Popular Post cinepro Posted October 8, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 8, 2015 I found this article to be an interesting summary of Elder Rendlund's life experience, as recounted by his niece: Dale was born to full Scandinavian immigrants who spoke no English when they first came to the U.S. in 1948/1950. All of the three oldest children, including Dale, spoke Swedish as their first language. Their father, my grandfather, was a construction worker, and they were very poor.• The entire family moved back to Scandinavia when Dale was about 10 to 13ish, where they spent time in Helsinki, Finland and Gothenburg, Sweden. They were fully immersed in Swedish culture there and went to Swedish speaking public schools. I have heard many stories about the meager resources they were living on there.• When the family came back to Utah, the children spoke no English and had little to no understanding of U.S. culture. They went through a great deal of adjustment.• When Dale was 19, he went on a full-time [LDS Church] mission to Sweden for 25 months where he was again completely immersed in Swedish culture.• In his late 20s, Dale was called to be the bishop of a newly-formed, inner-city, multi-cultural ward in Baltimore. (During this time he was also doing his medical residency and trying to support his wife who was in law school and going through chemotherapy for cancer).• For those who like to see strong women sharing their perspective, Dale's wife Ruth, is the real deal. In addition to raising an amazing daughter and excelling in her own dedicated church work, she rose to become a highly respected attorney and president of her law firm. In my family, it was understood that if something needed to be done in the world, just put Ruth on it and she will work miracles. She has been and will continue to be an amazing speaker, editor, supporter, and (if I know Ruth) a "not-so-subtle suggester" who will make Dale exponentially better in his work, and he knows it.• Dale and his wife have spent five of their last six years in Africa, where he served in the Africa Southeast Area Church presidency. He traveled extensively throughout his vast territory from Angola to Ethiopia to visit with people in extremely impoverished areas and circumstances. I have heard and read many stories about this time in their lives and the way Dale and Ruth fought to help people and grow the church there. Dale is not afraid to make bold decisions as he advocates for the needs of those he serves. And while most Church authorities in the area operate using only English, he was determined to learn French (the most predominant language in the area) so that he could effectively communicate with the people he served....' http://www.examiner.com/article/critics-too-quick-to-judge-new-mormon-apostle In the past, I can understand the perception that GAs were kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Utah-LDS culture (although I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to bust that stereotype). But seriously, once you get beyond "white" and "born in Utah", how can it be said that Elder Renlund's life experience is anything like any other Apostle's? 22
Duncan Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 he was just here in my Canadian city for a mission tour not 3 weeks ago, that makes him AOK in my books! 1
Popular Post iWriteStuff Posted October 8, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 8, 2015 I found this article to be an interesting summary of Elder Rendlund's life experience, as recounted by his niece: In the past, I can understand the perception that GAs were kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Utah-LDS culture (although I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to bust that stereotype). But seriously, once you get beyond "white" and "born in Utah", how can it be said that Elder Renlund's life experience is anything like any other Apostle's? The funny irony is that Christ's original 12 apostles could be classified as "kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Israel-Jewish culture". Nobody seems to blink at that, though.... That being said, the 12 and the 70 (especially) still have a multitude of unique characteristics about them! 8
Calm Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I don't think anyone blinked for a long time that LDS apostles were from European heritage, most often born in the US.One would expect that as long as the Church was limited to mostly US areas with a minority outside the states, mostly in Europe and Canada.That, however, is no longer the situation so it is hardly surprising to me that some expect leadership demographics to approach membership demographics. Edited October 8, 2015 by Calm 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I found this article to be an interesting summary of Elder Rendlund's life experience, as recounted by his niece: In the past, I can understand the perception that GAs were kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Utah-LDS culture (although I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to bust that stereotype). But seriously, once you get beyond "white" and "born in Utah", how can it be said that Elder Renlund's life experience is anything like any other Apostle's? Thanks for posting this. But the author already posted a link to it yesterday on the "Who really chose the new apostles?" thread. 1
Gray Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) The funny irony is that Christ's original 12 apostles could be classified as "kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Israel-Jewish culture". Nobody seems to blink at that, though.... That being said, the 12 and the 70 (especially) still have a multitude of unique characteristics about them! To be fair, the first apostles had to be within walking distance of each other. First century logistics and all. Edited October 8, 2015 by Gray 2
BTH&T Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I don't think anyone blinked for a long time that LDS apostles were from European heritage, most often born in the US.One would expect that as long as the Church was limited to mostly US areas with a minority outside the states, mostly in Europe and Canada.That, however, is no longer the situation so it is hardly surprising to me that some expect leadership demographics to approach membership demographics.So in your estimation it's about demographics rather than a simple "This is who the Lord wanted"?
