Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 If it is not intrusive, would you explain what you do when your kids or wife are sick? Making the choice for oneself to not go to a doctor no matter what...agency allows that choice. Not sure about others though...
pogi Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, etz said: No, it is not an oath. What about the oath and covenant of the priesthood?
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, etz said: I repeat: you were fully answered above. And if he is asking because he does not understand how you get your interpretation, if your intent is to teach, does not refusing to engage him prevent that teaching? 1
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Calm said: If it is not intrusive, would you explain what you do when your kids or wife are sick? Making the choice for oneself to not go to a doctor no matter what...agency allows that choice. Not sure about others though... I obey the law regarding children. I will not violate my wife's privacy.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, pogi said: What about the oath and covenant of the priesthood? The Father makes the oath. We do not. Doctrine and Covenants 84:40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 Oath: " solemn appeal to a deity, or to some revered person or thing, to witness one's determination to speak the truth, to keep a promise, etc.: to testify upon oath" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oath "that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them" How does this not qualify as an oath in your view? Appeal to deity: "O God, the Eternal Father" witness to keep a promise: "witness unto thee...willing to take...the name...remember him...and keep his commandments..."
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Nah. You are not choosing between Christ's word and the EoM. You are choosing an incorrect view of Christ's word that doesn't take into account any other revelation. Provide the other revelation and we can talk about it.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Calm said: Oath: " solemn appeal to a deity, or to some revered person or thing, to witness one's determination to speak the truth, to keep a promise, etc.: to testify upon oath" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oath "that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them" How does this not qualify as an oath in your view? Appeal to deity: "O God, the Eternal Father" witness to keep a promise: "witness unto thee...willing to take...the name...remember him...and keep his commandments..." I prefer to avoid presentism.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 Anyways, what's the point of grilling me on the details of my life, or jousting with me about my lack of deference to those who diverge from the word of God? I'm not fishing for disciples of etz. What would be the point of that? If you acknowledge the commandments of the Lord as contained in the Holy Scriptures, you are likewise on the hook to obey them inasmuch as you say you have a covenant with the Lord to obey his commandments. If you are the Lord's disciple, you will likewise reject teachings which diverge from his commandments. If you are not the Lord's disciple, then what is your interest in even discussing these things? And if you do not acknowledge the commandments of the Lord as contained in the Holy Scriptures, how are you the Lord's disciple?
pogi Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, etz said: I prefer to avoid presentism. Then abandon your use of the word "perfect" as presently understood.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 And to answer a question asked a ways back: Quote Doctrine and Covenants 88 78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand; 79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms— 80 That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you. 81 Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor. 82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads. Every man.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, pogi said: Then abandon your use of the word "perfect" as presently understood. Unfortunately, I cannot abandon the truth.
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, etz said: I prefer to avoid presentism. Not seeing the difference. A witness is being made. People who make vague statements and refuse to provide details are not teaching. If you sincerely mean to teach, you need to put more effort into it to explain and demonstrate. Otherwise, you are in effect simply saying "look at me, I am better than you are". Edited January 16, 2017 by Calm
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, Calm said: Not seeing the difference. People who make vague statements and refuse to provide details are not teaching. And what you did not see also was the word "oath" or any variant thereof.
The Nehor Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, etz said: I obey the law regarding children. I will not violate my wife's privacy. Saying whether you would go to the doctor if your children needed help is a violation of your wife's privacy? Uh-huh.....that is not crazy. 16 minutes ago, etz said: Anyways, what's the point of grilling me on the details of my life, or jousting with me about my lack of deference to those who diverge from the word of God? I'm not fishing for disciples of etz. What would be the point of that? That is why we are trying to figure out. I mean....you keep suggesting you are perfectly obedient to every commandment. Does God endorse this use of your time? 16 minutes ago, etz said: If you acknowledge the commandments of the Lord as contained in the Holy Scriptures, you are likewise on the hook to obey them inasmuch as you say you have a covenant with the Lord to obey his commandments. If you are the Lord's disciple, you will likewise reject teachings which diverge from his commandments. If you are not the Lord's disciple, then what is your interest in even discussing these things? And if you do not acknowledge the commandments of the Lord as contained in the Holy Scriptures, how are you the Lord's disciple? What if I am the Lord's disciple, acknowledge his commandments as contained in the Holy Scriptures, reject his teachings, have a mediocre interest in discussing these things, and feel I am on the hook to disobey my covenants? What would you suggest? Edited January 16, 2017 by The Nehor
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 By the way, 1828 Webster's is useless for understanding what Jesus meant by oath in 30ish AD.
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, etz said: And what you did not see also was the word "oath" or any variant thereof. Well, I don't see the word "computer" or any variant thereof in any of the commandments, so I guess I don't have to sell mine to obey God's words according to your interpretation.
pogi Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, etz said: Unfortunately, I cannot abandon the truth. Is it true that Christ used the word "perfect" the way we do today? It is presentism to think that Christ used the word "perfect" in the present Greco-Roman usage.
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: Saying whether you would go to the doctor if your children needed help is a violation of your wife's privacy? Uh-huh.....that is not crazy. That is why we are trying to figure out. I mean....you keep suggesting you are perfectly obedient to every commandment. Does God endorse this use of your time? What if I am the Lord's disciple, acknowledge his commandment as contained in the Holy Scriptures, reject his teachings, have a mediocre interest in discussing these things, and feel I am on the hook to disobey my covenants? What would you suggest? You people asked me questions and I answered. I did not volunteer information about myself, nor boast of my righteousness. My observance of the commandments of the Lord is irrelevant to whether they are the Lord's commandments or not. Yes, God endorses this use of my time, as I just cited D&C 88 to that effect in response to your earlier inquiry. I would suggest trying an experiment upon the word of God - why not trying being a crazy contrarian religious nut who takes the Lord at his word, and see what happens?
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Calm said: By the way, 1828 Webster's is useless for understanding what Jesus meant by oath in 30ish AD. But it is useful for determining what the Sacrament means, which was the topic you were previously discussing and to which I was responding.
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) "what's the point of grilling me on the details of my life" When Jesus and Joseph taught, people could see how they lived their lives to see how they intended their words to be put into action and if they were hypocrites or true to their word. All we have is your words on the computer screen and you have shared very little of your life or even your testimony of God (or is that in your view making an oath you shouldn't make). Sharing how you are able to implement God's teachings in your life may encourage others to do the same or at least help them understand you are not a hypocrite if they don't how it can be done. Edited January 16, 2017 by Calm
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, etz said: But it is useful for determining what the Sacrament means, which was the topic you were previously discussing and to which I was responding. The Sacrament includes the word "testify" and "witness", which are in the definition of "oath", so why is it not an oath in your view? edit: okay, it is late and I imagined "testify", but I was right about "witness" Edited January 16, 2017 by Calm
etz Posted January 16, 2017 Author Posted January 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Calm said: Well, I don't see the word "computer" or any variant thereof in any of the commandments, so I guess I don't have to sell mine to obey God's words according to your interpretation. I never asked if you keep the commandments. I haven't a need to. Your service to God in obedience to his commandments is between you and God.
Calm Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, etz said: - why not trying being a crazy contrarian religious nut who takes the Lord at his word, and see what happens? Whether or not you can actually follow the commandments as you understand them does have bearing on whether you have done anything to demonstrate your interpretation is valid. Jesus and Joseph taught much by example. Your example so far comes across as one of pride and carelessness of those you claim to want to teach since you are refusing to help them understand.
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