BlahBlahBlah Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I have asked this question in the course of discussion in several other threads, but I think it should have it's own thread with all of the references in one place. Considering the following, is it really possible to truly repent, forsaking sin and denying oneself of all ungodliness?https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/repentance-and-conversion?lang=engMay 2007Repentance and ConversionElder Russell M. NelsonOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesWhile the Lord insists on our repentance, most people don’t feel such a compelling need. 21 They include themselves among those who try to be good. They have no evil intent. 22 Yet the Lord is clear in His message that all need to repentnot only from sins of commission but from sins of omission as well.2 Nephi 25: 2323For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/two-lines-of-communication?lang=engNovember 2010Two Lines of CommunicationBy Elder Dallin H. OaksOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesBecause of what He accomplished by His atoning sacrifice, Jesus Christ has the power to prescribe the conditions we must fulfill to qualify for the blessings of His Atonement. That is why we have commandments and ordinances. That is why we make covenants. That is how we qualify for the promised blessings. They all come through the mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel, “after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/attempting-the-impossible?lang=engNovember 2009Attempting the ImpossibleElder Jorge F. ZeballosOf the SeventySalvation and eternal life would not be possible if it were not for the Atonement, brought about by our Savior, to whom we owe everything. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” 7https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng&media=videoJuly 1972Salvation and ExaltationElder Theodore M. BurtonAssistant to the Council of the TwelveExaltation comes as a gift from God, dependent upon my obedience to God’s law. No works I do solely of my own power can bring this to pass. Only by the grace of God has this course been opened to me, but only through obedience to the laws of God can I claim my inheritance in the celestial kingdom of my Heavenly Father as a son within his family. I cannot be exalted in my sins, but must work until I overcome them.Amulek the prophet explained this most clearly as he said of God:“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” (Alma 11:37.)https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/64370_eng.pdf?lang=eng2We believe that men will be punished for theirown sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.WHAT IS GRACE?(In the quad) Bible Dictionary P 697This Grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.Divine Grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man's weaknesses and shortcomings. However, Grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence, the explanation, "it is by grace we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Ne 25:23) It is truly the Grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/point-of-safe-return?lang=engApril 2007 Point of Safe ReturnDieter F. UchtdorfIt is not repentance per se that saves man. It is the blood of Jesus Christ that saves us. It is not by our sincere and honest change of behavior alone that we are saved, but “by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23). True repentance, however, is the condition required so that God’s forgiveness can come into our lives.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=engApril 1998 Have You Been Saved?Dallin H. OaksOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesAnd what is “all we can do”? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32).Moroni 10: 32, 3332Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace... 33And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins , that ye become holy , without spot.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/10/the-atonement-our-greatest-hope?lang=eng&media=audioOctober 2001 The Atonement: Our Greatest HopeJames E. FaustThe Atonement advances our mortal course of learning by making it possible for our natures to become perfect. 2 All of us have sinned and need to repent to fully pay our part of the debt. When we sincerely repent, the Savior’s magnificent Atonement pays the rest of that debt. 3Alma 11: 3737And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins ; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.Dallin H. Oaks April 1998 Have you Been Saved?https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=engWe are not saved in our sins, as by being unconditionally saved through confessing Christ and then, inevitably, committing sins in our remaining lives (see Alma 11:36–37). We are saved from our sins (see Hel. 5:10) by a weekly renewal of our repentance and cleansing through the grace of God and His blessed plan of salvation (see 3 Ne. 9:20–22).First Presidency MessageThe Gospel of RepentanceBy President Spencer W. Kimball"The Lord teaches that he cannot forgive people in their sins; he can only save them from their abandoned sins."https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng&media=videoSalvation and Exaltation Theodore M. Burton April 1972Exaltation comes as a gift from God, dependent upon my obedience to God’s law. No works I do solely of my own power can bring this to pass. Only by the grace of God has this course been opened to me, but only through obedience to the laws of God can I claim my inheritance in the celestial kingdom of my Heavenly Father as a son within his family. I cannot be exalted in my sins, but must work until I overcome them.Amulek the prophet explained this most clearly as he said of God:“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” (Alma 11:37.)D&C 42 Behold, he who has arepented of his bsins, the same is cforgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will aconfess them and bforsake them.