Teancum Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Tacenda said: I wish I had that kind of obedience. I'll probably go to hell. Not me. I am glad I don't.
Teancum Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Tacenda said: I wish I had that kind of obedience. I'll probably go to hell. Well I may qualify my last comment. If God tells me directly to my face to practice polygamy or this or that i would likely do it. When someone tells me that God is telling them that I should do this or that I better be sure that God is really talking to them. In this case I use rational and critical thought as well as to explore the trust worthiness of those making the fantastic claims. Sadly most fall short of such trust IMO. 3
JLHPROF Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: You know, I wonder if women aren't really lauded much because of polygamy because they were kept hidden during certain times in the history of the church. Quite the opposite. You only have to read the stories of polygamous Utah to know how revered so many of these women were. The list is long and greatly esteemed. Honestly, I think women in the early Utah Church were more respected and esteemed than today. At least based on my readings.
JLHPROF Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Calm said: Do you believe it is required for exaltation? If so, why? If not, why not? (I am curious if you apply the same standard to this that you apply to the concept of eternal polygamy) Well, on this topic there actually ARE conflicting teachings from early prophets and modern prophets. And given that there is a conflict I don't feel like having any set in stone position is wise. I can even provide statements from Brigham Young that say it is a requirement and that it isn't. But I will say that one requirement for exaltation is a 100% obedience to our head, in this case God. No matter what he commands or requires. The eternal nature of polygamy as a law has only statements in favor. Polygamy for exaltation is a much more contradictory subject. 1
Tacenda Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 1 minute ago, JLHPROF said: Well, on this topic there actually ARE conflicting teachings from early prophets and modern prophets. And given that there is a conflict I don't feel like having any set in stone position is wise. I can even provide statements from Brigham Young that say it is a requirement and that it isn't. But I will say that one requirement for exaltation is a 100% obedience to our head, in this case God. No matter what he commands or requires. The eternal nature of polygamy as a law has only statements in favor. Polygamy for exaltation is a much more contradictory subject. That isn't coming from the church as in church manuals and the like, right?
bluebell Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: But I will say that one requirement for exaltation is a 100% obedience to our head, in this case God. No matter what he commands or requires. If that was the requirement for exaltation, there would be no need for a Savior. 1
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, bluebell said: If that was the requirement for exaltation, there would be no need for a Savior. No, the Savior is about salvation - redemption from the dead and entrance into God's kingdom. Exaltation is an issue of laws lived. 1
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Tacenda said: That isn't coming from the church as in church manuals and the like, right? Some quotes against requirement for exaltation are current. Some are not. Quotes for requirement for exaltation are not in the manuals etc, correct. Edited July 25, 2016 by JLHPROF
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 The common conception is that polygamy ain't coming back. It was just a practice for a certain period and is over.
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: The common conception is that polygamy ain't coming back. It was just a practice for a certain period and is over. That depends who you ask. (I feel like this thread is running in circles...) But the logic of this "common conception" doesn't really work. 1
Jeanne Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: You know, I wonder if women aren't really lauded much because of polygamy because they were kept hidden during certain times in the history of the church. We don't know any of the prophets wives really, except for the more recent wives that weren't polygamist. Or it's true, the women aren't equal to the men in our church and we don't get much air time, or read and lesson time such as the Presidents of the Church do. For instance how they aren't mentioned much in the manuals, especially if polygamists. I'm sure there are a couple of books about some of these women, I remember a book of prophets' mothers, but they are talking about their sons. I don't mean this to turn into a feminist post, but this is really sticking out to me. Thinking polygamy caused some to go into the shadows. According to BY...we are cattle! I believe that in a sense we are to "keep sweet" and sh''sh''sh'. 2
