Avatar4321 Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church— 19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. (D&C 107:18-19) read these last week and ivd had them stuck in my head. Is the Lord talking about priesthood offices or priesthood orders? Does this right belong to all ordained or just those who hold keys? I'm repeatedly brought to section 121 as i ponder it. what do we do to obtain these blessings?
CV75 Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 4 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: 18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church— 19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. (D&C 107:18-19) read these last week and ivd had them stuck in my head. Is the Lord talking about priesthood offices or priesthood orders? Does this right belong to all ordained or just those who hold keys? I'm repeatedly brought to section 121 as i ponder it. what do we do to obtain these blessings? I think it refers to both. Very few (The First Presidency and twelve) hold the keys directly, but they delegate them to many others according to their respective offices, and those who have delegation to preside can further delegate. The blessings of the order are available to all, as reflected as we become part of the order through the covenants and ordinances, everything from baptism to sealing. 1
Bobbieaware Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 20 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: 18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church— 19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. (D&C 107:18-19) read these last week and ivd had them stuck in my head. Is the Lord talking about priesthood offices or priesthood orders? Does this right belong to all ordained or just those who hold keys? I'm repeatedly brought to section 121 as i ponder it. what do we do to obtain these blessings? Read apostle Bruce R. McConkie's 1975 address titled, "Only an Elder," which can be readily found on LDS.org. 1
JLHPROF Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: 18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church— 19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. (D&C 107:18-19) In my opinion this has direct relation to direct personal revelation and temple prayer, and possibly to the highest order of priesthood. Something along the lines of what Joseph Smith taught: "I want every man that goes to be a king and a priest. When he gets on the mountains he may want to talk with his God" (DHC vol. 6, p. 224) "Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; …when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God." TPJS 150-51 "There are 3 grand principles or orders of Priesthood portrayed in this chapter 1st Levitical which was never able to administer a Blessing but only to bind heavy burdens which neither they nor their father able to bear. 2 Abrahams Patriarchal power which is the greatest yet experienced in this church 3d That of Melchisedec who had still greater power even power of an endless life of which was our Lord Jesus Christ which also Abraham obtained by the offering of his son Isaac which was not the power of a Prophet nor apostle nor Patriarch only but of King & Priest to God to open the windows of Heaven and pour out the peace & Law of endless Life to man& No man can attain to the Joint heirship with Jesus Christ with out being administered to by one having the same power & Authority of Melchisedec Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (WJS p 245) Edited December 29, 2016 by JLHPROF 2
theplains Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 5 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (WJS p 245) What do you mean by probation? Thanks, Jim
JLHPROF Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, theplains said: What do you mean by probation? Thanks, Jim Probation: "trial, experiment, test," from Old French probacion "proof, evidence" (14c., Modern French probation) and directly from Latin probationem (nominative probatio) "approval, assent; a proving, trial, inspection, examination," A term often used by LDS leaders to describe a period of testing, usually referring to mortality, ie, this mortal probation.
The Nehor Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 15 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: what do we do to obtain these blessings? It takes a heavy dose of revelation to get to that point so I don't think this board can help you much. 2
mfbukowski Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 15 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: 18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church— 19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant. (D&C 107:18-19) read these last week and ivd had them stuck in my head. Is the Lord talking about priesthood offices or priesthood orders? Does this right belong to all ordained or just those who hold keys? I'm repeatedly brought to section 121 as i ponder it. what do we do to obtain these blessings? One could just take verse 18 simply and directly as saying that the Melchizedek priesthood is the power of God by which worlds etc were created- and therefor of course all the keys of the church- prophethood etc come through the MP. I mean where else do we expect to find the keys of the church if not in the MP? So verse 19 also- the keys to the mysteries also come through the MP simply because where else would they come from? So far straightforward, imo But the you have to come up with the zinger question "what do we do to obtain these blessings?" and THAT is a whole different kettle of fish! The "right" belongs to all ordained BUT the attached condition is of course righteousness and overcoming the world through becoming extremely close to the Lord. A cheesy analogy is that just being an American gives you the "rights" of the constitution and the rights of the constitution include becoming a billionaire, but not quite everyone jumps that hurdle. It takes just a little work. So yes having the MP is a necessary condition to obtaining all these blessings but it is hardly a sufficient condition for obtaining them So if you want lessons from me on how to become a billionaire or receive these sublime blessings, you are asking the wrong guy. I suspect there's nobody hereabouts who could tell you much more about it, though some will certainly think they can tell you that.
mfbukowski Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 23 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It takes a heavy dose of revelation to get to that point so I don't think this board can help you much. How come you said that in 3/4 of a line and it took me a dozen lines? Wait- don't answer that- I don't think I would like the answer.
The Nehor Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 7 hours ago, mfbukowski said: How come you said that in 3/4 of a line and it took me a dozen lines? Wait- don't answer that- I don't think I would like the answer. Being lazy increases efficiency. 4
Abulafia Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 And where do women feature in all this?😥 1
JLHPROF Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Abulafia said: And where do women feature in all this?😥 Depends who you ask. Joseph Smith diary September 28, 1843 - Thursday, September 28th 1843 At 7 [o'clock in the] eve[ning] met at the Mansion's upper room front with W[illiam] L[aw] [and] W[illiam M[ark]. Beurach Ale [Joseph Smith] was by common consent and unanimous voice chosen President of the quorum and anointed and ord[ained] to the highest and holiest order of the priesthood (and companion).