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1980/10/forgive-them-i-pray-thee?lang=eng“Forgive Them, I Pray Thee”Vaughn J. Featherstone October 1980For one to be forgiven of sin, the Lord requires that he come unto him, mourn over his sins, forsake the sins, be teachable, forgive others, and confess..Again, in the fifty-eighth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, we read, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). ...actual forgiveness cannot take place until true repentance has preceded it.What happens if we repeat a sin? Double jeopardy.D&C 82: 77And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.Has anyone ever been successful at not repeating a sin?April 1995 "Finding Forgiveness" Richard G. Scotthttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/04/finding-forgiveness?lang=engAbandonment of sin. This is an unyielding, permanent resolve to not repeat the transgression. By keeping this commitment, the bitter aftertaste of that sin need not be experienced again. Remember: “But unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return.” 10 Joseph Smith declared: “Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not … pleasing in the sight of God.” 11If I haven't repented of my sin, is my baptism even valid?According to the Book of Mormon, I can do this:1 Nephi 3: 77And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.April 1986 The Call Of Duty Thomas S. Monsonhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1986/04/the-call-of-duty?lang=eng“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.” (1 Ne. 3:1–7.)When that same call comes to you and to me, what will be our response? Will we murmur, as did Laman and Lemuel, and say, “This is a hard thing required of us”? Or will we, with Nephi, individually declare, “I will go. I will do”?April 1994 "Live In Obedience" Joseph B. Wirthlinhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1994/04/live-in-obedience?lang=engThe Lord has admonished all of us to “keep [His] commandments and endure to the end.” 13No doubt, you young men have learned that obedience is not always easy. In fact, it can sometimes seem stifling, uncomfortable, or even impossible. “But with God all things are possible.” 14 You can be obedient. You can defeat Satan and overcome temptation. God “will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 15 The Lord does not expect anything of you that you cannot do. Remember Nephi’s faith when he testified that “the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.” 16D&C 1: 31,3231For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;32Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven ;April 1995 Finding Forgiveness Richard G.ScottObedience to all the commandments. Full obedience brings the complete power of the gospel into your life with strength to focus on the abandonment of specific sins. It includes things you might not initially consider part of repentance, such as attending meetings, paying tithing, giving service, and forgiving others. The Lord said: “He that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.” 13Repenting in the afterlifeAlma 34: 34,3534Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...October 1977 The Blessings of Righteous Obedience Delbert L. Stapleyhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/10/the-blessings-of-righteous-obedience?lang=engWe must recognize that mortality has been granted to us as a probationary state where all physical appetites are to be mastered. It is far more difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins which involve physical habits and actions. The words of Amulek in the Book of Mormon give emphasis to this principle: “Behold,” he said, “now is the time and the day of your salvation. …“This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. …“If we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. …“That same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.” (Alma 34:31–34.)It is obvious we either discipline our lives here, or pay the price for the undisciplined life in the world to come.Alma 42: 13Therefore, according to justice, the aplan of bredemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would ccease to be God.24For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.So my question is... is true repentance possible?
Duncan Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 We'll always have weaknesses and as long as we don't act on those weaknesses then we won't sin or transgress, so we can repent for our sins and just don't act anymore on those weaknesses
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 10, 2015 Author Posted October 10, 2015 We'll always have weaknesses and as long as we don't act on those weaknesses then we won't sin or transgress, so we can repent for our sins and just don't act anymore on those weaknesses What you describe is forsaking ALL sin and doing ALL one can do. No lust, no covetness, no road rage, no greed, envy, selfishness or lies. Not to sound arrogant or condescending, but did you do ALL you could yesterday? Are you doing ALL you CAN today? I'm sure you prayed this morning, was it 10 or 15 minutes? Could you have gotten up a little early and prayed 15 or 20? Do you see where I'm going with that? How does one really do ALL he can? How does one forsake ALL sin and deny himself of ALL ungodliness. How many commandments do I have to keep? Answer: all of them. How often do I have to keep them? Answer, all the time. Do you know anyone who has actually done this?
