Mark E Petersen On Race

[Sanpitch]

Has the Church ever apologized for this speech, I think they should have.  That speech was from 1954 at BYU, it has bothered me ever since, so racist.  It may be one man's opinion, but he was an Apostle.  People listened to him.  Think how you'd feel if you were of the Oriental or Black race, you were so much lower in status than the pure white race.  I love the fact that Mark would be willing to allow Blacks to have a Cadillac if they could afford it. Just selected paragraphs:

 

link removed

 

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection. He will get a place in the celestial glory. He will not go then with even the honorable men of the earth to the terrestrial glory, nor with the ones spoken of as being without law.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of the thing—what God hath separated, let not man bring together again."

 

 

Do not use links that contain temple content. This content was taken from the UTLM site, find it somewhere else next time.

​

[carbon dioxide]

 

Has the Church ever apologized for this speech, I think they should have.  That speech was from 1954 at BYU, it has bothered me ever since, so racist.  It may be one man's opinion, but he was an Apostle.  People listened to him.  Think how you'd feel if you were of the Oriental or Black race, you were so much lower in status than the pure white race.  I love the fact that Mark would be willing to allow Blacks to have a Cadillac if they could afford it. Just selected paragraphs:

 

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection. He will get a place in the celestial glory. He will not go then with even the honorable men of the earth to the terrestrial glory, nor with the ones spoken of as being without law.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of the thing—what God hath separated, let not man bring together again."

 

 

 

​

 

Why should the Church apologize for it.  The views that Peterson put forth were his views and not endorsed or taught by the Church.  I generally hate the idea of people apologizing for statements, positions, or actions of others.  The apology is meaningless. 

[JAHS]

Sure it sounds really racist now. Believe it or not at the time this was given no one thought much about it. It was a product of the times and conditions and opinions of society and some people living in the church at the time. By line upon line, precept by precept teaching we have received further light and knowledge about this subject and have made the necessary adjustments in our thinking. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by JAHS

[ttribe]

Prediction:  This thread will not end well.

[Duncan]

I am not worried about Elder Petersen or what happened in 1954 but I am more worried about people who still believe this stuff today

[Thinking]

Sure it sounds really racist now. Believe it or not at the time this was given no one thought much about it. It was a product of the times and conditions and opinions of society and some people living in the church at the time. By line upon line, precept by precept teaching we have received further light and knowledge about this subject and have made the necessary adjustments in our thinking. 

 

It took only two replies for somebody to appeal to the product of the times excuse.

 

Should not the true church be ahead of the times and not a product of them?

[carbon dioxide]

Prediction:  This thread will not end well.

Are you predicting a little pad lock appearing on our screen soon?

[carbon dioxide]

It took only two replies for somebody to appeal to the product of the times excuse.

 

Should not the true church be ahead of the times and not a product of them?

Usually but God allows humans to make mistakes in it so they can learn from it.

[Sanpitch]

Sure it sounds really racist now. Believe it or not at the time this was given no one thought much about it. It was a product of the times and conditions and opinions of society and some people living in the church at the time. By line upon line, precept by precept teaching we have received further light and knowledge about this subject and have made the necessary adjustments in our thinking. 

The JWs were never racist where Blacks of or others were concerned, why weren't they affected by "product of the times"?

 

ED to add:  I might have to reconsider the above statement after further reading.  I have depended on what I have been told.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Sanpitch

[ERayR]

It took only two replies for somebody to appeal to the product of the times excuse.

 

Should not the true church be ahead of the times and not a product of them?

 

Shouldn't one put some thought into their posts instead of inane rhetoric?

[ERayR]

The JWs were never racist where Blacks of or others were concerned, why weren't they affected by "product of the times"?

 

The JWs were/are just like their neighbors. At least the ones I know/knew.

[Sanpitch]

Is the church not responsible for what anyone says because it's their own opinion?  Then who can you trust and depend on if there's loose cannons going around giving their own opinion? 

[JAHS]

It took only two replies for somebody to appeal to the product of the times excuse.

 

Should not the true church be ahead of the times and not a product of them?

I took only three posts for someone to appeal to the shouldn't the true church be ahead of the times complaint

 

If Mark E Peterson were here now I am sure he would admit that he had  more to learn on the subject than what he knew at the time. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by JAHS

[Sanpitch]

Do you have any concern for the people who were hurt by talks such as Petersen's.  Brigham Young's statements were even worse but we better ignore that.