Avatar4321 Posted December 30, 2016 Author Posted December 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Abulafia said: And where do women feature in all this?😥 with their husbands 2
JLHPROF Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: with their husbands I Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. This is as literal as it is symbolic. We cannot achieve our status as God's without both male and female. 1
waveslider Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 On 12/29/2016 at 5:32 AM, Avatar4321 said: what do we do to obtain these blessings? It isn't about obtaining these blessings for ourselves. That isn't the goal. What we should do, IMO, is try to keep our eye single to the glory of God. That is the goal. It won't matter what part we are to play within building God's kingdom, we each have our own unique part to play in it, and we will each gain whatever blessings are needed to do our part if we but want what God wants instead of what we want for ourselves. God has a plan and a purpose for each and everyone of us, individually, the test is that we either get on board with His plan, or we choose a different plan, which basically is a rejection of God's plan. Our worth isn't on which blessings or keys we receive, like if they are some form of merit badge or something, but upon how well we do in choosing to freely give our choice over to God and allow Him to guide us in His causes, and in what we do with what we actually receive. It is in how well we obey Him, being willing to be subject to anything our Father in Heaven sees to inflict upon us. If we are only given keys to be a janitor then there is no shame in that. We can do it to the best of our ability and become the best building rep there ever was. If we are to gain the keys to become the prophet of the world, then it is that in which we should do to the best of our abilities. Neither person is going to be denied the full benefits of the atonement and gain complete exaltation and eternal life, unless we are an unwise servant with whatever responsibility, keys and blessings we do receive. Just my two cents worth anyway.
Abulafia Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, JLHPROF said: I Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. This is as literal as it is symbolic. We cannot achieve our status as God's without both male and female. Do you want to take all of Paul's writings literally? Given that Paul was single and felt that people should remain single, then that's not how many early christian groups saw things. Indeed, some early christian communities had a big problem as communities developed along orthodox lines, with the widows. A lot of these women weren't infact widows, but had decided not to marry. So the need developed to put an age limit on who could be a widow. There are also passages where Jesus seems to declare singleness as an ideal. I know this grates with Mormon theology, but there it is. If you want links, I can provide, but most of it is there in the NT and early christian sources. Edited December 31, 2016 by Abulafia 1
rodheadlee Posted January 1, 2017 Posted January 1, 2017 20 hours ago, Abulafia said: Do you want to take all of Paul's writings literally? Given that Paul was single and felt that people should remain single, then that's not how many early christian groups saw things. Indeed, some early christian communities had a big problem as communities developed along orthodox lines, with the widows. A lot of these women weren't infact widows, but had decided not to marry. So the need developed to put an age limit on who could be a widow. There are also passages where Jesus seems to declare singleness as an ideal. I know this grates with Mormon theology, but there it is. If you want links, I can provide, but most of it is there in the NT and early christian sources. That's why we have further revelation on the subject in the D&C, to clarify it.
Abulafia Posted January 1, 2017 Posted January 1, 2017 It doesn't clarify. It fundamentally changes. You have to trust Joseph represents God on this issue. I don't. I mean that respectfully. Other issues, perhaps. 2
Abulafia Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 How does this tie in with the veil of the temple being rent? Surely Jesus, in developing early christian theology (amongst at least some communities), tore down the privatized access to the divine for supplication by his crucifixion. What Brigham does here is reprivatises something that Jesus has already symbolically opened up to all (both male and female equally)?
theplains Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 On 29/12/2016 at 5:54 PM, JLHPROF said: A term often used by LDS leaders to describe a period of testing, usually referring to mortality, ie, this mortal probation. How is this applicable to your context of the Holy Ghost going through probation? Thanks, Jim
JLHPROF Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, theplains said: How is this applicable to your context of the Holy Ghost going through probation? If meant in the traditional sense, Joseph is saying that at that time the Holy Ghost was experiencing his mortal probation - being born, living, dying. And that his life would take a course similar to the Saviors in some way. There is no official Church doctrine that I am aware of as to what he meant. But there have been some speculative ideas over the years. Important to remember that in Mormonism there are both the personage of the Holy Spirit AND the spirit of God. Edited January 2, 2017 by JLHPROF
theplains Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: If meant in the traditional sense, Joseph is saying that at that time the Holy Ghost was experiencing his mortal probation - being born, living, dying. Do you have a reference for Joseph teaching that about the Holy Ghost? Thanks, Jim
JLHPROF Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, theplains said: Do you have a reference for Joseph teaching that about the Holy Ghost? Thanks, Jim It's in the quote you referred to. Words of Joseph Smith pg 245: Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost 26 is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.https://archive.org/stream/TheWordsOfJosephSmith/The Words of Joseph Smith_djvu.txt
mfbukowski Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 On 12/30/2016 at 9:47 AM, JLHPROF said: Depends who you ask. Joseph Smith diary September 28, 1843 - Thursday, September 28th 1843 At 7 [o'clock in the] eve[ning] met at the Mansion's upper room front with W[illiam] L[aw] [and] W[illiam M[ark]. Beurach Ale [Joseph Smith] was by common consent and unanimous voice chosen President of the quorum and anointed and ord[ained] to the highest and holiest order of the priesthood (and companion). Anybody know the interpretation of "Beurach"? Same as "Baruch"?
JLHPROF Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: Anybody know the interpretation of "Beurach"? Same as "Baruch"? Sure it's a phonetic misspell. Not the most educated scribes sometimes in those days. Not to mention all the abbreviating and shorthand they used. Edited January 3, 2017 by JLHPROF 1
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