Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Is this proclamation well known today? I think it's interesting reading especially the quoted paragraph from near the first page. But be wary, I found it on the evil Tanner's web site. Those people in 1842 were very confident in what they were doing. link removed. We do not allow links to sites with temple content. Find this quote somewhere else and use a reference including author and date. "And now, O ye kings, rulers, and people of the Gentiles: hear ye the word of the Lord; for this commandment is for you. You are not only required to repent and obey the gospel in its fulness, and thus become members or citizens of the kingdom of God, but you are also hereby commanded, in the name of Jesus Christ, to put your silver and your gold, your ships and steam-vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters, into active use, for the fulfillment of these purposes. For be it known unto you, that the only salvation which remains for the Gentiles, is for them to be identified in the same covenant, and to worship at the same altar with Israel. In short, they must come to the same standard. For, there shall be one Lord, and his name one, and He shall be king over all the earth."
rockpond Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 6 minutes ago, Sanpitch said: Is this proclamation well known today? I think it's interesting reading especially the quoted paragraph from near the first page. But be wary, I found it on the evil Tanner's web site. Those people in 1842 were very confident in what they were doing. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/proclamationoftwelve.htm "And now, O ye kings, rulers, and people of the Gentiles: hear ye the word of the Lord; for this commandment is for you. You are not only required to repent and obey the gospel in its fulness, and thus become members or citizens of the kingdom of God, but you are also hereby commanded, in the name of Jesus Christ, to put your silver and your gold, your ships and steam-vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters, into active use, for the fulfillment of these purposes. For be it known unto you, that the only salvation which remains for the Gentiles, is for them to be identified in the same covenant, and to worship at the same altar with Israel. In short, they must come to the same standard. For, there shall be one Lord, and his name one, and He shall be king over all the earth." Isn't this still current church doctrine? Ultimately, to be saved, don't we believe everyone has to make the same temple covenants? And that the Lord will reign over the earth? 2
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 25 minutes ago, Sanpitch said: "but you are also hereby commanded, in the name of Jesus Christ, to put your silver and your gold, your ships and steam-vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters, into active use, for the fulfillment of these purposes." I doubt this part is enforced.
bluebell Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 5 minutes ago, Sanpitch said: I doubt this part is enforced. I don't understand what you mean. How would anyone enforce it? Commandments aren't ever enforced, are they? 2
HappyJackWagon Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 5 minutes ago, bluebell said: I don't understand what you mean. How would anyone enforce it? Commandments aren't ever enforced, are they? I agree that I don't know how the church would enforce this upon the world, though God could. Obedience to commandments is continually enforced so I'm not sure what you're claiming.
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 19 minutes ago, bluebell said: I don't understand what you mean. How would anyone enforce it? Commandments aren't ever enforced, are they? "but you are also hereby commanded, in the name of Jesus Christ, to put your silver and your gold, your ships and steam-vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters, into active use, for the fulfillment of these purposes." It just seemed a little ridiculous looking at it from today's point of view. Just a little humorous to me.
Storm Rider Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Doesn't really matter where you found it; why would you think differently? What exactly is the point of the thread? Are we supposed to be surprised that the prophet and the apostles have called the world to repent and to use all their wealth and methods of communication to come unto Christ? I appreciate the fact that they are speaking to the world at large. I wish they did that more often rather than just talk to the saints. 3
filovirus Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 24 minutes ago, Sanpitch said: I doubt this part is enforced. As far as I'm aware, wasn't it Satan's plan to save all. Just from the top of my head, he could have done this by 1) having no law; 2) having no consequences of sin; 3) enforcing the law so all MUST comply. Each one of those options would take away agency in and of their own right. I don't see it bad that the church does not force either members or non-members to obey. But a call to repentance is not a bad thing either. 1
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) 8 minutes ago, filovirus said: As far as I'm aware, wasn't it Satan's plan to save all. Just from the top of my head, he could have done this by 1) having no law; 2) having no consequences of sin; 3) enforcing the law so all MUST comply. Each one of those options would take away agency in and of their own right. I don't see it bad that the church does not force either members or non-members to obey. But a call to repentance is not a bad thing either. To me it seems a little over zealous of them and over confident of their status. You can take it any way you wish. Ed: I meant that to reply to Storm Rider, oh well. I do my best Edited December 15, 2015 by Sanpitch
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 The paragraph I quoted reminds me of the over confidence of the so called prophet Warren Jeffs. For those not aware, Jeffs made all kinds of threats and prophecies if he was not released for prison. He currently is in prison in Texas for too many under age brides.