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 10, 2015 Author Posted October 10, 2015 Yes, it's. Not to sound arrogant or sarcastic, but have "you" truly repented Bluebell? Have you forsaken ALL Sin, denying yourself of ALL ungodliness? That's the requirement, right?
Duncan Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 What you describe is forsaking ALL sin and doing ALL one can do. No lust, no covetness, no road rage, no greed, envy, selfishness or lies. Not to sound arrogant or condescending, but did you do ALL you could yesterday? Are you doing ALL you CAN today? I'm sure you prayed this morning, was it 10 or 15 minutes? Could you have gotten up a little early and prayed 15 or 20? Do you see where I'm going with that? How does one really do ALL he can? How does one forsake ALL sin and deny himself of ALL ungodliness. How many commandments do I have to keep? Answer: all of them. How often do I have to keep them? Answer, all the time. Do you know anyone who has actually done this? I think you're conflating some things here. Sin isn't the same as trangression or mistakes. Elder Oaks wrote recently that porn addictions isn't all the same. No one can keep all of the commandments, if we could we wouldn't need the Saviour. I think desire has to do with it. I think about the people in the story about King Benjamin, after they heard him they didn't want to sin anymore. Did they though? of course they did! but they knew the light and wanted to get back to it, in the DC 109:21, it talks about "speedily repenting"
bluebell Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Not to sound arrogant or sarcastic, but have "you" truly repented Bluebell? Have you forsaken ALL Sin, denying yourself of ALL ungodliness?That's the requirement, right?I repent every day. LDS don't believe that repentance is a one time thing. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I've felt the biggest power of the spirit ever during a blessing where I was told I was forgiven of my sins at the time, so I know it's possible to be completely forgiven. No one is perfect. We all need repentance, but it is possible to be fully forgiven of every sin we've done. I believe that even though my biggest anxiety I have is about past mistakes I've made and how they effect my salvation. That's just the kind of brain I have.
bluebell Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I just want to throw this out there because I can see your focusing on the "after all we can do" verse of scripture. All I can do is to have faith in Christ, and repent of my sins. So, to quote the scripture, I am saved by grace after and when I have faith in Christ and repent. 4
Duncan Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I interpret that verse is "we" is Christ and me, so now it means in addition to all I do, beside all I do. -our works are necessary but insufficient 1
Ahab Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 Yes it is possible to repent. Of course it is.If it were not possible to repent we would have no choice but to keep choosing to sin every sin we have ever committed because it would not be possible to ever stop.But we can stop, and I know that from personal experience from stopping. From the fact that I no longer commit many of the sins that I once committed. I'm still working on some sins but I know I will get to the point where I don't commit them anymore just like I no longer commit many others. It just takes a lot of persistence to get to that point. 1
Calm Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) https://www.lds.org/topics/repentance?lang=engThe Lord has declared that “no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven” (Alma 11:37). Our sins make us unclean—unworthy to return and dwell in the presence of our Heavenly Father. They also bring anguish to our soul in this life.Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, our Father in Heaven has provided the only way for us to be forgiven of our sins (see Forgiveness). Jesus Christ suffered the penalty for our sins so we can be forgiven if we sincerely repent. As we repent and rely on His saving grace, we will be cleansed from sin.Repentance is sometimes a painful process, but it leads to forgiveness and lasting peace. Through the prophet Isaiah, the Lord said, “Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool” (Isaiah 1:18). In this dispensation the Lord has promised, “He who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more” (D&C 58:42). Repentance includes the following elements:Faith in Our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. The