Salt Lake Tribune article on LDS and Protestants in Utah converting to Orthodoxy

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

I wrote, "I think mass killing rates worldwide are decreasing " 

I am not sure if there is reliable data out-there for all casualties, but the available data I found shows

1. Battle deaths are decreasing 

2. Infant death rates are decreasing as well  

Yes there are probably more deaths today because there are more people, but I doubt the rates of violent deaths are higher.  Why? because of 1 and 2. 

When was the last time millions of people were killed? and why do you always try to make me look bad? 

By the way, I will appreciate if you decide answer my questions

Yes, like in concentration camps during WW2. Do you have any evidence that far worst fates happen at a higher rate today? 

Far worse fates at higher rates? Worse then a horrible death? I am impressed at how quickly the goalposts run down the field whenever I talk to you. First you argue scientific progress retards violence. I point out that industrialization made that kind of mass murder possible. Now you insist I find people who treat people worse then the Nazis who kill at a higher rate.

I try to make you look bad because you are not discussing. You are always trotting out your hobby horse how scientific progress makes everything wonderful and, when challenged, make irrelevant demands for evidence. You do not ask for evidence supporting the other person's view. You think you are being clever by demanding very specific evidence you believe does not existas if that is the only kind that could support their point. Then you are sometimes wrong and when the evidence does exist you demand even more specific evidence. Hence the need to provide some gentle and/or not so gentle mockery.

[Damien the Leper]

The LDS church shouldn't care if people leave the church for Orthodoxy. The LDS church would survive with the top 15 and 600 others...even if it never gets another baptism. The church should just move on and go about it's business.

[The Nehor]

34 minutes ago, boblloyd91 said:

I hate to be a killjoy but is anyone going to discuss the actual topic or has it been derailed beyond recognition?

I currently have no plans to convert to Orthodoxy and will let you know if that changes or if anyone in my ward does convert. I did go to a Greek Orthodox food festival once. It was delicious.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Valentinus said:

The LDS church shouldn't care if people leave the church for Orthodoxy. The LDS church would survive with the top 15 and 600 others...even if it never gets another baptism. The church should just move on and go about it's business.

If our only objective were survival that would be a sound strategy. Unfortunately we have slightly higher ambitions like preaching the gospel to all the world, saving souls, and redeeming everyone who is dead on top of that.

[MiserereNobis]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I currently have no plans to convert to Orthodoxy and will let you know if that changes or if anyone in my ward does convert. I did go to a Greek Orthodox food festival once. It was delicious.

Good to hear that you're not going to convert to Orthodoxy.

Now, let's talk about Catholicism...

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by MiserereNobis

[MiserereNobis]

I gotta say, Orthodoxy has always tempted me with its awesome beards.

I probably would have gotten along fine with Brother Brigham.

 

[Damien the Leper]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If our only objective were survival that would be a sound strategy. Unfortunately we have slightly higher ambitions like preaching the gospel to all the world, saving souls, and redeeming everyone who is dead on top of that.

I get that. But a loss is a loss and the church should move on. If the product being sold isn't being bought then no harm, no foul. It's not worth stressing over. Be ambitious all you want but please do back off when a person says no or has a change of heart.

[Damien the Leper]

10 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Good to hear that you're not going to convert to Orthodoxy.

Now, let's talk about Catholicism...

 

You mean Greek Orthodoxy Lite! or is it Diet Greek Orthodoxy?

[MiserereNobis]

3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

You mean Greek Orthodoxy Lite! or is it Diet Greek Orthodoxy?

Greek? Us Romans have an authoritarian streak, so it's Diet Russian Orthodoxy

ETA: that should tempt you, yes..?

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by MiserereNobis

[Damien the Leper]

10 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Greek? Us Romans have an authoritarian streak, so it's Diet Russian Orthodoxy

ETA: that should tempt you, yes..?

 

Possibly. I am rather fond of Russia.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Valentinus

[MiserereNobis]

Just now, Valentinus said:

What should tempt me?

Just teasing you about your hammer and sickle.

[Damien the Leper]

Just now, MiserereNobis said:

Just teasing you about your hammer and sickle.

I got that after the fact. Lol. Hence why I edited my post.

[MormonVideoGame]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Far worse fates at higher rates? Worse then a horrible death? I am impressed at how quickly the goalposts run down the field whenever I talk to you.

FYI I didn't say "Far worse fates in today's world than being killed in battle..." it was SteveO

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

 First you argue scientific progress retards violence. I point out that industrialization made that kind of mass murder possible. Now you insist I find people who treat people worse then the Nazis who kill at a higher rate.

I said, "Science has already solve many of our problems."  Which is true. 

Of course many use science and technology for evil, but  "I think mass killing rates worldwide are decreasing," 

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You are always trotting out your hobby horse how scientific progress makes everything wonderful and, when challenged, make irrelevant demands for evidence. 

Again it was SteveO that said, "Far worse fates in today's world than being killed in battle... " 

So I asked him for evidence that "far worst fates happen at a higher rate today?"

