Problems With Millennials? Not just LDS

[Bobbieaware]

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers. Link below...

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/22494-how-the-new-christian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel
 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[clarkgoble]

A common self-criticism I hear from many Evangelical writers from even before the Millennials issue was that Evangelicalism was not emphasizing scriptural and theological knowledge enough. A rather well known book on the subject was 1994's The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind by Mark Noll. Whether that's tied to this or not I can't say for sure. It seems possible there's a connection. From my admittedly light reading of editorials by various Evangelicals there's a perception that things got worse not better since Noll's book.

It's interesting comparing this with Mormonism since a common cry by those who leave over intellectual rather than social issues is, "I didn't know that." That is there is I think an unfortunate ignorance in the church for basic theological and scriptural knowledge. Part of me wishes that the manuals raised a bit more sophistication such as we saw in many older lesson manuals from before the 1970's.

For Evangelicals, many of whom tend towards fundamentalism, this is a huge problem when kids get out of the home on their own and discovery the evidence against young earth creationism is overwhelming. The evidence against many fundamentalist pillars of faith (which really shouldn't be pillars) is strong enough that this causes a faith crisis. Throw in the huge shift in social norms the past decade over sexuality and it's a big conflict.

Now to a certain degree I think Mormons are facing this as well. Again many of those who have deep problems with Mormonism on historic or theological terms often demand that Mormonism be read only through the lens of a certain type of fundamentalism. So perhaps the two movements are more closely related than it appears at first glance. 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

30 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers. Link below...

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/22494-how-the-new-christian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel

Interesting article.

I found this interesting:

• One day my co-teacher and I decided to play "True or False." We casually went down a list of worldview questions with our class, sure that our little evangelicals would nail every question correctly.

  No. 1: Jesus is God. "True." Great job.

  No. 2: Jesus sinned. "False." Bingo!

  No. 3: Jesus is one of many ways to heaven. "True." What?!

  Shocked is the only way to describe how I felt. Hadn't they been listening to us? When I asked who taught them that, one girl said, "Coexist." Yes, these young evangelicals had been listening to their Sunday school teachers and their parents, but they had also been listening to their public school teachers, TV celebrities and rock stars.

 

If we are allowing these young people to think that there is any way to heaven other than Jesus Christ we are doing them a great disservice.  Is that what the "inclusiveness" trend is getting us?  A lie?  It does no good to have people attending a Church that does nothing to correct false beliefs but allows a desire for fellowshipping to trump the gospel.

[stemelbow]

If you are suggesting a big problem we face as a Church is we like to try to follow the lead of the conservative branch of evangelicalism, then yes, this is one of the reasons we are losing millennials.  Too bad too because we are supposed to be forging our own path.  But the pressure is too great to want to be aligned, I guess. 

[clarkgoble]

5 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

If you are suggesting a big problem we face as a Church is we like to try to follow the lead of the conservative branch of evangelicalism, then yes, this is one of the reasons we are losing millennials.  Too bad too because we are supposed to be forging our own path.  But the pressure is too great to want to be aligned, I guess. 

Although one could well note that the peak of that was in the 20th century - arguably in the 70's and 80's. Since then I think we've been differentiating ourselves more and more. I'd argue that the mild conflict between the theology of apologetics and the more traditional works of JFS and BRM is an example of that. You just don't see the McConkie style as much anymore although it persists in the old still in print Institute Manuals. But by and large the lessons have pulled back to focus more on the scriptures with little commentary and especially under Hinkley you had the church pulling back to a vaguer set of positions on theology.

The place we don't see a change is more on issues of practice - especially issues tied up with sexuality. That's a big issue in evangelicalism with many evangelicals starting to take a stance on chastity that the rest see as deeply problematic. This in turn in caught up with the problem of the shift of the young to the Nones where God doesn't do anything pesky like demand practices different from society's.

Edited March 23, 2017 by clarkgoble

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, clarkgoble said:

Although one could well note that the peak of that was in the 20th century - arguably in the 70's and 80's. Since then I think we've been differentiating ourselves more and more. I'd argue that the mild conflict between the theology of apologetics and the more traditional works of JFS and BRM is an example of that. You just don't see the McConkie style as much anymore although it persists in the old still in print Institute Manuals. But by and large the lessons have pulled back to focus more on the scriptures with little commentary and especially under Hinkley you had the church pulling back to a vaguer set of positions on theology.

Oh I agree with you on this.  The main issue as it relates to the Church being lead by evangelicalism these days is social and political, though.  And that's not easily going away. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers. Link below...

