The MoTab Choir Performing at the Inauguration: Politicized?

[stemelbow]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Brave new world indeed. 

Reminds me of Ralph Hancock's talk at the last FairMormon Conference I which he spoke of a conversation he had with someone who said a person ought to repent for having the temerity to try to teach someone about the principle of repentance. So-called "progressive Mormonism" is a version of Mormonism that seems alien and out-of-kilter to me. 

It's possible Ralph and Bobbie have misunderstood the positions of those whom they are trying to speak for.  It's also possible there are some odd balls out there saying whatever comes to mind.  Whatever the case it's tough to make a case out of hearsay when wanting to make a point like "so-called progressive Mormonism" seems alien and out-of-kilter to you.  I don't know any reasonable LDS person would call Ralph to repentance for teaching about the principle.  Likewise I don't know any reasonable LDS person who would suggest that he/she "not only supports the unlimited right to abortion and partial birth abortion but even went so far as to say it's virtuous, noble and self-affirming when a woman decides to have an abortion for any reason whatsoever".  Either the two were speaking to really out there odd balls or they are misrepresenting or misunderstanding the other's position. 

But again, this thread has been a pretty unfortunate one.  This little bit only touches on one part of the misfortune. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by stemelbow

[stemelbow]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

By the way, an issue has been raised here about the Deseret News during the campaign having called on Trump to resign his candidacy. I was reminded today that the Deseret News called on Bill Clinton to resign his presidency in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal. Of course, back then, Hillary Stand-by-Your-Man Clinton was busily vilifying Bill's female victims. 

So what did the Deseret News do when they learned Bill would not resign his presidency? 

[why me]

18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

By the way, an issue has been raised here about the Deseret News during the campaign having called on Trump to resign his candidacy. I was reminded today that the Deseret News called on Bill Clinton to resign his presidency in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal. Of course, back then, Hillary Stand-by-Your-Man Clinton was busily vilifying Bill's female victims. 

Your newspaper would have had a difficult time supporting trump because of the scandals brought up in the media and Utah had a special presidential candidate where mormons could cast their vote. I find it amazing just how progressives and democrats have become trapped. They are now anti assange when just a few years ago, he was their hero. And the same with snowden. And how progressives are now praising the CIA and other intelliegence agencies when just a few years ago, they were critics. It shows just how one man can turn them all upside down in their beliefs.

If you want to see something interesting go to youtube and watch bill clinton's inauguration. And see Barbara Streisand sing three songs for bill.

I do believe that if bill were again elected president hollywood would come out in force to perform for him. And if so, we can see that the boycott now is nothing but fluff. I  wonder how his victims felt about this event. And also in 1997.

Edited January 5, 2017 by why me

[Bobbieaware]

23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Brave new world indeed. 

Reminds me of Ralph Hancock's talk at the last FairMormon Conference I which he spoke of a conversation he had with someone who said a person ought to repent for having the temerity to try to teach someone about the principle of repentance. So-called "progressive Mormonism" is a version of Mormonism that seems alien and out-of-kilter to me. 

This encapsulates what I now believe was the devil's plan in the war in heaven. I no longer believe he was proposing to use force to compel all of us to keep the commandments of God. Rather, I now believe his plan called for a radical redefinition of sin, a belief system wherein the only real remaining sin is being judgmental. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[BlueDreams]

25 minutes ago, why me said:

Many of those votes came from california and nyc. It is shown in the map. I don't think that a republican can ever win the popular vote again in a presidential election. The demographics are against it. Thus, it is good to have the electoral college which makes the race more interesting. They were quite off when looked upon nationally. All experts agree on this. There is also a reason why many democrats and progressives want to abolish the electoral college and it has to do with demographics and the almost impossibility for republican to win the presidency by popular vote.

That's also false. Here is a map that uses a gradation effect to give you an idea of the actual mix of voters. Democrat heavy areas aren't simply in those regions. They follow much of the coast, most larger city populations, and places where you get more ethnic minorities: 

Found here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2016/

It would really be nice if people would stop working on making broad brushed statements.....it's especially ironic/hypocritical if one is also critical of Chamberlin for her statements.