power of sin is great. To become free from it, we must turn to our Heavenly Father, pray in faith, and act as He asks us to. Satan may try to convince us that we are not worthy to pray—that our Father in Heaven is so displeased with us that He will never hear our prayers. This is a lie. Our Father in Heaven is always ready to help if we will come to Him with a repentant heart. He has the power to heal us and to help us triumph over sin.Repentance is an act of faith in Jesus Christ—an acknowledgment of the power of His Atonement. We can be forgiven only on His terms. As we gratefully recognize His Atonement and His power to cleanse us from sin, we are able to “exercise [our] faith unto repentance” (Alma 34:17).Sorrow for Sin. In order to be forgiven, we must first acknowledge within ourselves that we have sinned. If we are striving to live the gospel, such an acknowledgment will lead to “godly sorrow,” which “worketh repentance to salvation” (2 Corinthians 7:10). Godly sorrow does not come because of the natural consequences of sin or because of a fear of punishment; rather, it comes from the knowledge that we have, through our actions, displeased our Heavenly Father and our Savior. When we experience godly sorrow, we have a sincere desire for change and a willingness to submit to every requirement for forgiveness.Confession. “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy” (Proverbs 28:13). Essential to forgiveness is a willingness to disclose fully to our Heavenly Father all that we have done. We must kneel before Him in humble prayer, acknowledging our sins. We confess our shame and guilt, and then plead for help.Serious transgressions, such as violations of the law of chastity, may jeopardize a person's membership in the Church. Therefore, such sins need to be confessed to both the Lord and His priesthood representatives in the Church. This is done under the care of a bishop or branch president and possibly a stake or mission president, who serve as watchmen and judges in the Church. While only the Lord can forgive sins, these priesthood leaders play a critical role in the process of repentance. They will keep confessions confidential and help throughout the process of repentance.Abandonment of Sin. Although confession is an essential element of repentance, it is not enough. The Lord has said, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43).We must maintain an unyielding, permanent resolve that we will never repeat the transgression. When we keep this commitment, we will never experience the pain of that sin again. We must flee immediately from any compromising situation. If a certain situation causes us to sin or may cause us to sin, we must leave. We cannot linger in temptation and expect to overcome sin.Restitution. We must restore as far as possible all that has been damaged by our actions, whether that is someone's property or someone's good reputation. Willing restitution shows the Lord that we will do all we can to repent.Righteous Living. It is not enough to simply try to resist evil or empty our lives of sin. We must fill our lives with righteousness and engage in activities that bring spiritual power. We must immerse ourselves in the scriptures and pray daily for the Lord to give us strength beyond our own. At times, we should fast for special blessings.Full obedience brings the complete power of the gospel into our lives, including increased strength to overcome our weaknesses. This obedience includes actions we might not initially consider part of repentance, such as attending meetings, paying tithing, giving service, and forgiving others. The Lord promised, “He that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven” (D&C 1:32). Edited October 10, 2015 by Calm 2
Calm Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 https://www.lds.org/topics/atonement-of-jesus-christ?lang=engWhat is the Atonement?As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind. Because of His Atonement, all people will be resurrected, and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.As descendants of Adam and Eve, all people inherit the effects of the Fall. In our fallen state, we are subject to opposition and temptation. When we give in to temptation, we are alienated from God, and if we continue in sin, we experience spiritual death, being separated from His presence. We are all subject to temporal death, which is the death of the physical body (see Alma 42:6-9; D&C 29:41-42).The only way for us to be saved is for someone else to rescue us. We need someone who can satisfy the demands of justice—standing