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/22494-how-the-new-christian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel

There are some studies (in other threads) about Millennials leaving religion in general. My personal experience with each decade since I joined the Church (as an adult, 1975), is that people in this age group leave in greater numbers than others; this generation is not different. I've seen this anecdotally and in the various studies the Church has shared with leadership over the years. The particular external pressure points to secularize certainly change from generation to generation, and the issues and effects seem to be cumulative and compounded by the increasing enmeshment of virtuality with reality, but the internal workings of human spirituality remain the same, as does the plan of happiness. I don't think there is any one solution; but the inspired council process is certainly the way to address individuals' needs. On a very general level, it seems the Church messaging for adults (media content, venues and format) has been heavily geared toward the Millennial psyche. Funny how the rest of us can relate to that as well!

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers. Link below...

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/22494-how-the-new-christian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel .
 

I especially like Vicari's quotation of Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

Quote

"Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate."

Unfortunately, she doesn't quite see that it is the strong alignment between evangelicalism and totalitarian right politics which so disturbed Bonhoeffer and which disturbs many young evangelical offspring today.  It is no accident that, after World War II, most German youth were furious with their parents for having believed the lies of Nazism.  They rejected the hypocrisy then, just as modern millennials often reject a version of Jesus who supposedly favors mailed-fist solutions to societal problems -- instead of the kindness, love, and tolerance which the real Jesus inevitably showed to the poor and persecuted.  Their parents have been unable to read Scripture without a desire to impose their particular political Gospel via governmental law and force.  Bye, bye freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

 

[The Nehor]

This space previously held a dumb comment not up to the exalted posting standards of this fine board.

Edited March 23, 2017 by The Nehor

[Gray]

4 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers. Link below...

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/22494-how-the-new-christian-left-is-twisting-the-gospel
 

 

 

Fundamentalist thinks kids should get off his lawn. News at 11.

[Bobbieaware]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I especially like Vicari's quotation of Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

Unfortunately, she doesn't quite see that it is the strong alignment between evangelicalism and totalitarian right politics which so disturbed Bonhoeffer and which disturbs many young evangelical offspring today.  It is no accident that, after World War II, most German youth were furious with their parents for having believed the lies of Nazism.  They rejected the hypocrisy then, just as modern millennials often reject a version of Jesus who supposedly favors mailed-fist solutions to societal problems -- instead of the kindness, love, and tolerance which the real Jesus inevitably showed to the poor and persecuted.  Their parents have been unable to read Scripture without a desire to impose their particular political Gospel via governmental law and force.  Bye, bye freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

 

Well then, I guess some of these abused millennial Evangelicals of which you speak are finally getting exactly what they should have been getting from their oppressive parents all throughout their formative years. For those millennials who have moved away from the tyrannical Church's of their parents' generation, to align themselves with the new liberal feel-good Evangelical churches that are based on unconditional love, acceptance, tolerance, inclusivity and compassion, they are finally get to experience what the true love of God is all about.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[carbon dioxide]

8 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

A very enlightening and well-written article. It seems the problems associated with keeping the millennial generation active in church, faithful and diligent in keeping the commandments of God, and having a sound, scripturally-grounded understanding of the gospel isn't just a vexing contemporary issue for the Latter-Day Saints. The author also presents evidence that "progressivizing" the Church to conform to the secular trends of modern society only serves to create abysmally ignorant, morally compromised, wishy washy believers.
 

I think we are spending too much time on the millennials.  Perhaps we need to focus on the next generation-- Generation Z.  Perhaps they will be a better lot.

[Bobbieaware]

13 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

I think we are spending too much time on the millennials.  Perhaps we need to focus on the next generation-- Generation Z.  Perhaps they will be a better lot.

A dim prospect when one considers Generation Z will be the children of the Millennials.

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

A dim prospect when one considers Generation Z will be the children of the Millennials.

Some of them.  My kids are Generation Z but I am a Gen Xer.   I don't actually have much confidence that Gen Z will be any better.  The trend in society tends to go downward.  If the Book of Mormon cycle tells us anything it is as long as there is peace and prosperity in the land, the people tend to care less and less about spiritual stuff. They have too much time and pleasures to distract them.   The thing that will change of the younger generation is not more peace and prosperity but war, natural disasters,  ect.  As I look at the world as a big chess board, I see all the pieces showing that the 21st century will be far more eventful in terms of war, earthquakes and other natural disasters, and economic problems.  The younger generation can choose to humble themselves and repent or they will be compelled to do it.  Better to do it willingly but being forced works also despite the fact that many will perish as we move into the next part of the Book of Mormon cycle.