Sky Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 No, polygamy is not required for exaltation. At least not for any of us in the here and now. That I feel 100% confident in saying. Elder Marcus B. Nash, of the Seventy, made that clear as recently as December of 2015. Quote On behalf of the First Presidency and in response to the question “Is plural or celestial marriage essential to a fulness of glory in the world to come?” President Charles W. Penrose (1832–1925) wrote: “Celestial marriage is essential to a fulness of glory in the world to come, as explained in the revelation concerning it; but it is not stated that plural marriage is thus essential.”41 In 1933 the First Presidency declared: “Celestial marriage—that is, marriage for time and eternity—and polygamous or plural marriage are not synonymous terms. Monogamous marriages for time and eternity, solemnized in our temples in accordance with the word of the Lord and the laws of the Church, are Celestial marriages.”42 Consistent with these statements, Elder Bruce R. McConkie (1915–85) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote: “Plural marriage is not essential to salvation or exaltation. Nephi and his people were denied the power to have more than one wife and yet they could gain every blessing in eternity that the Lord ever offered to any people. In our day, the Lord summarized by revelation the whole doctrine of exaltation and predicated it upon the marriage of one man to one woman. (D&C 132:1–28.) Thereafter he added the principles relative to plurality of wives with the express stipulation that any such marriages would be valid only if authorized by the President of the Church. (D&C 132:7, 29–66.)”43 Today, as directed by the Lord through His prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints no longer practices plural marriage, and individuals who do practice it are not allowed to join the Church or remain members of it. The Church affirms that monogamy is God’s standard for marriage except when He authorizes or commands otherwise through His prophet. The Church does not teach that participation in plural marriage is necessary for exaltation. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/12/the-new-and-everlasting-covenant?lang=eng So until God personally tells me (or an angel with a flaming sward) that I have to practice polygamy if I want to make it to the Celestial Kingdom, then I will reconsider my position. But until then, I'm dismissing everybody else that even comes close to making such a suggestion. I'll keep on focusing on things like repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end... And for all the talk about Russell M. Nelson and Dallin H. Oaks remarrying and being sealed to a second wife, remember Thomas S. Monson is still a widower. Apparently he has chosen to not remarry. Same for Gordon B. Hinckley and Richard G. Scott after their wives died. They chose to remain single for the rest of their lives and meet their wives on the other side of the veil! How romantic and loyal of them! 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: That depends who you ask. (I feel like this thread is running in circles...) But the logic of this "common conception" doesn't really work. What hints have there ever been that it's ever coming back and what is your source? Your own personal feelings won't be a good enough reason. What prophets and apostles have said polygamy is coming back and has a future?
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: What hints have there ever been that it's ever coming back and what is your source? Your own personal feelings won't be a good enough reason. What prophets and apostles have said polygamy is coming back and has a future? Read this thread. We've been over this from both sides and opinions. No point in repeating everything again.
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Sky said: So until God personally tells me (or an angel with a flaming sward) that I have to practice polygamy if I want to make it to the Celestial Kingdom, then I will reconsider my position. But until then, I'm dismissing everybody else that even comes close to making such a suggestion. I'll keep on focusing on things like repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end... Nobody has ever said you have to practice polygamy to make it to the Celestial Kingdom. But that's not the definition of exaltation. You don't even need to be married to make the CK. Edited July 25, 2016 by JLHPROF
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Read this thread. We've been over this from both sides and opinions. No point in repeating everything again. I saw no doctrinal answer about a future. All I saw was opinions in this thread.
bluebell Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: No, the Savior is about salvation - redemption from the dead and entrance into God's kingdom. Exaltation is an issue of laws lived. Exaltation still isn't possible without the Savior though. He is the only reason that we even have a chance to be exalted. 1
Rain Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: What hints have there ever been that it's ever coming back and what is your source? Your own personal feelings won't be a good enough reason. What prophets and apostles have said polygamy is coming back and has a future? You used the term "common conception". It was a common conception among my son's friends that our school district sprung the shortness of the Chriatmas on them at the last minute and that they would have more days of school. This was not the conception that administration had since they used the calendar to plan things. The youth's common conception was wrong as the calendar had been on the district website for more than 2 years and our district had the same amount of school days as the other districts - we just started later in the fall. Your experience which feeds into your conception is different than mine. I found that in some areas the idea was a common conception and not so in others. It has nothing to do with what prophets actually said or didn't say. Common conception only shows what a group of people understand the matter to be regardless of whether their conception is right or wrong. 1
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 1 minute ago, bluebell said: Exaltation still isn't possible without the Savior though. He is the only reason that we even have a chance to be exalted. True. You can't gain entrance to High School without the Savior. But the grades you get in High School are dependent on which assignments you complete and how well.