in our place to assume the burden of the Fall and to pay the price for our sins. Jesus Christ has always been the only one capable of making such a sacrifice.From before the Creation of the earth, the Savior has been our only hope for “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come” ( D&C 59:23).Only He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. From His mortal mother, Mary, He inherited the ability to die. From His immortal Father, He inherited the power to overcome death. He declared, “As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” ( John 5:26).Only He could redeem us from our sins. God the Father gave Him this power (see Helaman 5:11). The Savior was able to receive this power and carry out the Atonement because He kept Himself free from sin: “He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them” ( D&C 20:22). Having lived a perfect, sinless life, He was free from the demands of justice. Because He had the power of redemption and because He had no debt to justice, he could pay the debt for those who repent.Jesus's atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary. In Gethsemane He submitted to the will of the Father and began to take upon Himself the sins of all people. He has revealed some of what He experienced as He paid the price for our sins:“I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;“Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—“Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men” ( D&C 19:16-19; see also Luke 22:44; Mosiah 3:7).The Savior continued to suffer for our sins when He allowed Himself to be crucified—“lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world” ( 1 Nephi 11:33).On the cross, He allowed Himself to die. His body was then laid in a tomb until He was resurrected and became “the firstfruits of them that slept” ( 1 Corinthians 15:20). Through His death and Resurrection, He overcame physical death for us all.Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5-10; Helaman 14:15-17). Through the Savior's gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we “apply the atoning blood of Christ” ( Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 2
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 I want to first thank everyone for your thoughtfull replies. I think you're conflating some things here. Sin isn't the same as trangression or mistakes. Hello Duncan and thank you for yours. Can you give me an example of a transgression or mistake that is not considered a sin? Elder Oaks wrote recently that porn addictions isn't all the same. So, some porn is ok? No one can keep all of the commandments, if we could we wouldn't need the Saviour. If I uinderstand the doctrine of repentance correctly, the saviour's perfect sacrifice only grants eternal life, after all we have done. (2 Ne 25;23) Then we qualify for grace and can be raised from the dead. But only if we have repented. It's still up to us to forsake ALL sin and deny ourself of ALL ungodliness before grace applies. Right? I think desire has to do with it. I think about the people in the story about King Benjamin, after they heard him they didn't want to sin anymore. Did they though? of course they did! but they knew the light and wanted to get back to it, in the DC 109:21, it talks about "speedily repenting" As long as one repents prior to death, there is no problem. See Alma 34:34,35 above.
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 I repent every day.LDS don't believe that repentance is a one time thing. Why do you have to repent every day? Doesn't repenting mean forsaking all of your sins and denying yourself of all ungodliness? If you've done that, why do you have to do it again? If I'm still sinning after I have repented, have I truly repented?D&C 82: 77And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.April 1995 "Finding Forgiveness" Richard G. Scotthttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/04/finding-forgiveness?lang=engAbandonment of sin. This is an unyielding, permanent resolve to not repeat the transgression. By keeping this commitment, the bitter aftertaste of that sin need not be experienced again. Remember: “But unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return.” 10 Joseph Smith declared: “Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not … pleasing in the sight of God.” 11
BlahBlahBlah Posted October 11, 2015 Author Posted October 11, 2015 I interpret that verse is "we" is Christ and me, so now it means in addition to all I do, beside all I do. -our works are necessary but insufficient Duncan, I'm lost. Sorry.
