Forget Joseph Smith, what about Lorenzo Snow's polygamy?

[VideoGameJunkie]

The funny thing is my family tree goes back to Joseph Smith so I may have one awkward family reunion with him in heaven if I don't agree with him 100 percent.

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

The funny thing is my family tree goes back to Joseph Smith so I may have one awkward family reunion with him in heaven if I don't agree with him 100 percent.

Maybe that explains why you have a hard time with his polygamy. 

His family tried to pretend he didn't live polygamy for decades.

[VideoGameJunkie]

14 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe that explains why you have a hard time with his polygamy. 

His family tried to pretend he didn't live polygamy for decades.

This could be true. I guess I should feel lucky I'm related to Joseph Smith though.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/16/2015 at 11:33 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Who is Brian Hales?

I rest my case.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/16/2015 at 5:49 PM, Walden said:

......................................................................  

Either way, the thought of men nearing 60-years old taking multiple teen brides is sickening.

It sure is, by presentist standards . . .

[TheSkepticChristian]

7 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

they might be damned if they disagree.

CFR

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

How "voluntary" is it when the spiritual authority over you says "If you don't, you will be damned." ?

As voluntary as anything in this life. The Savior uses similar language. If by voluntary you mean "guaranteed free of any mortal or eternal consequences" then nothing is voluntary. If you stick with the classical definition of "do you have a choice?" then almost everything is voluntary.

[Stargazer]

On 12/15/2015 at 0:51 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Imagine we practiced polygamy today and imagine at your current age marrying 16 year olds and sleeping with them and having children with them. Would you feel a bit dirty, or would you feel justified knowing it's ok from the Lord? And notice as Snow's age kept going up the age of his wives kept being minors.

How old was Father Abraham when his wife gave him her handmaid to have children with?  

My stepmother was 14 when she was first married.  To a 20-year old man -- granted not some old geezer -- but she was freaking 14 dude!

Is it the age disparity you're worried about?   Or the youth of the woman?  My late wife married me knowing that I was 11 years younger than she was.  One of my daughter-in-law's uncles is married to a woman 15 years older than he is.  I unwisely signed up with eHarmony, now that I am a bachelor again, and have now had to fend off two women 20+ years younger than me, who apparently want to date me!  There's a sister in my ward who is 10 years older than I am who is giving off vibes of wanting to me to ask her out on a date!  Quite frankly I am flattered, and not at all grossed out by this attention.  Before she died, my wife told me she wanted me to be careful about who I married after she passed away -- because she'd have to put up eventually with her, too, after all.  I'm not allowed to marry the first frilly thing that comes calling, apparently.  She didn't say it in so many words, but I was under the impression that she didn't want me to marry anyone prettier than she was.  This won't be hard to accommodate, fortunately, because she was beautiful.

[Stargazer]

13 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

How can you prove he never said it? You seem so 100 percent sure it's a made up quote so how can we believe anything from the past that was claimed to be said is true unless we were present to hear them say it with our own ears. Needing that kind of proof opens the doors to doubting a lot of historical quotes.

You've asked that we prove that Elder Kimball never compared women to cows. Well, I heard it from someone that Video Game Junkie has two girlfriends, and he keeps both of them secret from each other and his parents so nobody will know that he is dating nonmembers.  Go ahead and prove me wrong.  I want to watch.

Now, if you would be so kind as to prove that Elder Kimball said what you've claimed -- and quoting a work of yellow journalism that itself cannot back up its words is not proof.

 

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

The funny thing is my family tree goes back to Joseph Smith so I may have one awkward family reunion with him in heaven if I don't agree with him 100 percent.

You might find it even more awkward being confronted by the Lord after publicly condemning His prophet for doing what he was told to do by the Lord.  

[Stargazer]

On 12/16/2015 at 10:33 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Who is Brian Hales?

Since you are apparently unfamiliar with the art of using search engines in the pursuit of information on the web, I shall be generous and help you out on this subject.

Encouraging Joseph Smith to Practice Plural Marriage: The Accounts of the Angel with a Drawn Sword by Brian C. Hales

 

[sdc999]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You've asked that we prove that Elder Kimball never compared women to cows. Well, I heard it from someone that Video Game Junkie has two girlfriends, and he keeps both of them secret from each other and his parents so nobody will know that he is dating nonmembers.  Go ahead and prove me wrong.  I want to watch.

Now, if you would be so kind as to prove that Elder Kimball said what you've claimed -- and quoting a work of yellow journalism that itself cannot back up its words is not proof.

 

VGJ, you sly devil you.  Two?  I can barely handle my 1 wonderful bride.  Although when she turned 40 I asked if I could swap her in for 2 - 20's.  I got the 'look'.  Still married though for an amazing 22+ years.  Besides, what was Elder Kimball thinking in that comparison?   My wife is 'udderly' amazing.  