How can  you challenge me with things I agree with? I don't understand how that is possible, please explain

I said, "Science has already solve many of our problems." NOT that science makes everything wonderful. I said we don't know the limits. What a wonderful straw-man on your part. 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[MormonVideoGame]

SteveO: "Far worse fates in today's world than being killed in battle.."
Me: "Do you have any evidence that far worst fates happen at a higher rate today? "
The Nehor: "I am impressed at how quickly the goalposts run down the field"

To clarify one more time...I said, "Science has already solve many of our problems." NOT that science makes everything wonderful. Many use science for evil. I said we don't know the limits.  

Good night my best MDDB friend The Nehor! I am sure you and I would get along if we ever meet in person. Wouldn't it be fun if we go on a double date with some pretty girls? 

Edited June 7, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[MormonVideoGame]

On 6/6/2017 at 9:00 PM, The Nehor said:

You are always trotting out your hobby horse 

I  defended the LDS church two days ago here

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Kenngo1969]

On 6/6/2017 at 11:21 PM, MormonVideoGame said:

...Good night my best MDDB friend The Nehor! I am sure you and I would get along if we ever meet in person. Wouldn't it be fun if we go on a double date with some pretty girls? 

Dang!   In my mind, I thought you were a pretty girl!  Shoot!

 

[The Nehor]

On 6/7/2017 at 0:21 AM, MormonVideoGame said:

Good night my best MDDB friend The Nehor! I am sure you and I would get along if we ever meet in person. Wouldn't it be fun if we go on a double date with some pretty girls? 

So asking you out myself is out of the question?

[The Nehor]

32 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

I  defended the LDS church two days ago here

 

Yes....quite the spirited defense:

Quote

A drop in missionary numbers doesn't disprove the LDS church

[MormonVideoGame]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So asking you out myself is out of the question?

I am not gay, ask Kenngo1969, not me. 

58 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Dang!   In my mind, I thought you were a pretty girl!  Shoot!

 

See, that is patternicity and confirmation bias due to wishful-thinking.  I am a straight male. 

Don't worry, I am sure you are going to find a beautiful woman here. Just be patient 

Edited June 9, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

See, that is patternicity and confirmation bias due to wishful-thinking.  I am a straight male. 

In the words of Tevye:

"Yes but do you love me?"

 

[theplains]

On 2017-6-3 at 9:14 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

While I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because I believe it is the best way to reap the most bounteous harvest, spiritually speaking (an hundredfold), far be it from me to look down my nose at anyone else who adheres to another faith tradition because of his sixtyfold or thirtyfold harvest.  Rather, I will congratulate him because the good seeds he has sown have, just as the good seeds I have sown in my life, borne good fruit.

Would you congratulate someone preaching a false Jesus (aka former Michael the Archangel) if that person believes
he is sowing 'good seed?'   Many believe that teaching Jesus is the first spirit child of heavenly parents is evidence of
'bad seed.'

Thanks,
Jim

[RevTestament]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

Would you congratulate someone preaching a false Jesus (aka former Michael the Archangel) if that person believes
he is sowing 'good seed?'   Many believe that teaching Jesus is the first spirit child of heavenly parents is evidence of
'bad seed.'

Thanks,
Jim

Did not the sons of God put the only begotten Son of God to death?

[theplains]

On 2017-6-18 at 7:35 PM, RevTestament said:

Did not the sons of God put the only begotten Son of God to death?

Jesus said of them, "You are of your father, the devil."

Jim

[RevTestament]

9 minutes ago, theplains said:

Jesus said of them, "You are of your father, the devil."

Jim

Exactly, who was Jesus speaking to Jim?

Does that include all Israelites? Mary? the apostles?

Sometimes children go astray and follow the adversary. That doesn't mean they aren't sons.

Hebrews 12:9

9 Furthermore we have had ^afathers of our flesh which ^bcorrected us, and we gave them ^creverence: shall we not much rather be in ^dsubjection unto the ^eFather of ^fspirits, and live?

Let me address the issue another way. Hebrews calls Jesus our "fellow." He is our brother. The first-born or first begotten.

Hebrews 1:9

9 Thou hast loved ^arighteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 
 

I won't defend the "born of heavenly parents" thing but I will certainly maintain that Yeshua is our spiritual brother who fore knew us and created us in time and place according to His good pleasure and the plans of Heavenly Father.

[CameronDavis]

Hi everyone! A friend alerted me to this discussion so I thought I would jump in and introduce myself! I am the Cameron Davis mentioned in that article, and you can read my full interview here: https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2017/05/13/utah-mormon-orthodox-convert/

Anyways, I am happy to answer any questions you might have, either in this thread or in a PM. In the meantime, here is a bit about myself.

I grew up in Idaho before moving to Logan. I went to Utah State University, where (after undergrad degrees in philosophy and religious studies) I studied for an MA in history under Dr. Philip Barlow, who is likely known to many of you, and Dr. Norm Jones. I was then accepted to Princeton Theological Seminary and Duke Divinity but I opted not to continue my education (at least formally). I count many current Mormon scholars as dear friends and acquaintances, including Dan Wotherspoon, Brad Kime, Don Bradley, and Greg Prince. I was raised in a devout LDS household and both my mother's and my father's sides are multi-generational Mormon. In 2009, I began to feel drawn towards more traditional forms of Christian worship. I first attended an Episcopalian parish because I tend to be left-leaning in my politics and that was a nice fit. After some time, though, I moved onto Catholicism. Via Catholicism I learned about Eastern Orthodoxy and the rest is history. I was baptized and chrismated in 2014.

Thanks for reading!