Duncan Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) I want to first thank everyone for your thoughtfull replies. Hello Duncan and thank you for yours. Can you give me an example of a transgression or mistake that is not considered a sin? So, some porn is ok? If I uinderstand the doctrine of repentance correctly, the saviour's perfect sacrifice only grants eternal life, after all we have done. (2 Ne 25;23) Then we qualify for grace and can be raised from the dead. But only if we have repented. It's still up to us to forsake ALL sin and deny ourself of ALL ungodliness before grace applies. Right? As long as one repents prior to death, there is no problem. See Alma 34:34,35 above. tee hee. Read this and this https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/dallin-h-oaks_sins-mistakes/ https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/recovering-from-the-trap-of-pornography?lang=eng The Saviour's sacrifice grants immortality and eternal life. We can't earn our way to heaven, you or me or anyone. We are saved but with conditions. I want to do good things,works because I am saved though the atonement of Christ see 2 Nephi 10:24-25 Edited October 11, 2015 by Duncan
JAHS Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 I want to first thank everyone for your thoughtfull replies. Hello Duncan and thank you for yours. Can you give me an example of a transgression or mistake that is not considered a sin? So, some porn is ok? If I uinderstand the doctrine of repentance correctly, the saviour's perfect sacrifice only grants eternal life, after all we have done. (2 Ne 25;23) Then we qualify for grace and can be raised from the dead. But only if we have repented. It's still up to us to forsake ALL sin and deny ourself of ALL ungodliness before grace applies. Right? As long as one repents prior to death, there is no problem. See Alma 34:34,35 above.To me "forsaking all sins" means we no longer have a desire to sin; that we have turned our backs on it. Our hearts have been changed to the point that it is no longer in our nature to commit sin. Everyone will slip up from time to time and still commit sins, but God knows our hearts and whether or not we enjoy or hate to sin. When we do sin and follow it with sincere repentence it is a good indication that we forsake all sins. 1
willy1 Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 In the mentioning of the scripture in Alma 34:34-35, I feel that it is stating that we will have the same desires of our hearts as we do in this world that we will in the eternal world to come. Taking the opportunites that we have each day to reflect on the mistakes we make and pleading with the Lord in forgiveness can help our hearts and desires turn to the Lord and do his will. I don't remember things very well, but I would feel it would be hard to remember each mistake that we have made throughout our lives in our last moments of breathe. Daily repentence can bring us the joy that is expressed in Alma 36:20-23. I too have experienced this joy of the burden of sin being lifted from me and being replaced by relief and great joy. 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 If you believe what Jesus taught us, it is.He died to give us the miracle of forgiveness. If we couldn't repent His sacrifice is in vain 1
california boy Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 You have collected an amazing set of scriptures and talks. I think you have your answer. You just need to pray about it and see how it all fits for you personally.
Vance Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 Jesus said it was so. 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Do you not believe Jesus?
Bobbieaware Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) I have asked this question in the course of discussion in several other threads, but I think it should have it's own thread with all of the references in one place.Considering the following, is it really possible to truly repent, forsaking sin and denying oneself of all ungodliness?https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/repentance-and-conversion?lang=engMay 2007Repentance and ConversionElder Russell M. NelsonOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesWhile the Lord insists on our repentance, most people don’t feel such a compelling need. 21 They include themselves among those who try to be good. They have no evil intent. 22 Yet the Lord is clear in His message that all need to repentnot only from sins of commission but from sins of omission as well.2 Nephi 25: 2323For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/two-lines-of-communication?lang=engNovember 2010Two Lines of CommunicationBy Elder Dallin H. OaksOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesBecause of what He accomplished by His atoning sacrifice, Jesus Christ has the power to prescribe the conditions we must fulfill to qualify for the blessings of His Atonement. That is why we have commandments and ordinances. That is why we make covenants. That is how we qualify for the promised blessings. They all come through the mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel, “after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/attempting-the-impossible?lang=engNovember 2009Attempting the ImpossibleElder Jorge F. ZeballosOf the SeventySalvation and eternal life would not be possible if it were not for the Atonement, brought about by our Savior, to whom we owe everything. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” 7https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng&media=videoJuly 1972Salvation and ExaltationElder Theodore M. BurtonAssistant to the Council of the TwelveExaltation comes as a gift from God, dependent upon my obedience to God’s law. No works I do solely of my own power can bring this to pass. Only by the grace of God has this course been opened to me, but only through obedience to the laws of God can I claim my inheritance in the celestial kingdom of my Heavenly Father as a son within his family. I cannot be exalted in my sins, but must work until I overcome them.Amulek the prophet explained this most clearly as he said of God:“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” (Alma 11:37.)https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/64370_eng.pdf?lang=eng2We believe that men will be punished for theirown sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.WHAT IS GRACE?