[VideoGameJunkie]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You've asked that we prove that Elder Kimball never compared women to cows. Well, I heard it from someone that Video Game Junkie has two girlfriends, and he keeps both of them secret from each other and his parents so nobody will know that he is dating nonmembers.  Go ahead and prove me wrong.  I want to watch.

Now, if you would be so kind as to prove that Elder Kimball said what you've claimed -- and quoting a work of yellow journalism that itself cannot back up its words is not proof.

 

How'd you find out about that?

[VideoGameJunkie]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You might find it even more awkward being confronted by the Lord after publicly condemning His prophet for doing what he was told to do by the Lord.  

Are you judging my worthiness?

[Walden]

On 12/16/2015 at 9:25 PM, JLHPROF said:

Absence of a teaching is not a denial of a teaching.  The CFR was that "'the church' taught that Joseph Smith never practised polygamy."

And I for one have no issue with anything you've posted here.  This little blip in eternity cannot be what is used to judge eternal things.  Besides VGJ, I though "love is all that matters".

Lying by omission, otherwise known as exclusionary detailing, is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Walden

[Danzo]

41 minutes ago, Walden said:

Lying by omission, otherwise known as exclusionary detailing, is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception.

Ever read D&C 132? (I know it is at the end of the D&C, but still)

 

Publishing something in the scripture for as long as I can remember hardly constitutes an omission.

[Walden]

44 minutes ago, Danzo said:

Ever read D&C 132? (I know it is at the end of the D&C, but still)

 

Publishing something in the scripture for as long as I can remember hardly constitutes an omission.

Of course I read D&C 132, however, in all my years of growing up in the church and going through Primary, Young Mens and 4 years of full attendance at Seminary did I ever hear of it being practiced by Joseph Smith. Lot's of lessons about polygamy as practiced by Brigham Young and later prophets and apostles (including my great-great-great grandfather Parley Pratt).

If you read any number of posts by multiple posters on the board, this type of omission was a common occurrence, more frequently than could be accounted for by any regional variations in church beliefs of practices. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Ever read D&C 132? (I know it is at the end of the D&C, but still)

 

Publishing something in the scripture for as long as I can remember hardly constitutes an omission.

Can you name one time this was discussed in Gospel Doctrine or PH or RS, that you know about?  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Walden said:

 

If you read any number of posts by multiple posters on the board, this type of omission was a common occurrence, more frequently than could be accounted for by any regional variations in church beliefs of practices. 

Then how do you account for those of us who knew that JS practiced it?

Edited December 17, 2015 by Calm

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Can you name one time this was discussed in Gospel Doctrine or PH or RS, that you know about?

It was discussed in my gospel doctrine class a couple of years back.

But that's still an arbitrary requirement.  If we never discussed Christ, his atonement is still in scripture.  If we never discussed baptism it's still in scripture.  WE are accountable to study our own religion for ourselves.  Expecting to be spoon fed every piece of doctrine and history by the Church is just wrong.

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It was discussed in my gospel doctrine class a couple of years back.

But that's still an arbitrary requirement.  If we never discussed Christ, his atonement is still in scripture.  If we never discussed baptism it's still in scripture.  WE are accountable to study our own religion for ourselves.  Expecting to be spoon fed every piece of doctrine and history by the Church is just wrong.

I believe it's relevant, judge.

[Danzo]

33 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Can you name one time this was discussed in Gospel Doctrine or PH or RS, that you know about?  

I can remember it being discussed in priesthood, sunday school and institute, as well as in our family scripture study when the section came up.

 

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, Walden said:

Of course I read D&C 132, however, in all my years of growing up in the church and going through Primary, Young Mens and 4 years of full attendance at Seminary did I ever hear of it being practiced by Joseph Smith. Lot's of lessons about polygamy as practiced by Brigham Young and later prophets and apostles (including my great-great-great grandfather Parley Pratt).

If you read any number of posts by multiple posters on the board, this type of omission was a common occurrence, more frequently than could be accounted for by any regional variations in church beliefs of practices. 

The text itself strongly suggests that Joseph Smith was commanded to practice it.  You have to pretty much ignore the actual text to think that Joseph Smith didn't practice.

 

But that might mean that you would have to have actually read the text, (its a long section, its at the back of the book)

 

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Danzo

[Russell C McGregor]

3 hours ago, Walden said:

Lying by omission, otherwise known as exclusionary detailing, is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception.

While lying by commission, otherwise known as making stuff up, is what we see when the Church is accused of lying by omission.

 

[Walden]

50 minutes ago, Calm said:

Then how do you account for those of us who knew that JS practiced it?

From my experience, they are the minority and the exception to the rule.