jkwilliams Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I found this article to be an interesting summary of Elder Rendlund's life experience, as recounted by his niece: In the past, I can understand the perception that GAs were kind of a homogenous interfamilial blob of men formed in the Utah-LDS culture (although I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to bust that stereotype). But seriously, once you get beyond "white" and "born in Utah", how can it be said that Elder Renlund's life experience is anything like any other Apostle's? I had read that in the other thread. I have to say I'm impressed with Elder Renlund.
iWriteStuff Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 To be fair, the first apostles had to be within walking distance of each other. First century logistics and all. Yes, and who put them in that region to begin with? 1
Popular Post cinepro Posted October 8, 2015 Author Popular Post Posted October 8, 2015 Thanks for posting this. But the author already posted a link to it yesterday on the "Who really chose the new apostles?" thread. I didn't know that, which just proves that it deserves its own thread. Or I just wanted easy rep points. 10
HappyJackWagon Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 So in your estimation it's about demographics rather than a simple "This is who the Lord wanted"?Of course this gets you into the problem of saying, "God only wants white guys." I think Calm was saying that it is reasonable to expect leadership to reflect the general populace. Otherwise, it could appear as if there is discrimination at the highest level of leadership when naturally you would expect to see other ethnicities represented simply because they represent over 50% of the church. That said, Elder Renlund looks to have some very interesting life experience that may bring some different perspectives to discussions. Still, no matter how good a person is, no matter how much he strives to understand the experiences of minorities, it still is not his experience. For example, no matter how much I'd like to be able to champion gay, womens, or minority issues, I will always be limited because they are not my lived experience as a straight, white man.
Calm Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 So in your estimation it's about demographics rather than a simple "This is who the Lord wanted"?No, I am saying some people expect leadership to mirror membership and such expectation is natural imo. Not saying that expectations should rule decision making. 2
Gray Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, and who put them in that region to begin with? Their ancestors?
iWriteStuff Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Their ancestors? And who put their ancestors there? (I can do this all day, man ) 1
lowroom Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 A number of people I spoke with were surprised we did not have at least one of the new apostles from Central/South America or as a long shot from the African continent. I think that is to be expected when you are replacing 25% of the general members of the Quorum. I appreciate the life experience of Elder Rendlund but I would also appreciate an Apostle who really was not independently wealthy or successful in business and of color. 2
HappyJackWagon Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 And who put their ancestors there? (I can do this all day, man )Yeah, but please don't. It's pointless. Jesus and his disciples were all jews. Of course at that time they didn't claim to be a global religion.