(In the quad) Bible Dictionary P 697This Grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.Divine Grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man's weaknesses and shortcomings. However, Grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence, the explanation, "it is by grace we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Ne 25:23) It is truly the Grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/point-of-safe-return?lang=engApril 2007 Point of Safe ReturnDieter F. UchtdorfIt is not repentance per se that saves man. It is the blood of Jesus Christ that saves us. It is not by our sincere and honest change of behavior alone that we are saved, but “by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23). True repentance, however, is the condition required so that God’s forgiveness can come into our lives.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=engApril 1998 Have You Been Saved?Dallin H. OaksOf the Quorum of the Twelve ApostlesAnd what is “all we can do”? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32).Moroni 10: 32, 3332Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace... 33And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins , that ye become holy , without spot.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/10/the-atonement-our-greatest-hope?lang=eng&media=audioOctober 2001 The Atonement: Our Greatest HopeJames E. FaustThe Atonement advances our mortal course of learning by making it possible for our natures to become perfect. 2 All of us have sinned and need to repent to fully pay our part of the debt. When we sincerely repent, the Savior’s magnificent Atonement pays the rest of that debt. 3Alma 11: 3737And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins ; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.Dallin H. Oaks April 1998 Have you Been Saved?https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1998/04/have-you-been-saved?lang=engWe are not saved in our sins, as by being unconditionally saved through confessing Christ and then, inevitably, committing sins in our remaining lives (see Alma 11:36–37). We are saved from our sins (see Hel. 5:10) by a weekly renewal of our repentance and cleansing through the grace of God and His blessed plan of salvation (see 3 Ne. 9:20–22).First Presidency MessageThe Gospel of RepentanceBy President Spencer W. Kimball"The Lord teaches that he cannot forgive people in their sins; he can only save them from their abandoned sins."https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1972/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng&media=videoSalvation and Exaltation Theodore M. Burton April 1972Exaltation comes as a gift from God, dependent upon my obedience to God’s law. No works I do solely of my own power can bring this to pass. Only by the grace of God has this course been opened to me, but only through obedience to the laws of God can I claim my inheritance in the celestial kingdom of my Heavenly Father as a son within his family. I cannot be exalted in my sins, but must work until I overcome them.Amulek the prophet explained this most clearly as he said of God:“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” (Alma 11:37.)D&C 42 Behold, he who has arepented of his bsins, the same is cforgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will aconfess them and bforsake them.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1980/10/forgive-them-i-pray-thee?lang=eng“Forgive Them, I Pray Thee”Vaughn J. Featherstone October 1980For one to be forgiven of sin, the Lord requires that he come unto him, mourn over his sins, forsake the sins, be teachable, forgive others, and confess..Again, in the fifty-eighth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, we read, “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sinsbehold, he will confess them and forsake them” (D&C 58:43). ...actual forgiveness cannot take place until true repentance has preceded it.What happens if we repeat a sin? Double jeopardy.D&C 82: 77And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.Has anyone ever been successful at not repeating a sin?April 1995 "Finding Forgiveness" Richard G. Scotthttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/04/finding-forgiveness?lang=engAbandonment of sin. This is an unyielding, permanent resolve to not repeat the transgression. By keeping this commitment, the bitter aftertaste of that sin need not be experienced again. Remember: “But unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return.” 10 Joseph Smith declared: “Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not … pleasing in the sight of God.” 11If I haven't repented of my sin, is my baptism even valid?According to the Book of Mormon, I can do this:1 Nephi 3: 77And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.April 1986 The Call Of Duty Thomas S. Monsonhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1986/04/the-call-of-duty?lang=eng“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.” (1 Ne. 3:1–7.)When that same call comes to you and to me, what will be our response? Will we murmur, as did Laman and Lemuel, and say, “This is a hard thing required of us”? Or will we, with Nephi, individually declare, “I will go. I will do”?April 1994 "Live In Obedience" Joseph B. Wirthlinhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1994/04/live-in-obedience?lang=engThe Lord has admonished all of us to “keep [His] commandments and endure to the end.” 13No doubt, you young men have learned that obedience is not always easy. In fact, it can sometimes seem stifling, uncomfortable, or even impossible. “But with God all things are possible.” 