I also said the pollsters weren't ENTIRELY off. They were still off.

I'm going to forgo talking about the electoral college because that's solely politics and that's not meant for here. 

 

With luv,

BD

[BlueDreams]

11 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

This encapsulates what I now believe was the devil's plan in the war in heaven. I no longer believe he was proposing to use force to compel all of us to keep the commandments of God. Rather, I now believe his plan called for a radical redefinition of sin, a belief system wherein the only real remaining sin is being judgmental. 

As stemelbow mentioned, these seem hyperbolic claims....painting a "group" of people with broad brush...a group with no solid definition in the first place. But just a generic "progressive" that most who may be considered progressive in one way or another would probably disagree with. And again there seems a bit of irony/hypocracy of lambasting a person for what they see as hyperbolic claims and then making one's own broad sweeping negative generalizations and hyperbolic claims (not just you, on this thread) for an entire group they find strange or wrong.

Does no one see the irony???

With luv,

BD

Edited January 5, 2017 by BlueDreams

[Calm]

1 hour ago, why me said:

Many of those votes came from california and nyc.

They are still Americans and count when talking about whether or not Americans like Trump.

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

By the way, an issue has been raised here about the Deseret News during the campaign having called on Trump to resign his candidacy. I was reminded today that the Deseret News called on Bill Clinton to resign his presidency in the wake of the Lewinsky scandal. Of course, back then, Hillary Stand-by-Your-Man Clinton was busily vilifying Bill's female victims. 

CFR please

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, why me said:

Since Hillary Clinton is going to Trump'a inauguration and her husband too. And since the Bushes are going and Jimmy Carter too, why not the choir? I see no pressure for the above former presidents and their wives not to go. They are there to support the peaceful transition of power. And so why not the choir? I think that many people are being too overly dramatic about the choir going to the inauguration. I say, lets wait and see what happens are the event. I am sure that it will be fine and enjoyable to watch.

So you just skip that last part, eh? :/

[Bobbieaware]

43 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

As stemelbow mentioned, these seem hyperbolic claims....painting a "group" of people with broad brush...a group with no solid definition in the first place. But just a generic "progressive" that most who may be considered progressive in one way or another would probably disagree with. And again there seems a bit of irony/hypocracy of lambasting a person for what they see as hyperbolic claims and then making one's own broad sweeping negative generalizations and hyperbolic claims (not just you, on this thread) for an entire group they find strange or wrong.

Does no one see the irony???

With luv,

BD

Yes, there are varying shades of progressives within the progressive movement. But when you put all the varying shades of progressives together and blend them to make a single combined color, I believe the movement as a composit whole is still destructive to the limited government/self-government model championed by the inspired Founding Fathers, and that too much of what it espouses is antithetical to the teachings of the Restored Gospel of Christ. And you can count on the fact that as the world continues to ripen in iniquity the progressive movement will become progressively more and more radical and antithetical to the religion of Christ. Even then there will likely still be a fair number of 'moderates' within the ranks of the progressive movement but they will be viewed as naive idealists by those who lust for power at the top of the pyramid.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

So what did the Deseret News do when they learned Bill would not resign his presidency? 

What would you have expected it to do? Beyond reporting and editorializing (and possibly influencing public opinion thereby) there's not much a newspaper can do. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

It's possible Ralph and Bobbie have misunderstood the positions of those whom they are trying to speak for.  It's also possible there are some odd balls out there saying whatever comes to mind.  Whatever the case it's tough to make a case out of hearsay when wanting to make a point like "so-called progressive Mormonism" seems alien and out-of-kilter to you.  I don't know any reasonable LDS person would call Ralph to repentance for teaching about the principle.  Likewise I don't know any reasonable LDS person who would suggest that he/she "not only supports the unlimited right to abortion and partial birth abortion but even went so far as to say it's virtuous, noble and self-affirming when a woman decides to have an abortion for any reason whatsoever".  Either the two were speaking to really out there odd balls or they are misrepresenting or misunderstanding the other's position. 

