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Salt Lake Tribune article on LDS and Protestants in Utah converting to Orthodoxy


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http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2017/05/utah-mormons-protestants-finding-new-spiritual-home-ancient-orthodox-church/

 

So this article has been making the rounds lately which I have found interesting. Apparently there has been such a large amount of growth (from conversions) that they are working on building a bigger church. I will share more of my thoughts soon, but in the meantime I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on this.

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https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/lds-who-join-other-churches/

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2017/02/03/a-word-about-lds-disaffection/

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/toward-interreligious-oneness/

Essentially, my bottom line is this.  While I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because I believe it is the best way to reap the most bounteous harvest, spiritually speaking (an hundredfold), far be it from me to look down my nose at anyone else who adheres to another faith tradition because of his sixtyfold or thirtyfold harvest.  Rather, I will congratulate him because the good seeds he has sown have, just as the good seeds I have sown in my life, borne good fruit.  And while I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provides the most complete path to God, I also believe that many paths will get one most of the way there. To a large extent, I think I understand Orthodoxy's allure.  I feel a certain degree of Holy Envy for its practitioners, because any similar rituals practiced in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are reserved for Temples, and my attendance (both there, and, Alas!, at regular Sunday meetings) has been somewhat sparse of late.

 

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40 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 And while I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provides the most complete path to God, I also believe that many paths will get one most of the way there. 

What if Anglicanism is the most complete path to God, and the LDS church is one of the paths with partial truths? 

Or is Anglicanism too liberal? 

By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths? Some neurologists argue god is an illusion, how do you know they are wrong? Ever read the Illusion of God's presence book? Our brains are very good in finding patterns... many believe in dowsing, rabbit's foot, reincarnation, reiki, haunted houses, witchcraft because of that. 

40 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

To a large extent, I think I understand Orthodoxy's allure.  I feel a certain degree of Holy Envy for its practitioners, because any similar rituals practiced in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are reserved for Temples, and my attendance (both there, and, Alas!, at regular Sunday meetings) has been somewhat sparse of late.

FYI 

the Anglican Orthodox Church performs same sex marriages. 

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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21 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

What if Anglicanism is the most complete path to God, and the LDS church is one of the paths with partial truths? 

Or is Anglicanism too liberal? 

By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths? Some neurologists argue god is an illusion, how do you know they are wrong? Ever read the Illusion of God's presence book? Our brains are very good in finding patterns... many believe in dowsing, rabbit's foot, reincarnation, reiki, haunted houses, witchcraft because of that. 

FYI 

the Anglican Orthodox Church performs same sex marriages. 

The article is speaking about the Greek Orthodox Church (and mentions the Russian and Servian), not the Anglican Orthodox Church.  

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11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The article is speaking about the Greek Orthodox Church (and mentions the Russian and Servian), not the Anglican Orthodox Church.  

Okay, let me start over. 

What if the Greek Orthodox Church is the most complete path to God, and the LDS church is one of the paths with partial truths? Or is the Greek Orthodox Church too liberal? By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths? 

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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14 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths?

It is always an issue of faith.
But if Joseph Smith was telling the truth, then there can be no question about the right path.
If Joseph Smith was lying, then any path may be fine.

I happen to believe Joseph.  Others don't.  But if what he said happened actually happened the path is clear.

Edited by JLHPROF
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1 hour ago, MormonVideoGame said:

By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths? Some neurologists argue god is an illusion, how do you know they are wrong? Ever read the Illusion of God's presence book? Our brains are very good in finding patterns... many believe in dowsing, rabbit's foot, reincarnation, reiki, haunted houses, witchcraft because of that. 

Maybe you should start by reading Huston Smith's book "Forgotten Truth."  This book, by an academic scholar of religion, might give you a starting point to realizing that there could be something to all this spiritual stuff.  Perhaps from there you might be led to Ken Wilber, who likewise argues that there are universal spiritual truths found through reason.

There is a way to find spirituality through reason, and then that path, if taken sincerely, will lead you to Divinity.

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2 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

.............................................................

the Anglican Orthodox Church performs same sex marriages. 

According to Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Orthodox_Church ,

Quote

The Anglican Orthodox Church (AOC) claims to be the second oldest conservative Anglican denomination (the Reformed Episcopal Church being the oldest, founded in 1873), and the oldest to be formed in the United States in the 20th century. The AOC is not in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury of the Church of England. This is due to the perceived abandonment of Reformation doctrine by that church. The AOC is widely seen as being puritanical and extremely low church in liturgy and theology.

The Anglican Orthodox Church was founded in 1963 by Bishop James Parker Dees. Over the decades there have been several divisions of the church resulting in the need to reincorporate in 1999. The church was then re-incorporated once again as an international church in 2001 to allow for its international churches abroad to be legally included as entities of the Anglican Orthodox Church.[1]Bishop Dees left the Episcopal Church due to what he believed were its immoral policies and doctrinal errors. In so doing, he acted about a decade and a half before a larger number of conservative Episcopalians separated from the Episcopal Church following the decision of its general convention to approve the ordination of women as priests. The AOC today preserves the traditions of Dees and has national church affiliates in 22 countries around the world.