smac97 Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) So in your estimation it's about demographics rather than a simple "This is who the Lord wanted"? First, I'm not sure this is an either/or situation. "Who the Lord wanted", I suspect, took into account "demographics." You will note the significant lack of Chinese, Eskimos, Scandinavian, etc. amongst the Twelve in the New Testament. It seems pretty clear that this was because the Lord chose His apostles, and because demographics played a part in the choosing. Second, I don't think we can reasonably disregard the prominent racial/cultural/national diversity in the Seventy. The LDS Church was overwhelmingly concentrated in the Intermountain West until the last 40 or so years, at which point international growth really started to take off. And with that growth has come leaders filtering "up" to the Seventy, with more than 1 in 3 of the First Quorum of Seventy being something other than "white American." Third, the overall growth of the Church, the passage of time, the development and stabilization of multi-generational families in the Church outside of the Intermountain West, the building of temples, advancements in technology, and other factors have combined to facilitate the rising up of capable, seasoned and spiritual men (and women) throughout the world who can and do not only serve in vital local leadership roles (RS Presidents, bishops, stake presidents, Area Seventies, etc.), but will increasingly contribute to the highest quorums and leadership roles in the Church. This is already taking place, and I believe will continue to become more apparent in the years ahead. Fourth, I utterly reject the implication by some folks (some of whom, sadly, are LDS) that Pres. Monson used notions of racial supremacy or racial inferiority when choosing the three men now called to the apostleship. There is no basis for such a charge. Finally, let's not let racebaiters, ark-steadiers and malcontents stir up racial discord and resentments amongst us. Let's just keep moving ahead. Thanks, -Smac Edited October 8, 2015 by smac97 4
iWriteStuff Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah, but please don't. It's pointless. Jesus and his disciples were all jews. Of course at that time they didn't claim to be a global religion.I seem to recall something about "Go ye into all the world...". How is that not a global religion? And are we going to claim that Christianity hasn't spread to all the world? My point(lessness) is that God has historically planted his vineyard in certain spots. Just because there are branches in other parts of the world isn't to say that the roots aren't firmly planted somewhere specific. In Jesus' day, obviously Israel. In the day of the Restoration, obviously the USA. All that aside, does anyone have a favorite talk/devotional/interview from Elder Renlund? I'd love to gain some insight on his background/training/etc. 1
Gray Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 And who put their ancestors there? (I can do this all day, man ) The Canaanites (Israel sprung out of the Canaanites in the region) 1
iWriteStuff Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 The Canaanites (Israel sprung out of the Canaanites in the region) Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we going through a lot of effort to say that God didn't plant his vineyard in Israel? 1
HappyJackWagon Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I seem to recall something about "Go ye into all the world...". How is that not a global religion? And are we going to claim that Christianity hasn't spread to all the world? My point(lessness) is that God has historically planted his vineyard in certain spots. Just because there are branches in other parts of the world isn't to say that the roots aren't firmly planted somewhere specific. In Jesus' day, obviously Israel. In the day of the Restoration, obviously the USA. All that aside, does anyone have a favorite talk/devotional/interview from Elder Renlund? I'd love to gain some insight on his background/training/etc.No. We're not going to claim that. No one has.I'm sure you're probably aware that there was no preaching to the gentiles until after Christ's death, right? So, no, it wasn't a global religion at the time of Christ. 2 centuries after Christ, I wonder how diverse the church leadership was. I wonder if they were all still Hebrews. Actually, I know the answer to that. 2 centuries after the organization of the church, where travel and technology allow it to truly be a global church, how diverse is the top leadership of the church?
HappyJackWagon Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we going through a lot of effort to say that God didn't plant his vineyard in Israel?Actually, wouldn't we say God planted his vinyard in Jackson County Missouri? People migrated away and then returned, right?Still doesn't explain the lack of diversity in top church leadership over nearly 200 years. Christianity was more diverse in 200 years than the church is now. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2015 Posted October 8, 2015 I didn't know that, which just proves that it deserves its own thread. No. It only proves you did not read the other thread.
strappinglad Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 A review of Acts 2 about the Day of Pentecost , indicates that as far as possible it was a global church, the believers were from many nations with diverse languages. Yet with all those varieties of believers to choose from , who replaced Judas ? 3
rewcox Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I seem to recall something about "Go ye into all the world...". How is that not a global religion? And are we going to claim that Christianity hasn't spread to all the world? My point(lessness) is that God has historically planted his vineyard in certain spots. Just because there are branches in other parts of the world isn't to say that the roots aren't firmly planted somewhere specific. In Jesus' day, obviously Israel. In the day of the Restoration, obviously the USA. All that aside, does anyone have a favorite talk/devotional/interview from Elder Renlund? I'd love to gain some insight on his background/training/etc.He spoke in April Conference. Check it out you'll like it!
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