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Jack Chick has died


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3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Joseph of Egypt used a silver divination cup, something that today would probably be considered to be an occult practice.  Does that automatically mean he was a fraud?

You can easily tell if one is a fraud by teaching a different God than the one described in the Bible.

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4 hours ago, cdowis said:

JS "always" wore the talisman "for protection" but gives no proof.  As I kid, someone gave me a rabbit's foot, but had nothing to with witchcraft.  He may have carried it because of the person who gave it to him as a something "really cool", a curiosity.  Both the talisman and the knife are meaningless without showing what meaning they held for Joseph Smith.

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1 hour ago, snowflake said:

You can easily tell if one is a fraud by teaching a different God than the one described in the Bible.

Like the one Jack Chick taught? 

Edited by boblloyd91
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7 hours ago, snowflake said:

Chick provides LDS sources and other sources for his claims, Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, Michael Quinn, History of the Saints, The Holy Bible, Ezra Taft Benson.  Yes I agree, a very shocking book, but what is inaccurate about it?

I was referring to his conspiracy theories involving Catholicism (such as them being the founder of Islam etc.) I then mentioned Alberto Rivera, who claimed all kinds of crazy adventures he had being a former Jesuit, which later turned out to be bunk. It's obvious Jack Chick was either gullible or had so much hate that he was willing to believe the most outlandish things if it made people he hated look bad. Kind of like Evangelicals who believed Ed Decker when he claimed the higher ups in the church drank blood out of skulls and there was a replica of the Oval Office in the Washington D.C. temple.  

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12 hours ago, snowflake said:

Joseph was tried for glass looking....fact. Occult practice

FACT CHECK
Actually it was for being a disorderly person.  A person is innocent until proven guilty -- fact.  There is conflicting record whether he was convicted == fact.
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/1826Trial/facts.html

Joseph had a Jupiter talisman and multiple seer stones.....fact. Occult practice.

FACT CHECK
Review of Early Mormonism and the Magic World View 5
BYU Studies copyright 1987

In the case of the Jupiter coin, this same extrapolation error is compounded
with a very uncritical acceptance of the artifact in the first place.
If the coin were Joseph’s, that fact alone would tell us nothing about what it
meant to him. But in fact there is insufficient evidence to prove that the
artifact ever belonged to the Prophet.
The coin was completely unknown
until 1930 when an aging Charles Bidamon sold it to Wilford Wood. The
only evidence that it was Joseph’s is an affidavit of Bidamon, who stood to
gain financially by so representing it. Quinn uncritically accepts Bidamon’s
affidavit as solid proof that the coin was Joseph’s. Yet the coin was not mentioned
in the 1844 list of Joseph’s possessions returned to Emma. Quinn
negotiates this difficulty by suggesting the coin must have been worn
around Joseph’s neck under his shirt. But in so doing Quinn impeaches his
only witness for the coin’s authenticity, for Bidamon’s affidavit, the only
evidence linking the coin to Joseph, specifically and solemnly swears that
the coin was in Joseph’s pocket at Carthage (66). The real empirical evidence
here is just too weak to prove that the coin was really Joseph’s, let
alone to extrapolate a conclusion from mere possession of the artifact that
Joseph must have believed in and practiced magic. The recent Hofmann
affair should have taught us that an affidavit from the seller, especially a
1930 affidavit to third hand information contradicted by the 1844 evidence,
just isn’t enough “proof ” to hang your hat on.

https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/early-mormonism-and-magic-world-view-0

 

 

Edited by cdowis
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11 hours ago, snowflake said:

Joseph was tried for glass looking....fact. Occult practice

Not fact. I do believe he was charged, and probably went to a pre-trial fact finding hearing. The preacher who removed the record of the pre-trial forever tainted the record - that's not allowed. In fact I believe it shows how wicked some "Christians" are who would deceive like that.

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On 10/25/2016 at 8:57 AM, boblloyd91 said:

To those that have had any exposure to his "Chick Tracts" Jack Chick has passed away. Has anyone ever seen or read his little comics? They were pretty interesting..... 

As a missionary I had a fairly complete collection of his Chick Tracts.  Concerned people would give them to me on a regular basis. 

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15 hours ago, snowflake said:

Joseph was tried for glass looking....fact. Occult practice

Joseph had a Jupiter talisman and multiple seer stones.....fact. Occult practice.

You should check out Quinn's book Early Mormonism and the Magic worldview.

 

JS needs to be judged in his own time.  Not by our modern standards.  A Jupiter tailsman probably meant as much to him as my lucky rabbit's foot means to me.  

Edited by sunstoned
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5 hours ago, sunstoned said:

JS needs to be judged in his own time.  Not by our modern standards.  A Jupiter tailsman probably meant as much to him as my lucky rabbit's foot means to me.  

Read my post.  It is not confirmed that he had even possessed the talisman.

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17 hours ago, bluebell said:

I kind of feel like you're moving the goal posts.  Before, you seemed to be implying that no man could be a prophet of God and be doing His will if he ever did anything that could be described as an occult practice.  

When it's pointed out that occult practices were sometimes used by prophets and apostles in the Bible, suddenly, the issue isn't occult practices at all but rather 'teaching a different God'. If someone addresses the issue of a 'different God' where will you move the goal posts to next?

Good point,  Moses did some pretty bizarre things that could quite possibly be considered "magic" or "occult" by our standard however, Moses warns us in Deuteronomy chapter 18 against certain things that would be offensive to God.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

If what Moses was doing was offensive to God I'm sure he would have been corrected.

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Good point,  Moses did some pretty bizarre things that could quite possibly be considered "magic" or "occult" by our standard however, Moses warns us in Deuteronomy chapter 18 against certain things that would be offensive to God.

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.

14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

If what Moses was doing was offensive to God I'm sure he would have been corrected.

 

 

 

How do you know Moses wasn't corrected?  Maybe he was but we have no record of it?  or maybe God approves of the "occult" just as much as He approves of you saying prayers. 

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15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It was a comic that was pulled.

Enjoy. And by that I mean be horrified: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4530227.html

Wow....just wow. In real life there is ample documentation of people who adhere to this theology, and have been serial abusers. Because they say a few words they think they can be forgiven, but don't actually do things to make things right with the victims. The end was especially horrifying. All this garbage does is end up hurting innocent people. I wonder how many pedophiles that booklet validated? 

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On October 26, 2016 at 10:35 AM, snowflake said:

He certainly did not soften his tone at all over the years. I don't think he was full of hate, he was calling things the way he saw them.  Remember Joseph wasn't so soft on what he called "the church of the devil" either.

Here is a link to his book The Enchanter, definitely anti-Joseph Smith.

http://www.fmh-child.org/TheEnchanter/TheEnchanter_2.html

 

The "Church of the Devil" was a teaching of Joseph, it was a translation, and a revelation. 

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Nor was "the Church of the Devil" any specific church, but instead was formed by those who followed Satan's persuasion, which undoubtedly includes some of the LDS faith as well as being scattered among many other churches and organizations.

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