.."

Not even,

"What saddens me is that this ward missed out on a loving opportunity.  Now..this girl will either grow up and grow with her own understanding with God and the church..or she will/can be shamed and go down that slippery path that leaves her outside..afraid..and hating herself.  For whatever reason she wrote all of this..and is taped..the church missed out and because of it..some ward teens are going to remember and some may walk away."

Bold mine.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69113-gay-beehive-delivers-prepared-speech-in-ft-meeting-ends-as-expected/?page=2#comment-1209728172

 

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

That's an important point, Jeanne.  She was obviously sharing something that was deeply important and spiritual to her.  The message she got was:  We don't want to hear it!  And that same message was given to any other LGBT persons in the congregation.  The message sent was:  "We don't want to hear that God loves you as you are and that you have hopes and dreams.  Keep those things to yourself."

Even though she was asked to sit down after promoting a gay lifestyle? Not after saying she is gay and made the way her Heavenly parents wanted to make her, but for choosing to one day live wit a gay partner.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

Is the church's correlated narrative so weak that leaders must silence a 12-year-old-girl for talking about how she really feels inside?  I think this young girl's comments actually align with what the Savior taught about love and tolerance.  Her message and overall sincerity, IMO, were better than 90% of the testimonies I hear.    

"... that leaders must silence a 12-year-old-girl..."

Untouchable I tell ya'..she's untouchable!!! (By design, of course)

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

yeah..you know, in just a few minutes she learned that she is not included in the plan of salvation. 

Neither am I if I choose a sinful lifestyle and be OK with it.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, JulieM said:

Are you seriously comparing someone being born gay with having a bad temper or having too much pride?  Or having lust and wanting to cheat on a partner?

How about you try to overcome being attracted to the opposite sex?  Could you "control those emotions" and live a celibate life?

Can you show me where that standard is scripturally based? What prophets have admonished anyone to overcome opposite sex attraction? Why are you setting a standards God has never set?

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

What false doctrine was taught? Can you provide an example or two?

As has already been pointed out, the preeminent one is that people are somehow perfect 'just the way they are'. If that were true, there would be zero need for an atonement. This position is therefore fundamentally and by very definition anti-Christ.

Compare with the following:

• Korihor: 'Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so. And many more such things did he say unto them, telling them that there could be no atonement made for the sins of men ... and whatsoever a man did was no crime'.
• Nehor: 'And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life'.
• Sherem: 'I fear lest I have committed the unpardonable sin, for I have lied unto God; for I denied the Christ, and said that I believed the scriptures'.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Leaders correctly understood that if the members of the ward put a face to the issue it would cause many to question the church's position. The church and its leaders are threatened by real people sharing their real beliefs and experience. It's quite an odd thing when you think about it. Despite many efforts by leaders to script what is and isn't an appropriate testimony F&T is still open for diverse expression. It's just surprising when it actually is diverse.

The church will continue to lose the next generations if they cannot come up with a better way to address these kinds of issues. I don't believe that Millenials and those coming after will put up with that kind of authoritarian censorship. Time will tell.

Oh, the church leader's fault again? It never ends, does it?

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

What gave you that idea?  (real question.  Not rhetorical).

No, that wouldn't be ok with me.  I even held my children back on giving their testimonies till I felt they actually had a testimony and were not repeating what everyone else said. 

I see parents do this very often during F&T meetings--and many people think it's cute and special -- but it's scripted and not sincere, IMO.  The problem is, the church encourages and inoculates members to "repeate what everyone else said," not just in F&T meetings.  Why do people always play F&T bingo?  Because many members just sound like parrots and repeat exactly what the church wants to hear; thus, there isn't much room for freedom of thought and/or expression during church meetings; most testimonies are a repeat of what everyone else said.  Many members are conditioned from a young age to share a certain type of witness and/or testimony, which is usually based on what their parents believe.    

Think about this:  the ONE true church on the entire face of the earth has to silence and force a 12-year-old girl to sit down because her personal beliefs didn't align with the correlated narrative and she doesn't fit the traditional mold (as dictated by the church)?  

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

I agree.  Not only that, but I think the church is on the wrong side of history right now as it relates to how it treats gays.  Fifty years from now, videos like this will only illustrate how certain doctrine  and policies were completely unnecessary.

Ask yourself this:  If Christ was sitting in the room during this meeting, do you really think he would have asked her to sit down?  I think not...he probably would have let her finish her talk and then would have given her a hug and said I love you.  

I think Christ, knowing the intent of her heart and thoughts of her mind and of those promoters, likely her parents, He would, at the perfect moment of course, ask her to sit down, perhaps more lovingly than imperfect mortals would, but would do so, and then reprimand those who prompted this "brave little girl" up to this (most likely her parents) and set the doctrines straight. When it cam to doctrinal purity, winning friends wasn't Christ's top priority.

[Rain]

37 minutes ago, Thinking said:

It's interesting that you are calling her a child and suggesting that it wasn't her decision to do this. Remember that the Church allows children much younger than her to make serious covenants with God through the ordinance of baptism.

I am NOT suggesting it wasn't her decision to do this. I have always been under the impression that it was her choice. I would  think it is likely that she was influenced either by parents or society. It is the parents actions (if it is them) of videoing it that I disagree with. I honestly have a hard time believing that they would video it just so she could have a good memory of what happened. I am really struggling with the idea that they are videoing it for any positive reason. The circumstances really don't lend themselves to that, but if I heard otherwise some positive reasoning from the parents I would feel different about this. 

So for me this very much differs from a baptism. Which, by the way, I don't feel should be automatically done at age 8 either.

 

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, juliann said:

What in the WORLD gives you the right to call a young teen, a complete stranger,  a sinner??????????

She clearly stated she desired what is considered sin in the LDS Church, did she not?

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, MorningStar said:

I just listened to the podcast where she was interviewed.  She had asked her mom for a while if she could get up and bear her testimony in such a way. At first her mom said no, but later she helped her write it and the girl invited people to come hear it.  She also said her bishop was gone and that she's sure he would have been kind about it.  It was the stake president who shut off the microphone and asked her to go sit down.  Her mom never should have allowed it and encouraged her to instead just make her own YouTube video coming out or write a blog rather than planning to share her goal to grow up and go against the church.  How is that a testimony when one of your main points is that you don't plan on living the gospel when you grow up?  

People ruining testimony meeting is my pet peeve and this one takes the cake. I have known bishops to ask people to sit down before for preaching false doctrine.  My father-in-law unfortunately found himself in that position and other times the person was just monopolizing the entire meeting.  I go to F&T meeting to be uplifted.  

 

 

 

 

Ah ha!!!