Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Tacenda said: http://kutv.com/news/local/byu-student-says-honor-code-creates-fear-shame-in-victims-of-rape This was on the news tonight earlier, but took awhile to be put up. While watching I was pretty aghast that here we are discussing this very thing. Why are you aghast that we are discussing this? Would you rather no one talked about it?
Calm Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, mtomm said: Ugh, don't as there is just no way to read all that is posted! (Unless you really want to.) My comment pretty much sums it up, and in no way a scolding for you not having read. thank you, I have to take on an insurance agency for my mom and that is enough confusion for tommorrow
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 38 minutes ago, Danzo said: Wow, thanks for pointing that out. Aghast was the wrong word, just looked up the definition, not what I meant to say. Just surprised I guess.
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Danzo said: Higher does not mean highest. It is stated oddly. But, how could it not be the highest if Utah has a "higher rate" that the rest of the nation? Quote Rape is the only violent crime in Utah that occurs at a higher rate than the rest of the nation And, the title of the other article linked to states: Quote Utah ranks highest in sexual violence incidents http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/local/2015/04/17/utah-ranks-highest-sexual-violence-incidents/25967577/
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, ALarson said: It is stated oddly. But, how could it not be the highest if Utah has a "higher rate" that the rest of the nation? And, the title of the other article linked to states: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/local/2015/04/17/utah-ranks-highest-sexual-violence-incidents/25967577/ I read the article. It has no references, no Utah specific numbers or statistics. But it's on the Internet so it must be true.
Gray Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) According to this, Utah does not have a particularly high rate of reported rape (#35 out of 50, 50 being the worst): http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/03/opinion/sutter-alaska-rape-list/ It's not great or anything. But it's not Alaska or South Dakota Edited April 12, 2016 by Gray
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, ALarson said: It is stated oddly. But, how could it not be the highest if Utah has a "higher rate" that the rest of the nation? And, the title of the other article linked to states: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/local/2015/04/17/utah-ranks-highest-sexual-violence-incidents/25967577/ Which is very concerning. I guess since Utah is slow to prosecute that may contribute. There is a fund that a group has donated to get all rape kits tested in 20 states. Law enforcement need to get their act together and start testing the over 1,800 rape kits collected. Who knows how many rapes could have been prevented if this had been done sooner. To me, this suggests that Law Enforcement doesn't rank these women very high. http://kutv.com/news/local/lawmakers-call-for-more-testing-of-rape-kits
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 10 minutes ago, Danzo said: I read the article. It has no references, no Utah specific numbers or statistics. But it's on the Internet so it must be true. You asked for links stating it was the "highest", they were provided. If you want to continue quibbling, fine. It seems that it depends upon which statistics are used and which article you read, but it does in fact state in the links we are discussing that "Utah is the highest in sexual violence incidents".
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, Gray said: According to this, Utah does not have a particularly high rate of reported rape (#35 out of 50, 50 being the worst): http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/03/opinion/sutter-alaska-rape-list/ 'Reported' should be the operative word here. So many in Utah don't report. I can see why, nothing will happen and the survivor/victim will just put shame on herself by some idiots that might think she's tainted now. Why report if lab kits sit for years and rapists rarely get convicted in Utah.
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, ALarson said: You asked for links stating it was the "highest", they were provided. If you want to continue quibbling, fine. It seems that it depends upon which statistics are used and which article you read, but it does in fact state in the links we are discussing that "Utah is the highest in sexual violence incidents". Actually I was asking for a credible reference I am sorry if I did not make that clear.
Sleeper Cell Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 12 hours ago, Tacenda said: Sexual assault is one of the most underreported crimes, with 60% still being left unreported (U.S. Department of Justice National Crime Victimization Study, 2005). ... over 95% of completed or attempted rapes of college students go unreported. Are college students really much less likely to report rape and attempted rape than members of the general public? If this is true, do you have any idea why college students -- 99% of whom are not subject to (or inhibited by) the BYU honor code -- would be far less willing to report these crimes than the general public? 1
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tacenda said: 'Reported' should be the operative word here. So many in Utah don't report. I can see why, nothing will happen and the survivor/victim will just put shame on herself by some idiots that might think she's tainted now. Why report if lab kits sit for years and rapists rarely get convicted in Utah. If they are not reported, how do we know they happened? It seems like speculation to me. 2
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Danzo said: If they are not reported, how do we know they happened? It seems like speculation to me. Yeah I'd like to get to the bottom of this also.