JAHS Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Information I have on this is the following: The Proclamation of 1845 was issued by the Twelve only, because at that time there was no First Presidency due to the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph Smith on June 27, 1844, and a new First Presidency was not organized until December 1847. The Proclamation was apparently made in response to a revelation given January 19, 1841 (D&C 124:1-11). It was first printed in a sixteen-page pamphlet in New York City on April 6, 1845, and again in Liverpool, England, October 22, 1845. It was addressed to the rulers and people of all nations. This document was an announcement that God had spoken from the heavens and had restored the gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth. It spoke of blessings and of punishments to come, issued a warning voice, and invited all who were interested to assist in the building of the kingdom of God on the earth in preparation for the Savior's second coming. On October 3, 1975, President Ezra Taft Benson, president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, spoke of this Proclamation and quoted portions of it in his general conference address (Ensign 15 [Oct. 1975]:32-34). 4
hope_for_things Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sanpitch said: For be it known unto you, that the only salvation which remains for the Gentiles, is for them to be identified in the same covenant, and to worship at the same altar with Israel. In short, they must come to the same standard. For, there shall be one Lord, and his name one, and He shall be king over all the earth." I've read that the early church saints considered themselves Gentiles, this is how the BoM identifies Europeans who came to the Americas. But over time as more patriarchal blessings declared lineage this identification as Gentiles began to change and saints would consider themselves not just adopted to the house of Israel, but literal descendants. It sounds to me in this 1845 pronouncement that they are referring to themselves as well as the rest of the inhabitants on this continent as Gentiles. Edited December 15, 2015 by hope_for_things correct a date 1
The Nehor Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 1 hour ago, Sanpitch said: "but you are also hereby commanded, in the name of Jesus Christ, to put your silver and your gold, your ships and steam-vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters, into active use, for the fulfillment of these purposes." It just seemed a little ridiculous looking at it from today's point of view. Just a little humorous to me. I am guessing the rulers then found it equally amusing and ridiculous. I do not think time has made it so. This proclamation was made because it was commanded by revelation. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 1 hour ago, Sanpitch said: The paragraph I quoted reminds me of the over confidence of the so called prophet Warren Jeffs. For those not aware, Jeffs made all kinds of threats and prophecies if he was not released for prison. He currently is in prison in Texas for too many under age brides. I think the too-much confidence is on your part in ridiculing a proclamation by the Lord's anointed and comparing it to the leader of an apostate group who is now a convict serving time in prison. 1
bluebell Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I agree that I don't know how the church would enforce this upon the world, though God could. Obedience to commandments is continually enforced so I'm not sure what you're claiming. To enforce something just means to compel observance of something or to cause it to happen by force. I can't think of any examples of God forcing anyone to obey Him.
hope_for_things Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Wow, I just finished reading the entire proclamation, and I've got to say I'm finding it pretty amazing. I'm shocked at how much of the content I totally don't identify with, and how different and foreign the sentiments are in that document from what I'm used to hearing in our modern church. I'm also surprised that after reading this document its helping me to realize something that I probably wasn't willing to admit before. I just don't believe in the second coming anymore. I think that through my faith transition I've lost the fear of impending destruction that used to dominate my religious identity. More recently in my faith journey I've been saying that I'm trying to live life the best I can, and if the end of the world happens in my life or not, it doesn't change how I need to live. But today, after reading this proclamation, I realize I just flat out don't believe any of the second coming, apocalypse, millennium, end of the world paradigm anymore. I don't believe Jesus is coming back to establish something physical. I don't believe God cares about the Jews or house of Israel any more than God cares about any other groups of people. I really just don't buy the whole picture painted in this proclamation. I think its all a bunch of nonsense. Wow, that felt good for me to admit to myself. I've never been a doom and gloom person, thats just not part of my makeup. And now I can honestly say, I don't believe these prophesies for our future have any validity. I think they are wrong with all the other erroneous prophecies throughout history, and I'm willing to admit that to myself. Edited December 15, 2015 by hope_for_things 1
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I think the too-much confidence is on your part in ridiculing a proclamation by the Lord's anointed and comparing it to the leader of an apostate group who is now a convict serving time in prison. Maybe, but this board sure needs another topic to discuss anyway I don't worry about it too much there is often digs at atheist and others by leaders of the church.
Sanpitch Posted December 15, 2015 Author Posted December 15, 2015 17 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Wow, I just finished reading the entire proclamation, and I've got to say I'm finding it pretty amazing. I'm shocked at how much of the content I totally don't identify with, and how different and foreign the sentiments are in that document from what I'm used to hearing in our modern church. I'm also surprised that after reading this document its helping me to realize something that I probably wasn't willing to admit before. I just don't believe in the second coming anymore. I think that through my faith transition I've lost the fear of impending destruction that used to dominate my religious identity. More recently in my faith journey I've been saying that I'm trying to live life the best I can, and if the end of the world happens in my life or not, it doesn't change how I need to live. But today, after reading this proclamation, I realize I just flat out don't believe any this second coming, apocalypse, millennium, end of the world stuff anymore. I don't believe Jesus is coming back to establish something physical. I don't believe God cares about the Jews or house of Israel any more than God cares about any other groups of people. I really just don't buy the whole picture painted in this proclamation. I think its all a bunch of nonsense. Wow, that felt good for me to admit to myself. I've never been a doom and gloom person, thats just not part of my makeup. And now I can honestly say, I don't believe these prophesies for our future have any validity. I think they are wrong with all the other erroneous prophecies throughout history, and I'm willing to admit that to myself. I might have to read the whole thing, it sounds interesting. I have before but that was years ago.
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