But again, this thread has been a pretty unfortunate one.  This little bit only touches on one part of the misfortune. 

Ralph spoke in the context of a growing view among ostensibly faithful Church members that love trumps law and obedience to commandments (in reality, both are vital; see my sig quote from Elder Oaks). I think he made a reasonable case that this not just an isolated thing. 

But I have more in mind than just these two anecdotes. The notion that the Church will or should one day repeal the law of chastity, approve gay marriage and solemnize it in our temples is highly alien to me. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[why me]

23 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

So you just skip that last part, eh? :/

What last part? If Hillary is going and if all the past presidents are going, why not the choir? No one is attacking jimmy carter or hillary or bill. Or the bushes. Maybe trump should just be sworn in and get to work. Why have any performances? Back in 1993 bill clinton had michael jackson perform holding children and bill cosby was there. At the end of the day, who needs to be entertained by hollywood? We will all know more 6 months from now. Then, we all can have opinions about his presidency. And why listen to the left wing of the spectrum? Is the united states so controlled by the so called left wing? I can only imagine if Trump supporters were pressuring people not to perform for clinton. I can only imagine the reaction of the media about trump supporters.

[Scott Lloyd]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

CFR please

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/652099/President-Clinton-should-resign.html

[Duncan]

Just now, why me said:

What last part? If Hillary is going and if all the past presidents are going, why not the choir? No one is attacking jimmy carter or hillary or bill. Or the bushes. Maybe trump should just be sworn in and get to work. Why have any performances? Back in 1993 bill clinton had michael jackson perform holding children and bill cosby was there. At the end of the day, who needs to be entertained by hollywood? We will all know more 6 months from now. Then, we all can have opinions about his presidency. And why listen to the left wing of the spectrum? Is the united states so controlled by the so called left wing? I can only imagine if Trump supporters were pressuring people not to perform for clinton. I can only imagine the reaction of the media about trump supporters.

I don't think Trump cares about anybody other than himself and making money and okay well probably Putin. Why have any performances isn't a new concept. Mind you I LOVED it when Don Rickles played for Raygun

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/652099/President-Clinton-should-resign.html

Thanks, hadn't heard that being in Canada.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

As stemelbow mentioned, these seem hyperbolic claims....painting a "group" of people with broad brush...a group with no solid definition in the first place. But just a generic "progressive" that most who may be considered progressive in one way or another would probably disagree with. And again there seems a bit of irony/hypocracy of lambasting a person for what they see as hyperbolic claims and then making one's own broad sweeping negative generalizations and hyperbolic claims (not just you, on this thread) for an entire group they find strange or wrong.

Does no one see the irony???

With luv,

BD

My perception is that "progressive Mormon" is a self-styled appellation that is more-or-less ideologically based.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thanks, hadn't heard that being in Canada.

I myself had forgotten it -- if I ever knew it.

[why me]

11 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't think Trump cares about anybody other than himself and making money and okay well probably Putin. Why have any performances isn't a new concept. Mind you I LOVED it when Don Rickles played for Raygun

I don't know about this. However when one thinks about it, isn't that the USA? It is all about money. People loved trump on the apprentice. And shark tank is extremely popular. However, here is a beautiful story about jackie evanko: who will sing the anthem:

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/05/americas-got-talent-star-lands-contract-after-trump-harassment/?_ga=1.237527365.492004910.1459201243

Lets hope that the choir will now get more of a listen to.

Edited January 5, 2017 by why me

[Duncan]

Just now, why me said:

I don't know about this. However when one thinks about it, isn't that the USA? It is all about money. People loved trump on the apprentice. And shark tank is extremely popular. However, here is a beautiful story about jackie evanko: who will sing the anthem:

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/05/americas-got-talent-star-lands-contract-after-trump-harassment/?_ga=1.237527365.492004910.1459201243

Lets hope that the choir will now get more of a listen to.