So they actually perform same-sex marriages?

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3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

True, I should eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow I die.

As a bit of a tangent, I've always thought that the common interpretation of this scripture was not quite right.  God doesn't want us to be puritans, eschewing pleasure simply because it is pleasure.  The pleasures of eating and drinking and being merry were given to us by God.  I am glad that He has blessed us with good food and good drink and a sense of humor.  Natural pleasures come to us from God.  It is their misuse that is a problem, or, in the case of this oft quoted scripture, the wrong sense of priority.  If we are giving ourselves to God, there is no problem with enjoying the beautiful wonderful things that God has given us in this life.  The problem is when we think that these natural pleasures are all there are and an end unto themselves.

A good meal and good drink (wine for us Catholics, root beer for you Mormons) and hearty laughter, partaken of knowing that they are from God, bring us much good and, dare I say, make God smile.

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1 hour ago, MormonVideoGame said:

What if Anglicanism is the most complete path to God, and the LDS church is one of the paths with partial truths? 

I answered that question in the links I provided (which I suppose you didn't trouble yourself enough to read?)  I suppose I'll find out in the next life, if not sooner. Whatever my religious (or even ir--religious) leanings, I don't believe in a God who says, "Bzzzzzt!  Sorry!  You were wrong.  It was actually [fill-in-religion-here]! No soup for you!"

Whatever the religious tradition to which we adhere (or not) our job is to do the best we can to live the best we can according to what light we've been given. (Or, if we're irreligious, to do the best we can to make life as good for as many people within our influence as we can before [from the perspective of the irreligious] "succumbing to the void."

Quote

By the way, how do you know there is a god that cares about faith and religious paths?

I'm not going there.  I don't expect you to understand, much less to accord any respect to, a faith-based paradigm, and that's fine: To each, his own.  Vive le difference!  (See also 1 Corinthians 2:11.)

Quote

Some neurologists argue god is an illusion, how do you know they are wrong?

In strictly empirical terms, I don't, in fact, know that they're wrong, but if they're right, it doesn't much matter what any of us believes, or what actions our faith moves us to take, does it?  We'll simply succumb to the void, and that will be the end of it.  Again, if that's your position, I'll leave you to it: Fine and dandy.  

But let's say that before we actually succumb to the void, some being (say, the Petulant Omnipotent "Q" from Star Trek: The Next Generation) lets us know what suckers we were because of our faith: "Hah-hah!  Gotcha!" he says.  In response, I'll say, "Well, I did the best I could to do what I believed the God who I thought existed wanted me to do, to love Him, to love others (who I believed were His children), to do unto others as I would have them do unto me, to serve them, to succor them, to meet their needs, and so on.  If I'm just a sucker, and if that actually was simply all for naught, if that's the worst thing someone can say about me, I'm completely OK with that."

Quote

Ever read the Illusion of God's presence book? 

No.  And?

Quote

Our brains are very good in finding patterns... many believe in dowsing, rabbit's foot, reincarnation, reiki, haunted houses, witchcraft because of that. 

And?  What does pattern recognition have to do with formulating cogent, coherent answers to the "terrible questions"; with making sense of things which it is impossible to make sense of by relying only on the mortal mind, on human reasoning, and on other, similarly-limited tools; and so on.  You probably attribute such things to dumb luck (some good, but most bad), to chance, to randomness, and so on.  Fine.  More power to you.  Vive le difference!  Conversely, I take comfort in Isaiah 55:8-9, in 1 Nephi 11:17, and so on, and believe that eventually, I will understand things I cannot now comprehend (see Mosiah 4:9).  

Quote

 

FYI 

the Anglican Orthodox Church performs same sex marriages. 

 

We disagree about the fundamental meaning, purpose, and nature of marriage because we use different paradigms in our approach to it.  And?  That strikes me as a "dog bites man" story (not to mention being a red herring). Again, Vive le difference!  While, if someone asks me why I believe what I believe about marriage, I hope I would be ready to answer that question, I don't feel any need to impose my/my faith's paradigm on their beliefs and practices.

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12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Then I shall burn in hell for all eternity for my profane and wicked ways.

Oh, whew, guess I am safe then. Those evil liberals are all going to hell.

True, I should eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow I die.

I will sacrifice a goat to these neurologists in hopes of gaining more of their divine wisdom.

How do we know the book itself is not an illusion?

As a half-rabbit reincarnated witch that dowses for ghosts I would ask that you not speak of my beliefs so disrespectfully. Thanks in advance.

I asked one to marry me to my car for tax reasons. They refused. So much for being liberal. :( 

:D:rofl::D 

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13 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

As a bit of a tangent, I've always thought that the common interpretation of this scripture was not quite right.  God doesn't want us to be puritans, eschewing pleasure simply because it is pleasure.  The pleasures of eating and drinking and being merry were given to us by God.  I am glad that He has blessed us with good food and good drink and a sense of humor.  Natural pleasures come to us from God.  It is their misuse that is a problem, or, in the case of this oft quoted scripture, the wrong sense of priority.  If we are giving ourselves to God, there is no problem with enjoying the beautiful wonderful things that God has given us in this life.  The problem is when we think that these natural pleasures are all there are and an end unto themselves.

