The Nehor Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 The early manuscripts we have of the Book of Mormon are closer to the original then those of the Bible in terms of number of copies so I guess the Book of Mormon is more likely to be correct then the Bible. Glad we sorted that out. 1
Atheist Mormon Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, mnn727 said: There is a reason its called "Faith" I submit that even Atheism requires Faith as the facts are just not there either. Atheism has many glaring holes in it also. As far as Mormonism goes, the absolute worst thing that can be said about it is, that I am a far better man here and now for following it that I was prior to joining (I was an adult convert). That's not a bad condemnation in my view. Not even close, atheism requires no faith, it already states, the absence of god or belief. Atheism is not a belief system, it is a concept which stands alone...To say opposite is a mockery of the faith I know.... 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Not even close, atheism requires no faith. All theorems rest upon postulates. 1
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: All theorems rest upon postulates. Let's put in a simpler terminology; atheists do not pray, worship, ideologize any entity.
Storm Rider Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Atheist Mormon said: Let's put in a simpler terminology; atheists do not pray, worship, ideologize any entity. Yet, atheists rely on something they think, they believe, is more true than the belief in some imaginary old man in the sky. Yes or no? 1
Gervin Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, stemelbow said: I'd agree if you want to suggest there is more evidence that the Bible was written anciently. There's no way to dispute that. Evidence for the fact that the Bible was written anciently doesn't give credence to any claims contained therein. So is it an important fact? I guess it allows us to test (scientifically, perhaps) the veracity of the setting of the Bible. Correct? Edited June 10, 2016 by Gervin
Avatar4321 Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 10 hours ago, snowflake said: I disagree. There is plenty of "fact" surrounding the old and new testaments. We have literally thousands of new testament manuscripts supporting the accuracy of the Bible. Almost all biblical scholars agree that most of the New Testament documents were written before the close of the close of the first century (or before the destruction of Jerusalem for that matter). So if the writings of the apostles and witnesses were erroneous they could have been challenged at that time. Compare the evidence to any other ancient book. Also, there are hundreds of places we can identify from the Bible along with other archeological evidences. One does not have to look far to see that there is plenty of evidence outside of "faith" that support the book. The gospels are on extremely firm ground! Now the book of Mormon on the other hand cannot be verified with manuscripts, or archeology. How does an illiterate society challenge texts at the time? Especially since the manuscript weren't wide spread for centuries and society illiterate or over a millennium?
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: Yet, atheists rely on something they think, they believe, is more true than the belief in some imaginary old man in the sky. Yes or no? Atheist rely on nothing when belief is mentioned. They already know it is a bottomless pit / void. Edited to add; Would you entertain any faith in superbowl played last year? You know the result allready....Atheists know already; there's no god/ Edited June 10, 2016 by Atheist Mormon add a paragreph
bluebell Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Atheist rely on nothing when belief is mentioned. They already know it is a bottomless pit / void. How do they know? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 11 hours ago, snowflake said: I disagree. There is plenty of "fact" surrounding the old and new testaments. We have literally thousands of new testament manuscripts supporting the accuracy of the Bible. Almost all biblical scholars agree that most of the New Testament documents were written before the close of the close of the first century (or before the destruction of Jerusalem for that matter). So if the writings of the apostles and witnesses were erroneous they could have been challenged at that time. Compare the evidence to any other ancient book. Also, there are hundreds of places we can identify from the Bible along with other archeological evidences. One does not have to look far to see that there is plenty of evidence outside of "faith" that support the book. The gospels are on extremely firm ground! Now the book of Mormon on the other hand cannot be verified with manuscripts, or archeology. You are comparing apples to oranges here, and basing it largely on false information. Most biblical scholars think that the Pauline epistles were written in Greek beginning only a few years after the death of Jesus. The Gospels and other NT writings they place much later in time and consider them to represent the variant Church traditions as they came to be many decades after the death of Jesus -- and primarily from outside of Palestine. As with any collection of books from ancient times, there are many manuscripts because many copies were made by scribes. All ancient manuscript stories have geographical references to the surroundings familiar from Egypt, Greece, Rome, Syria, etc. That is quite natural for areas of the world which have archeological and historical continuity -- which is missing for Mesoamerica. However, no biblical manuscript can verify the miracles of the OT and NT. No manuscript of the Iliad or Odyssey can verify that Zeus, Athena, Poseidon, or Polyphemus actually existed in real life. Just so, the existence of Beowulf in manuscript does not verify that either he or Grendel actually existed. Any literature, including the Bible and Book of Mormon is subject to examination based on its contents, the more detailed the better. Archeology and literary analysis have so far provided a preponderance of evidence for the Book of Mormon. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Atheist rely on nothing when belief is mentioned. They already know it is a bottomless pit / void. Edited to add; Would you entertain any faith in superbowl played last year? You know the result allready....Atheists know already; there's no god/ Sounds like an emotional commitment to me, rather than any sort of knowledge. How does one prove the existence or non-existence of God (or gods)? What is your epistemic correlate? 3
The Nehor Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said: All theorems rest upon postulates. Is a hypothesis faith?