[Jeanne]

Why should the Church apologize for it.  The views that Peterson put forth were his views and not endorsed or taught by the Church.  I generally hate the idea of people apologizing for statements, positions, or actions of others.  The apology is meaningless. 

it would have made a lot of difference to my foster sister who waited to turn white..Pueblo Indians don't turn white.  The church should at least acknowledge that Mr. Peterson's remarks were not what the church believes.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Jeanne

[ttribe]

Are you predicting a little pad lock appearing on our screen soon?

 

Oh, yeah.  But it will get ugly before then.

[JAHS]

The JWs were never racist where Blacks of or others were concerned, why weren't they affected by "product of the times"?

How many JWs did you know in 1954?

[Calm]

There have been racist leaders in the past.  There are probably leaders these days that don't see all others as brothers and sisters in their hearts.  I even suspect there isn't one human being alive on earth that doesn't have someone they don't love as much as they should and probably most of us have a lot as it can be quite difficult to truly love someone you don't have a significant connection with.

 

In the next life when we realize where we have failed, I have no doubt that our former church leaders who devoted their lives to serving God will accept this teaching from him into their hearts and repent that they did not fully obey the commandment to love all others as we love ourselves.

 

And hopefully all of us will do the same.

 

As to what happens in the here and now, I need to care about what I do and how I love and show that love.  That is enough for me at this point.  If God wants me to tell others how they should be living their lives, he will undoubtedly let me know.  

[Duncan]

Do you have any concern for the people who were hurt by talks such as Petersen's.  Brigham Young's statements were even worse but we better ignore that.

 

 

do you know who these people are? 

[Sanpitch]

How many JWs did you know in 1954?

None but the wife has been one since 1965 and I have read and familiar with their history.  They stressed that we were all equal.

[JAHS]

None but the wife has been one since 1965 and I have read and familiar with their history.  They stressed that we were all equal.

So does the LDS church. From the Book of Mormon:

 

For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile. (2 Nep 26: 33)

 

That is what the church teaches. 

[ERayR]

People in and out of the Church ave done and still do things that are not right.  If we are waiting for apologies how about apologies from the anti-Mormon descendants for the inheritance stolen from my ancestors so that it could not be passed down to me. 

 

Also I hear no one crediting the Church for the money, time and effort put into seeing that impoverished Indian kids got a chance to get an education and break the poverty cycle.  It was far from a perfect program and I am sure that it had some problems but it did help some.

[TheSkepticChristian]

I am not worried about Elder Petersen or what happened in 1954 but I am more worried about people who still believe this stuff today

Some LDS still believe

1. The lamanite curse was dark skin

2. The Mark of Cain was Black skin (nothing to do with the priesthood ban)

3. The first humans are white

 

That is why we need a black Adam or Eve in at least on of the temple films.

It is not fair that Adam and Eve are always white American

 

 

The JWs were never racist where Blacks of or others were concerned, why weren't they affected by "product of the times"?

 

No only that, we LDS have the aid of the gift of the Holy Ghost. We LDS believe in objecte morality, and that God is the same yesturday, today, and forever.

 

So the "product of the times" is simply a bad argument.

 

 

Usually but God allows humans to make mistakes in it so they can learn from it.

 

I agree that God allows humans to make mistakes, I don't expect the apostles to be perfect, but I do expect them to better than most people

Edited August 27, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Bob Crockett]

None but the wife has been one since 1965 and I have read and familiar with their history. They stressed that we were all equal.

Holy cow. In the 30s and 40s they were virulenty anti Catholic. A lot of the Supreme Court freedom of religion cases concerned their right to insult catholics with degrading speech at funerals and other semipublic places. They were pariah and outcasts because of their terrible intolerance, but they were just doing Judge Rutherford's will. They are much different today.

And they practice shunning.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Bob Crockett

[carbon dioxide]

None but the wife has been one since 1965 and I have read and familiar with their history.  They stressed that we were all equal.

Basically we have a statement about 60 years ago made a BYU that few today would be considered relevant.  The Church did not adopt his views.  In fact a number of statements by others go against what he said about blacks being servants in the Celestial Kingdom (we will all be servants to God in the Celestial Kingdom even in our exalted states)

 

Brigham Young, who clearly believed in the "Curse of Cain," said "when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the Holy Priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the Priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we are now entitled to."—quoted by the First Presidency, August 17, 1949.

 

Wilford Woodruff said, "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have"—quoted by the First Presidency on August 17, 1949.

 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_racial_issues/Mark_E._Peterson_claims_that_Blacks_become_servants_in_heaven

Edited August 27, 2015 by carbon dioxide