14 You can be obedient. You can defeat Satan and overcome temptation. God “will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 15 The Lord does not expect anything of you that you cannot do. Remember Nephi’s faith when he testified that “the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.” 16D&C 1: 31,3231For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;32Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven ;April 1995 Finding Forgiveness Richard G.ScottObedience to all the commandments. Full obedience brings the complete power of the gospel into your life with strength to focus on the abandonment of specific sins. It includes things you might not initially consider part of repentance, such as attending meetings, paying tithing, giving service, and forgiving others. The Lord said: “He that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.” 13Repenting in the afterlifeAlma 34: 34,3534Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis , that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal...35For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you;...October 1977 The Blessings of Righteous Obedience Delbert L. Stapleyhttps://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/10/the-blessings-of-righteous-obedience?lang=engWe must recognize that mortality has been granted to us as a probationary state where all physical appetites are to be mastered. It is far more difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins which involve physical habits and actions. The words of Amulek in the Book of Mormon give emphasis to this principle: “Behold,” he said, “now is the time and the day of your salvation. …“This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. …“If we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. …“That same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.” (Alma 34:31–34.)It is obvious we either discipline our lives here, or pay the price for the undisciplined life in the world to come.Alma 42: 13Therefore, according to justice, the aplan of bredemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would ccease to be God.24For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.So my question is... is true repentance possible?Your confusion stems from a misinterpretation of the Prophet Nephi's words in 2 Nephi 25. Nephi did not mean to say that the saving grace of Christ can only be given to a believer after he or she has successfully repented of every sin and consistently performs to perfection every single commandment. Such an erroneous interpretation is at odds with the rest of the Book of Mormon.So what is Nephi actually teaching? All he is saying is that with every blessing of grace God is willing to bestow upon a believer there are usually a few actions the believer himself must take in order to open the door to make it possible to actually receive that saving grace. In other words, in almost every instance where there is a potential for the grace of God to be bestowed upon a believer there are certain indispensable things the believer himself MUST DO in order to allow the divine grace to flow into his life. Otherwise, as Paul warned, the grace that God desires to pour out into our lives is frustrated. So Nephi's expression "after all we can do" has reference to the few minimal things a believer himself MUST DO so as to open the floodgates and not frustrate the outpouring of the divine grace we all need each and every moment of our lives.Over and over again, throughout the New Testament, it is made prrfectly clear that the believers themselves must make decisions and perform some minimal actions of their own if they are to expect to receive God's empowering grace. For example, the Lord told Peter to pray always lest he -- Peter -- fall into temptation. So Peter was warned that unless he continued to pray to God in faith he could expect to fall into temptation, and he would have no one else to blame but himself if he did. The outpouring of God's grace upon Peter was contingent upon whether or not he continued to pray to God that he might be blessed with the spiritual strength needed to overcome the temptations and wiles of the devil. It was Peter's decision to make because the Latter-day Saints believe God doesn't force himself upon us if we are unwilling to reach out to him ("draw nigh unto God, and he will draw nigh unto you"). The Savior promised Peter divine aid (saving grace) to overcome the adversary of men's souls, but only IF Peter continued to humbly implore God for that divine assistance. In this case, ALL the Savior asked Peter to DO in order to receive that much-needed saving grace was to continually pray -- not to first become as morally perfect as God himself in every thought, deed and motivation before being able to receive that promised empowering grace. In this instance, sincere prayer was ALL Peter was required to DO in order to receive the empowering grace that would enable him to successfully resist the temptations of the devil. In the New Testament, the Apostle James also tells us "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble." So in this particular instance what the believer MUST DO is consciously decide to be truly humble before he can expect to receive additional significant outpourings of God's grace -- the free-will decision to be humble is what opens the floodgates of divine grace. And so it goes... We are not mind-controlled automatons, therefore we reap what we sow. Edited October 11, 2015 by Bobbieaware
Vance Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Was Jesus just blowing smoke here?
Vance Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, The author of Hebrews indicates that it is possible. Did he have it wrong?
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