Edited March 24, 2017 by carbon dioxide

[Glenn101]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Unfortunately, she doesn't quite see that it is the strong alignment between evangelicalism and totalitarian right politics which so disturbed Bonhoeffer and which disturbs many young evangelical offspring today.  It is no accident that, after World War II, most German youth were furious with their parents for having believed the lies of Nazism.  They rejected the hypocrisy then, just as modern millennials often reject a version of Jesus who supposedly favors mailed-fist solutions to societal problems -- instead of the kindness, love, and tolerance which the real Jesus inevitably showed to the poor and persecuted.  Their parents have been unable to read Scripture without a desire to impose their particular political Gospel via governmental law and force.  Bye, bye freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

Robert, that may be a part of the problem, for some of the millenials, but I believe that the problem is much more complex. For some reason, many of the millenials do not feel the need for a God, for a Savior, or for miracles. They have been raised in a world where the miraculous of old is an everyday thing. They have been steeped in movies with "heroes" that blur the line between reality, virtuality, and fantasy. So many seem to be living more in a virtual world than in reality.

I have a son that fathered a child. Due to some bad actions by the mother against the child, they are now divorced. My wife and I take care of the child, more as parents than grandparents. My son goes to work, comes home and disappears into his room where he eats, sleeps, watches movies, and engages in endless virtual reality types of games. That has become his life. He emerges to smoke a cigarette and to speak to his daughter briefly before she gore off to school. He has no interest in church, God, salvation, or whatever.

He is maybe an extremes case, but I see varying levels of that in the other children that I come in contact with on a regular basis.

This is a problem, but I am sure that it is not the only one.

But, if a person does not feel the need for something, he or she will not go looking for it and will be disinterested if and when it is offered.

Glenn

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Robert, that may be a part of the problem, for some of the millenials, but I believe that the problem is much more complex. For some reason, many of the millenials do not feel the need for a God, for a Savior, or for miracles. They have been raised in a world where the miraculous of old is an everyday thing. They have been steeped in movies with "heroes" that blur the line between reality, virtuality, and fantasy. So many seem to be living more in a virtual world than in reality.

I have a son that fathered a child. Due to some bad actions by the mother against the child, they are now divorced. My wife and I take care of the child, more as parents than grandparents. My son goes to work, comes home and disappears into his room where he eats, sleeps, watches movies, and engages in endless virtual reality types of games. That has become his life. He emerges to smoke a cigarette and to speak to his daughter briefly before she gore off to school. He has no interest in church, God, salvation, or whatever.

He is maybe an extremes case, but I see varying levels of that in the other children that I come in contact with on a regular basis.

This is a problem, but I am sure that it is not the only one.

But, if a person does not feel the need for something, he or she will not go looking for it and will be disinterested if and when it is offered.

Glenn

Yeh, drift is a problem which hits a number of us as we learn and mature.  There are solutions, however, and it is clear from the Icelandic Model that a healthy, purposeful society is successfully built by giving three things to the youth:

1.  Quantity time spent with parents (not quality time).

2.  Community-wide resources for youth activities, provided on a long-term and generous financial basis -- with adult supervision.

3.  Hard 10 pm curfew for youth, fully enforced.

Quote

“We learned through the studies that we need to create circumstances in which kids can lead healthy lives, and they do not need to use substances, because life is fun, and they have plenty to do—and they are supported by parents who will spend time with them.”  Emma Young, “How Iceland Got Teens to Say No to Drugs,” Atlantic, Jan 19, 2017, online at https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/01/teens-drugs-iceland/513668/ .

There are many other aspects to this program, such as regular parental patrols of the neighborhood to detect problems, along with direct parental involvement in the schools (where parents are seldom allowed access or influence), but solutions should be tailored to community needs.  There is no cookie-cuter solution.

The LDS Church spends a lot of money on youth, because that is where the need is greatest and potential success is most likely.

[california boy]

20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I especially like Vicari's quotation of Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

Unfortunately, she doesn't quite see that it is the strong alignment between evangelicalism and totalitarian right politics which so disturbed Bonhoeffer and which disturbs many young evangelical offspring today.  It is no accident that, after World War II, most German youth were furious with their parents for having believed the lies of Nazism.  They rejected the hypocrisy then, just as modern millennials often reject a version of Jesus who supposedly favors mailed-fist solutions to societal problems -- instead of the kindness, love, and tolerance which the real Jesus inevitably showed to the poor and persecuted.  Their parents have been unable to read Scripture without a desire to impose their particular political Gospel via governmental law and force.  Bye, bye freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

 

Robert.  This is very insightful.  I think you have really identified a big part of the problem.