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluebell said: How do they know? Bluebell, This is the easiest question I can answer.....not only that ever since that I realized that God did not exists I always parlayed my life against the existence of god. So far so good but I cannot play any other bet this safe, I don't take anything else for granted, except that I know God doesn't exist... I can put everything on the line against god's existence.....all I have is my experience..... It speaks for volumes.... I feel bad for people who cannot discover this simples fact of life......This test requires no education, no experience of any sorts.....all you have to do is put it on the line.....test it..... Edited June 10, 2016 by Atheist Mormon typo
bluebell Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Bluebell, This is the easiest question I can answer.....not only that ever since that I realized that God did not exists I always parlayed my life against the existence of god. So far so good but I cannot play any other bet this safe, I don't take anything else for granted, except that I know God doesn't exist... I can put everything on the line against god's existence.....all I have is my experience..... It speaks for volumes.... I feel bad for people who cannot discover this simples fact of life......This test requires no education, no experience of any sorts.....all you have to do is put it on the line.....test it..... I have tested it. Quite extensively. Those tests are the reason I know He does exist. While most of my beliefs are just that, things I believe are true. The existence of God is knowledge, specifically because of the experiences I have had with Him. What test did you do to convince you of the opposite? 4
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Sounds like an emotional commitment to me, rather than any sort of knowledge. How does one prove the existence or non-existence of God (or gods)? What is your epistemic correlate? Robert, you are asking "What is your epistemic correlate?" ......... If you are nineteen years old I can understand your question, but if you are over couple years of sixty you should know that there's no God......(I do not mean any disrespect BTW).......
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) And Nobody said it would be an easy DISCOVERY. But it is a discovery everybody must encounter (hopefully sooner in their life)....Atheism is not a game of winning or losing. It is a discovery of a profound reality. (Not FAITH for sure) Edited June 10, 2016 by Atheist Mormon
JLHPROF Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: And Nobody said it would be an easy DISCOVERY. But it is a discovery everybody must encounter (hopefully sooner in their life)....Atheism is not a game of winning or losing. It is a discovery of a profound reality. I look forward to greeting you on the other side of the veil. I'll be the one holding the "told you so" sign. You cannot know something doesn't exist. To know that you would have to know about everything everywhere. But you can know if something does exist, even without conclusive proof. Edited June 10, 2016 by JLHPROF 1
Robert F. Smith Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Robert, you are asking "What is your epistemic correlate?" ......... If you are nineteen years old I can understand your question, but if you are over couple years of sixty you should know that there's no God......(I do not mean any disrespect BTW)....... I am 75 and know a thing or two about epistemology (the ways of knowing), and I believe that there is a God. If you have rational reasons for believing that there is no God (or gods), I'd love to hear them. Same if your reasons are only emotional or poetic. A testimony is personal, however you come by it. Surely your atheistic testimony comes from somewhere, or has some basis. 2
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: I am 75 and know a thing or two about epistemology (the ways of knowing), and I believe that there is a God. If you have rational reasons for believing that there is no God (or gods), I'd love to hear them. Same if your reasons are only emotional or poetic. A testimony is personal, however you come by it. Surely your atheistic testimony comes from somewhere, or has some basis. Robert, Mine is not a testimony.....It is a knowledge ...No emotional reasons...based on total reality If you want to prove otherwise I'm willing to up to ante.......
Robert F. Smith Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Atheist Mormon said: Robert, Mine is not a testimony.....It is a knowledge ...No emotional reasons...based on total reality If you want to prove otherwise I'm willing to up to ante....... So, we are narrowing it down, even if it is like pulling teeth: "If you have rational reasons for believing that there is no God (or gods), I'd love to hear them."
bluebell Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Robert, Mine is not a testimony.....It is a knowledge ...No emotional reasons...based on total reality If you want to prove otherwise I'm willing to up to ante....... You still haven't said how you know. wjat test did you do?
JLHPROF Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Mine is not a testimony.....It is a knowledge ...No emotional reasons...based on total reality Yeah, like the flat earth people.
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Yeah, like the flat earth people. Wrong..... Except this one has the proof in every was possible....that God never existed.....
Atheist Mormon Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, bluebell said: You still haven't said how you know. wjat test did you do? Did you do any tests that unicorns existed & flew? How can you do any tests against fantasy?
Freedom Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 34 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said: Robert, Mine is not a testimony.....It is a knowledge ...No emotional reasons...based on total reality If you want to prove otherwise I'm willing to up to ante....... You are the master of the false premise. so tell us, what is this knowledge. Where is your scientific evidence that there is no god. You keep making claims but you have no substance.
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