Are you not American? The people that won on the Apprentice loved him, but the ones that didn't probably didn't! hahahhaha! I never watched the Apprentice, because of my standards for TV programming and I don't watch shows about sharks because they are boring

[Bobbieaware]

Duplicate

Edited January 6, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Bobbieaware]

57 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't think Trump cares about anybody other than himself and making money and okay well probably Putin. Why have any performances isn't a new concept. Mind you I LOVED it when Don Rickles played for Raygun

One thing Trump most certainly does care about is not wanting to be thought of as a loser. For that one reason alone it's highly likely he's going to move heaven and earth to get the US economy moving forward at a strong pace. He'll also likely do all in his power to destroy ISIS and put a big brake on illegal immigration. I don't say this because I'm a big fan of Trump (I am not) but because I know he has a very big ego and bacause of that he most assuredly does not want to go down in history as a failure. He may or may not care about anybody but himself, but it's precisely because he does care about his reputation that it's unlikely he's going to use the office of President to only further enrich himself, for if he does cynically use the Presidency only as a means enrich himself he will be widely viewed by nearly everyone as a fraud and failure and that's something he will do anything to avoid.

Many economists believe the US economy is poised to take off in a very big way when a pro-business President takes office. If the economy does take off in a big way, people like you are going to blow a gasket when things improve. The anger and frustration will be made even worse if Trump doesn't turn out to be the fascist dictator the political left confidently says he's going to be.

By the way, if Hillary Clinton had won, do you believe she would also be unworthy of an inaugural performance by the MTC?

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Jeanne]

39 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Are you not American? The people that won on the Apprentice loved him, but the ones that didn't probably didn't! hahahhaha! I never watched the Apprentice, because of my standards for TV programming and I don't watch shows about sharks because they are boring

You missed out because some of it was really good and creative thinking.  I learned a lot about business and how it works from watching the show...all that it entails.  That being said, I have always loved advertising and would have loved to be a part of the advertising business.

[Duncan]

Just now, Bobbieaware said:

One thing Trump most certainly does care about is not wanting to be thought of as a loser. For that one reason alone it's highly likely he's going to move heaven and earth to get the US economy moving forward at a strong pace. He'll also likely do all in his power to destroy ISIS and put a big brake on illegal immigration. I don't say this because I'm a big fan of Trump (I am not) but because I know he has a very big ego and bacause of that he most assuredly does not want to go down in history as a failure. He may or may not care about anybody but himself, but it's precisely because he does care about his reputation that it's unlikely he's going to use the office of President to only further enrich himself, for if he does cynically use the Presidency only as a means enrich himself he will be widely viewed by nearly everyone as a fraud and failure and that's something he will do anything to avoid.

Many economists believe the US economy is poised to take off in a very big way when a pro-business President takes office. If the economy does take off in a big way, people like you are going to blow a gasket when things improve. The anger and frustration will be made even worse if Trump doesn't turn out to be the fascist dictator the political left confidently says he's going to be.

By the way, if Hillary Clinton had won, do you believe she would also be unworthy of an inaugural performance by the MTC?

I'm sure. I am all for the American economy doing well, Obama saved your skins because of the last republican PUSA you had in. Canada is the biggest trading partner with the US so more money is always nice but I wonder if Trump is the guy do that? interesting as this is it doesn't have anything to do with the Choir

If Clinton had won i'd be fine with the Choir performing but I don't know if she would invite them or what. I think they would be eked out by the million hollywood people that would be eager to participate

[Duncan]

Just now, Jeanne said:

You missed out because some of it was really good and creative thinking.  I learned a lot about business and how it works from watching the show...all that it entails.  That being said, I have always loved advertising and would have loved to be a part of the advertising business.

aha! I was too busy watching "Airwolf" and ""She's the Sheriff" with TV's Suzanne Somers!