[california boy]

12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Some of them.  My kids are Generation Z but I am a Gen Xer.   I don't actually have much confidence that Gen Z will be any better.  The trend in society tends to go downward.  If the Book of Mormon cycle tells us anything it is as long as there is peace and prosperity in the land, the people tend to care less and less about spiritual stuff. They have too much time and pleasures to distract them.   The thing that will change of the younger generation is not more peace and prosperity but war, natural disasters,  ect.  As I look at the world as a big chess board, I see all the pieces showing that the 21st century will be far more eventful in terms of war, earthquakes and other natural disasters, and economic problems.  The younger generation can choose to humble themselves and repent or they will be compelled to do it.  Better to do it willingly but being forced works also despite the fact that many will perish as we move into the next part of the Book of Mormon cycle.

You are counting on earthquakes and natural disasters as some kind of proof to millennials that God is unhappy with humanity and so is going to teach them a lesson by blowing up villages with volcanos.  Yeah it is an old tactic that still surfaces after Hurricane Sandy or Katrina.  God did this because of the wickedness of the people.  So straighten up or more destruction will come.  How many millennials are buying into this kind of God these days.  For the most part, millennials are no longer believers of superstition that believes natural disasters are God's judgement.  Gay marriage did not cause hurricane Sandy.  Wars are started by evil men in the name of God, not God.  This kind of rherotic only pushes people further away from religion in my opinion.  When religion looses credibility of being true, it looses followers.  

[clarkgoble]

21 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Oh I agree with you on this.  The main issue as it relates to the Church being lead by evangelicalism these days is social and political, though.  And that's not easily going away. 

I think there are two separate issues. One is the issue of pluralism in the public square where all sides in the matter are disagreeing with the tension largely being due to polarization and no common ground. The issue fundamentally isn't what people can do (basically no one is arguing adultery or homosexuality ought be illegal) but rather what the public norms should be. Now for this I blame the religious conservatives who should have seen this was coming decades ago and set up a pluralism they could live with back in the 90's. They didn't and now the other side feels no need to compromise (completely understandable from their perspective)

Past the issue of the public sphere and social norms is the issue of sexual mores. It's there that Mormons have the most in common with Evangelicals but for pretty compelling reasons. The scriptures against extra-marital sex are pretty clear as are the scriptures on marriage. Now of course Christianity is pretty good picking and choosing how to allegorize texts, which is why these are big deals for most liberal protestants who for the most part ignore these parts. For people who from a hermeneutic basis don't feel like they can simply dismiss scripture that's just not a live option.

So I'd say this is less an issue of Mormons following evangelicals than both having a stance towards scripture that requires these responses. Mormons perhaps have more potential flexibility only because we believe in continuing revelation so a prophet can trump and particular reading of scripture. Of course whether they will or not is an other matter entirely. But again it's simply a very different logic from what evangelicals face.

Tying this to youth, to the degree that youth want religious morals to reflect social morals that means they'll simply abandon the religions where they don't match. Nothing one can do about this except convince more of the youth to believe scripture. Which for Mormons gets into the spirit and for evangelicals gets into faith. Again a somewhat different logic even though evangelicals have a certain experiential aspect to all of this, although still not quite how Mormons think of it.

This then gets back to why many religious people are still fighting the "last war." The only real choices are getting social norms and religious norms closer together. Either the religious norms have to change or the social norms do. While I think it's a lost cause shifting social norms at this stage, that's what many are doing. The only other alternative is withdrawing farther into fairly self-sustaining social subgroups (which to a degree both Mormons and evangelicals had already been doing).

[probablyHagoth7]

16 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I think we are spending too much time on the millennials.  Perhaps we need to focus on the next generation-- Generation Z.  Perhaps they will be a better lot.

Huh?

Are you suggesting that we give up on an entire generation?

[california boy]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

Nothing one can do about this except convince more of the youth to believe scripture.

Just how are you going to get the youth to believe in scriptures that claim the earth is only 6,000 years old, there was a global flood that killed every human and animal on the earth except those that were on an ark, donkey that talks, earth stops spinning, natural disasters attributed to God's wrath, etc.  Seriously, I would like your answer on how your plan would work.