Gray Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, Tacenda said: 'Reported' should be the operative word here. So many in Utah don't report. I can see why, nothing will happen and the survivor/victim will just put shame on herself by some idiots that might think she's tainted now. Why report if lab kits sit for years and rapists rarely get convicted in Utah. That's certainly possible.
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Danzo said: If they are not reported, how do we know they happened? It seems like speculation to me. Apparently phone surveys. https://www.ksl.com/?sid=4176710 http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700063681/Rape-crisis-team-says-crimes-under-reported-in-Utah.html?pg=all Edited April 12, 2016 by Tacenda 2
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Danzo said: Actually I was asking for a credible reference I am sorry if I did not make that clear. https://raperecoverycenter.org/statistics/ Quote Although Utah has a low rate of violent crime as a whole, for the past 10 years our state has had a rape rate (reported rapes per 100,000 females) that is higher than the national average. [3] Salt Lake County has one of the highest average rape rates in the state at 93 per 100,000 females compared to 70 per 100,000 in Utah. [3] In 2009, 8% of female high school students and 6% of male students in Utah reported that they were physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to. [3] The 2006 Utah Behavior Risk Factor Surveillance System found that one in eight, or 12% of women and one in fifty, or 2% of men reported that they had experienced rape or attempted rape in their lifetime. [3] [3] http://ibis.health.utah.gov/indicator/complete_profile/Rape.html Whether right now it is the "highest" as stated previously in some sources or not, it should be a huge concern from the statistics reported, IMO. . Edited April 12, 2016 by ALarson
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 44 minutes ago, ALarson said: https://raperecoverycenter.org/statistics/ Whether right now it is the "highest" as stated previously in some sources or not, it should be a huge concern from the statistics reported, IMO. . I am not trying to say their isn't a problem, there obviously is. I am a numbers guy and make my living in a profession where accurate numbers matter (even to the point of litigating the numbers), And I get annoyed sometimes when people throw around unsubstantiated statements like "Highest in the Nation" or "Highest number of rapes in the nation" without any evidence. After all, 87.45% of all statistics on the internet are made up on the spot. 2
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Danzo said: I am not trying to say their isn't a problem, there obviously is. I am a numbers guy and make my living in a profession where accurate numbers matter (even to the point of litigating the numbers), And I get annoyed sometimes when people throw around unsubstantiated statements like "Highest in the Nation" or "Highest number of rapes in the nation" without any evidence. No one was making up numbers to throw around. There were sources (and reliable ones). I would like to know what the current stats are though and which ones were used by CNN (that are more recent than others here). But either way, the number of rapes and sexual assaults are too high (whether Utah is the highest or not). Edited April 12, 2016 by ALarson
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ALarson said: No one was making up numbers to throw around. There were sources (and reliable ones). I would like to know what the current stats are though and which ones were used by CNN (that are more recent than others here). But either way, the number of rapes and sexual assaults are too high (whether Utah is the highest or not). I saw no reliable source for the statement "Utah has the highest number of rapes in the country", Did you? Edited April 12, 2016 by Danzo
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Danzo said: I saw no reliable source for the statement "Utah has the highest number of rapes in the country", Did you? Yes. But if you want to quibble over the words "higher" and "highest" (both were used in the sources given), knock yourself out and carry on..... 1 hour ago, ALarson said: https://raperecoverycenter.org/statistics/ Quote Although Utah has a low rate of violent crime as a whole, for the past 10 years our state has had a rape rate (reported rapes per 100,000 females) that is higher than the national average. [3] Salt Lake County has one of the highest average rape rates in the state at 93 per 100,000 females compared to 70 per 100,000 in Utah. [3] In 2009, 8% of female high school students and 6% of male students in Utah reported that they were physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to. [3] The 2006 Utah Behavior Risk Factor Surveillance System found that one in eight, or 12% of women and one in fifty, or 2% of men reported that they had experienced rape or attempted rape in their lifetime. [3] [3] http://ibis.health.utah.gov/indicator/complete_profile/Rape.html