A good meal and good drink (wine for us Catholics, root beer for you Mormons) and hearty laughter, partaken of knowing that they are from God, bring us much good and, dare I say, make God smile.

No disagreement. In the bible it is not an indictment and in the Book of Mormon the phrase is specifically used to those who think nothing of God or think of Him only lightly.

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48 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

As a bit of a tangent, I've always thought that the common interpretation of this scripture was not quite right.  God doesn't want us to be puritans, eschewing pleasure simply because it is pleasure.  The pleasures of eating and drinking and being merry were given to us by God.  I am glad that He has blessed us with good food and good drink and a sense of humor.  Natural pleasures come to us from God.  It is their misuse that is a problem, or, in the case of this oft quoted scripture, the wrong sense of priority.  If we are giving ourselves to God, there is no problem with enjoying the beautiful wonderful things that God has given us in this life.  The problem is when we think that these natural pleasures are all there are and an end unto themselves.

A good meal and good drink (wine for us Catholics, root beer for you Mormons) and hearty laughter, partaken of knowing that they are from God, bring us much good and, dare I say, make God smile.

I always heard it to be Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tomorrow we diet. :lol: 

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

How do we know the book itself is not an illusion?

Everything could be an illusion, but it is a useless possibility that doesn't get us anywhere. 

So you don't believe people can hallucinate? Some people feel ghosts, Reiki energy, evil spirits, aliens... you believe them? 

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 I don't believe in a God who says, "Bzzzzzt!  Sorry!  You were wrong.  It was actually [fill-in-religion-here]! No soup for you!"

How do you know? and how do you know God is not evil and is not just playing games with us? 

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm not going there.  I don't expect you to understand, much less to accord any respect to, a faith-based paradigm, and that's fine: To each, his own.  Vive le difference!  (See also 1 Corinthians 2:11.)

How do you know I don't understand? 

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

In strictly empirical terms, I don't, in fact, know that they're wrong, but if they're right, it doesn't much matter what any of us believes, or what actions our faith moves us to take, does it?  We'll simply succumb to the void, and that will be the end of it.  Again, if that's your position, I'll leave you to it: Fine and dandy.  

unless scientists find the cure for death. Some scientists like Kaku believe biological immortality is a good possibility. To clarify I don't have a position on the existence of God or gods. 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Cfr

I retract, sorry. There are too many churches.  
By the way, they rarely give me a reference when I ask for a CFR. It appears that I am the only one that needs to follow the rules. 

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

This book, by an academic scholar of religion, might give you a starting point to realizing that there could be something to all this spiritual stuff

Yes "could". Everything is possible, that is why I don't have a position on the existence of God. I just don't know. 

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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"I retract, sorry. There are too many churches.  
By the way, they rarely give me a reference when I ask for a CFR. It appears that I am the only one that needs to follow the rules."

Report them then.

If I have ever missed giving you a CFR, please point it out and I will answer it now.

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6 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

unless scientists find the cure for death. Some scientists like Kaku believe biological immorality is a good possibility. 

Those scientists sound like morons. People using biology to be immoral is an established historical fact and not just a possibility. You should not listen to these hack scientists.

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Mormon Video Game,

I answered the questions you posed in your previous post to me.  You may not like the answers; you may find them unsatisfying to the purely empirical mind.  C'est la vie!  I asked you several direct questions which you have not chosen to answer, instead throwing out more questions. Whatever else such an exchange may be called, it's not a "dialogue."  As surprising as this may seem to you, I don't feel an overwhelming urge to answer your questions to me if you do not reciprocate.  To me, that seems the equivalent of you watching me chase my tail, and, while that may be amusing to you, I don't exist solely for your amusement.

Thanks,

-Ken

 

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So anyways, back to the thread topic, I feel that why many have converted to Orthodoxy (and let's throw Catholicism in the mix too!) is probably the history. I'm not talking our LDS church history (in fact one of the young men in the story was well aware of LDS church history and it was really a non issue growing up). Rather I'm referring to the church fathers and ancient Christian studies. I think the basic concept of apostasy that we LDS (and in fact much of Protestantism) teaches is much too one dimensional and speaking for myself when I have read the early Church fathers I don't see the conniving devious "priestcraft" I assumed growing up. Now please don't take this as me announcing I'm joining Eastern Orthodoxy!

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15 hours ago, boblloyd91 said:

http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2017/05/utah-mormons-protestants-finding-new-spiritual-home-ancient-orthodox-church/

 

So this article has been making the rounds lately which I have found interesting. Apparently there has been such a large amount of growth (from conversions) that they are working on building a bigger church. I will share more of my thoughts soon, but in the meantime I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on this.

I haven't left the church yet, I can see how some former members don't want to give up belief of something. I thought I'd be going to a Bible church or something if I were to leave, but I'm not ready to accept an inerrant Bible like the EV's do or most. My insurance agent to be exact. After conversing with him, it made me change my mind. I will have to look into Orthodoxy, don't know much about it. It would be nice to meet fellow LDS too. Or former LDS, that understand what it feels like to be in my spot. 

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