[stemelbow]

2 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

I think there are two separate issues. One is the issue of pluralism in the public square where all sides in the matter are disagreeing with the tension largely being due to polarization and no common ground. The issue fundamentally isn't what people can do (basically no one is arguing adultery or homosexuality ought be illegal) but rather what the public norms should be. Now for this I blame the religious conservatives who should have seen this was coming decades ago and set up a pluralism they could live with back in the 90's. They didn't and now the other side feels no need to compromise (completely understandable from their perspective)

Past the issue of the public sphere and social norms is the issue of sexual mores. It's there that Mormons have the most in common with Evangelicals but for pretty compelling reasons. The scriptures against extra-marital sex are pretty clear as are the scriptures on marriage. Now of course Christianity is pretty good picking and choosing how to allegorize texts, which is why these are big deals for most liberal protestants who for the most part ignore these parts. For people who from a hermeneutic basis don't feel like they can simply dismiss scripture that's just not a live option.

So I'd say this is less an issue of Mormons following evangelicals than both having a stance towards scripture that requires these responses. Mormons perhaps have more potential flexibility only because we believe in continuing revelation so a prophet can trump and particular reading of scripture. Of course whether they will or not is an other matter entirely. But again it's simply a very different logic from what evangelicals face.

Tying this to youth, to the degree that youth want religious morals to reflect social morals that means they'll simply abandon the religions where they don't match. Nothing one can do about this except convince more of the youth to believe scripture. Which for Mormons gets into the spirit and for evangelicals gets into faith. Again a somewhat different logic even though evangelicals have a certain experiential aspect to all of this, although still not quite how Mormons think of it.

This then gets back to why many religious people are still fighting the "last war." The only real choices are getting social norms and religious norms closer together. Either the religious norms have to change or the social norms do. While I think it's a lost cause shifting social norms at this stage, that's what many are doing. The only other alternative is withdrawing farther into fairly self-sustaining social subgroups (which to a degree both Mormons and evangelicals had already been doing).

And I'd part ways with your thinking at the point of "So I'd say this is less an issue of Mormons following evangelicals than both having a stance towards scripture that requires these responses. Mormons perhaps have more potential flexibility only because we believe in continuing revelation so a prophet can trump and particular reading of scripture. Of course whether they will or not is an other matter entirely. But again it's simply a very different logic from what evangelicals face."

This feels less about sticking to scripture and more about adding to scripture that which has been regarded as morality in our culture and tradition.  THus, it's less about the Church taking a lead, relying on revelation and more about the Church following the lead of the larger evangelical culture on issues as they arise. 

Also,

"Tying this to youth, to the degree that youth want religious morals to reflect social morals that means they'll simply abandon the religions where they don't match. Nothing one can do about this except convince more of the youth to believe scripture. "

I think a healthy view of scripture includes an understanding the scripture was written in a foreign culture marked with a foreign set of traditions, a very different point of view.  It's healthy for youth to learn that.  It's not good to suggest youth are to be condemned in some sense because they don't view the traditions and cultural mores of societies long gone hold the secret to our success.  They simply need to know they are their own generation that can learn from the past, but not necessarily be directed by the past. 

[Avatar4321]

I read an article last night about a study showing that the reason millenials have been turning away from churches is largely due to the breakdown of the family. I'll see if I can find it later

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

This feels less about sticking to scripture and more about adding to scripture that which has been regarded as morality in our culture and tradition.  THus, it's less about the Church taking a lead, relying on revelation and more about the Church following the lead of the larger evangelical culture on issues as they arise. 

If you're talking about the public sphere that's reasonable. There's not a lot of scripture arguing for how we shape the public sphere. There's first Jesus' adopting Hillel's view of leniency towards the Romans and our own history of largely attempting to withdraw from society.  If you're talking about things like gay marriage, gay relations and extra-marital relations within church doctrine I don't see how you can argue that.

Quote

think a healthy view of scripture includes an understanding the scripture was written in a foreign culture marked with a foreign set of traditions, a very different point of view.  It's healthy for youth to learn that.  It's not good to suggest youth are to be condemned in some sense because they don't view the traditions and cultural mores of societies long gone hold the secret to our success.  They simply need to know they are their own generation that can learn from the past, but not necessarily be directed by the past. 

The question ultimately is what commands are indexed to a particular culture and time (such as the Law of Moses) and which apply to us today. The problem with your position here though is that modern revelation has consistently emphasized chastity for our culture and time.

Effectively the argument is the liberal protestant one where one explains away such passages as not relevant. However the grounds upon which one does this matter. Further I don't see how they're available to Mormons.

Edited March 24, 2017 by clarkgoble
fixed typo

[Gray]

3 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Nothing one can do about this except convince more of the youth to believe scripture.

It would be great if there were some effort to teach the rising generation to take scriptures seriously. But instead the approach seems to be to either get them to take them literally, or to reject them. Neither option takes scripture seriously.