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) JLH, my patriarchal blessing warns me against what I take in through word that I don't let it corrupt my mind or it will end up ruining my life. I worry what you write on these boards about supporting polygamy is just what my blessing is warning about, because I never even thought about my life being affected by polygamy in my whole life up until I read posts by you on this board. I became obsessed with polygamy for about a year recently and it's all because of what I read from you on this board. I honestly think you might be leading people astray and corrupting minds and I mean that with hopes you don't corrupt other people's minds too. It's not a coincidence that my mind and life was more peaceful until I came across your posts on eternal polygamy a couple years ago and they've influenced me since and wrought my mind with confusion and pain. I believe your posts are honestly what my patriarchal blessing is warning me about avoiding. Also, I'll add you've stated you believe Joseph Smith is the Holy Ghost, and I can't fully remember for sure but I think you've supported the Adam-God theory. All are things that can mess with someone's mind and could be very false doctrine. Edited July 25, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie
bluebell Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: True. You can't gain entrance to High School without the Savior. But the grades you get in High School are dependent on which assignments you complete and how well. I agree. But He is our tutor through out our high school career as well. He doesn't just shove us thru the doors and wish us luck. He really is involved in every step of our exaltation. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, Rain said: You used the term "common conception". It was a common conception among my son's friends that our school district sprung the shortness of the Chriatmas on them at the last minute and that they would have more days of school. This was not the conception that administration had since they used the calendar to plan things. The youth's common conception was wrong as the calendar had been on the district website for more than 2 years and our district had the same amount of school days as the other districts - we just started later in the fall. Your experience which feeds into your conception is different than mine. I found that in some areas the idea was a common conception and not so in others. It has nothing to do with what prophets actually said or didn't say. Common conception only shows what a group of people understand the matter to be regardless of whether their conception is right or wrong. Well what proof is there that either side of this polygamy argument is right or wrong?
Rain Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 59 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: JLH, my patriarchal blessing warns me against what I take in through word that I don't let it corrupt my mind or it will end up ruining my life. I worry what you write on these boards about supporting polygamy is just what my blessing is warning about, because I never even thought about my life being affected by polygamy in my whole life up until I read posts by you on this board. I became obsessed with polygamy for about a year recently and it's all because of what I read from you on this board. I honestly think you might be leading people astray and corrupting minds and I mean that with hopes you don't corrupt other people's minds too. It's not a coincidence that my mind and life was more peaceful until I came across your posts on eternal polygamy a couple years ago and they've influenced me since and wrought my mind with confusion and pain. I believe your posts are honestly what my patriarchal blessing is warning me about avoiding. Also, I'll add you've stated you believe Joseph Smith is the Holy Ghost, and I can't fully remember for sure but I think you've supported the Adam-God theory. All are things that can mess with someone's mind and could be very false doctrine. What you read is your responsibility. If you feel it is against the advice of your blessing then you need to be the one to choose not to read his posts or even the board in general. Years ago I listened to a talk (The Dog Ate My Scriptures) about taking responsibility for my own actions. To stop making excuses for my actions. I've found, that just as the talk said, that I have more power in my choices and my ability to do things when I take responsibility. It may be a thing for others try as well. 3
Rain Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well what proof is there that either side of this polygamy argument is right or wrong? That is an entirely different thing and I do not have the knowledge to answer the question and as has been stated it is the question that has been discussed for a number of pages now. I was only explaining what "common conception" means and how it doesn't apply to what you are really asking. Can I share my thoughts of polygamy with you withought anything to back it up? I recognize that this won't help some people, but for me, personally, it was an answer to prayers. I'm grateful for the person who shared it with me so I share it with others. While it won't be the answer many need maybe it will be what someone needs. Years ago I also struggled with polygamy. I spent time praying and thinking over it as well. It really bothered me. Then I read (paraphrased) "since we are not to be living polygamy now the Spirit isn't going to be testifying about it now". Now that isn't exactly true, but when I read it I had great peace of mind that whether it was a true principle or not I did not need to worry about it, but the Lord would take care of it. So maybe ask the Lord if it is the question you need to be asking now. Ask the Lord, "what lack I?" or in other words, "what gospel topic should I be studying now?" 1
Calm Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 5 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I'm a vegetarian and animal rights supporter and donator to animal causes. Good for you.
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