bsjkki Posted April 12, 2016 Author Posted April 12, 2016 This article from The Daily Universe includes quotes from BYU therapists about how the Honor Code interferes with rape reporting and that it is a problem. There is a firewall between BYU's counseling services and the Honor Code Office. http://universe.byu.edu/2016/03/08/technicalities-and-under-reporting-obscure-byu-campus-crime-reporting1/ Here is the relevant quotes. Under-reporting is also an issue, especially with sex crimes. “We know things are happening on campus, but (students) are not coming forth,” said University Police Sgt. Elle Martin, who is responsible for crime prevention efforts at BYU. “It’s heartbreaking, and I want that to change so bad.” Lauren Barnes, a BYU assistant clinical professor and marriage and family therapist, said under-reporting is evident in the annual safety report. She said other therapists have helped students report forcible sex offenses, but some students don’t feel comfortable reporting the crime to higher authority. “They’re usually pretty hesitant because they think they’ll get in trouble with the Honor Code Office,” Barnes said. Barnes referred to BYU’s culture as an “interesting phenomenon,” which might relate directly to how people treat sex offenses on campus. “I don’t know if it’s actually safer compared to other schools, but I think BYU’s culture might make it more difficult for people to be honest,” Barnes said. “I’ve even seen people claim rape when it was a consensual act, because they’re scared they might get kicked out of school.” 1
Danzo Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, ALarson said: Yes. But if you want to quibble over the words "higher" and "highest" (both were used in the sources given), knock yourself out and carry on..... Then we are agreed that Utah does not have the "highest number of rapes in the country". To show how absurd the statement is, consider http://site.utah.gov/dps-criminal/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2015/01/2003-year-end1.pdf which shows 843 rapes in 2003, compared with 9918 in California for the same year. http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/candd/cd06/tabs/2006Table01.pdf?
Tacenda Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, bsjkki said: This article from The Daily Universe includes quotes from BYU therapists about how the Honor Code interferes with rape reporting and that it is a problem. There is a firewall between BYU's counseling services and the Honor Code Office. http://universe.byu.edu/2016/03/08/technicalities-and-under-reporting-obscure-byu-campus-crime-reporting1/ Here is the relevant quotes. Under-reporting is also an issue, especially with sex crimes. “We know things are happening on campus, but (students) are not coming forth,” said University Police Sgt. Elle Martin, who is responsible for crime prevention efforts at BYU. “It’s heartbreaking, and I want that to change so bad.” Lauren Barnes, a BYU assistant clinical professor and marriage and family therapist, said under-reporting is evident in the annual safety report. She said other therapists have helped students report forcible sex offenses, but some students don’t feel comfortable reporting the crime to higher authority. “They’re usually pretty hesitant because they think they’ll get in trouble with the Honor Code Office,” Barnes said. Barnes referred to BYU’s culture as an “interesting phenomenon,” which might relate directly to how people treat sex offenses on campus. “I don’t know if it’s actually safer compared to other schools, but I think BYU’s culture might make it more difficult for people to be honest,” Barnes said. “I’ve even seen people claim rape when it was a consensual act, because they’re scared they might get kicked out of school.” This is pretty damning information. Maybe BYU will finally take action, now that they are forced to, IMO.
ALarson Posted April 12, 2016 Posted April 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Danzo said: Then we are agreed that Utah does not have the "highest number of rapes in the country". No, good grief!! LOL According to some reliable sources yes, and according to CNN, no, Utah is no longer the highest. I would really like to see the current stats though and I hope that Utah no longer has the highest rate of violent sexual assaults. (And let's move on...I'm done with this part of the discussion )
Recommended Posts