Ahab Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Consecration is related to but different from sacrifice. The word consecrate means to develop and “dedicate to a sacred purpose.” Sacrifice is what I will offer, surrender, yield, or give up. Consecration, on the other hand, is to fully develop and dedicate to a sacred purpose. Please listen to the following description of the principle of consecration provided by President Ezra Taft Benson: “We covenant to live the law of consecration. This law is that we consecrate our time, talents, strength, property, and money for the upbuilding of the kingdom of God on this earth and the establishment of Zion (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 121). As we live the law of consecration, we are willing not only to offer anything and everything we possess for the sake of the gospel, but we also promise to develop and devote our best selves—our time, talents, and strength—to the building of the kingdom of God on the earth. Our pledge is: I will give me and all that I can become, and I will live for the gospel of Jesus Christ. The principle of sacrifice is a lesser law preparation for the principle of consecration. Consecration includes and encompasses sacrifice and much more. We are not only willing to offer up our possessions, but we will become the best we can be and assist however possible in building the kingdom in righteous ways. We will not only die for the gospel, but we will develop ourselves and live for the gospel. True consecration is motivated by charity and produces an increased desire to serve. The best application of the principle of consecration that I can think of, being developed and dedicated to a sacred purpose, is motherhood. Over the past 24 years I have watched my wife, a very talented, capable, and competent woman, as she has developed and dedicated herself to the holy purposes of our home. Some would say she has sacrificed or given up much to become the heart of our home and to rear and nurture our children. She has not given up anything; rather, she has been dedicated and consecrated to a holy purpose. She has developed herself and applied those skills as God has directed in the most important undertaking of a lifetime, which is the rearing and nurturing of children. (David A. Bednar, Your Whole Souls as an Offering Unto Him, Ricks College Devotional, January 5, 1999)That is one of his least eloquent discourses that I have seen. Everyone knows that any good Mother gives up a lot of things to nurture her children, his own wife included. It just doesn't feel like a sacrifice when their whole heart is into all they are giving and giving up for their children because of all they are gaining from those sacrifices. They are real life examples of giving up their own lives to find them.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I have to speak on promises in the Book of Mormon. Anyone willing to help me out there too? Haha I can't make threads to ask.
Ahab Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I have to speak on promises in the Book of Mormon. Anyone willing to help me out there too? Haha I can't make threads to ask.I don't know what you mean by wanting to speak on those promises. Can you elaborate a little?
MDalby Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I have to speak on promises in the Book of Mormon. Anyone willing to help me out there too? Haha I can't make threads to ask. Wow... There are so many different angles you could take on this topic. You are going to need to pray and see which aspect of the promises you should share with the Saints. - Promises made to Israel- Promises made to those who obey God's commandments- Promises made to those that do not obey God's commandments- Promises made to in the Abrahamic Covenant to fathers and families- Promises made to those who study the Word of God, including the Book of Mormon
The Nehor Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I like the bit in the D&C where we are told to be independent of everything under the Celestial Kingdom. That looks like self-reliance to most people from the outside looking in but is not. 1
rpn Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Self-reliance is about being prepared. Prepared emotionally, prepared spiritually, prepared financially, prepared physically, prepared as to health, body and mind, prepared planning and executing, the more use we are to our Heavenly Father in His work to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of mankind. And the more use we are to our families and communities. In good times and in bad. The easier it is to hear promptings of the Holy Ghost that are tough to hear under stress. 2
Five Solas Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Hi Five Solas. I've provided a few scriptural passages below which illustrate (at least to me) how self-reliance--i.e., Provident Living--is compatible with "God-Reliance." There are more and probably better examples, but perhaps these will suffice.I will say that I don't disagree with the John Piper quote you provided; however, I did not see it as a call to Christians to stop taking care of their own (and others') temporal needs. But I'm not familiar with John Piper or his teachings, so perhaps he was? If so, then I do very much disagree.Genesis 3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.Genesis 41[Joseph's interpretation of Pharaoh's dream]Proverbs 6:6-8Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.1 Timothy 5:8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.Hebrews 11:7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.Hey Okrahomer-- The Bible contains a number of admonitions to be good stewards of God's gifts (you've cited several of them). And likewise the Bible makes clear that we (as God's image-bearers) were created to work. You can find this as early in the story as Genesis 2:15, "The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it" (ESV). But to conflate good stewardship and admonitions to work diligently with "self-reliance" as a number of LDS posters are doing misses the central point of Scripture: God's Grace (grace simply means "unmerited favor"). Yes, read your examples--but read them in the context of Jesus's words found in Matthew 6:25-33. 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? (ESV) We're all God-reliant and to use Scripture to argue for self-reliance sets Scripture against Scripture & refutes Christ's words. Just my opinion, of course, but I think Piper has it exactly right and will stand up to a rigorous exegesis. My apologies if I've been overly strident on the topic. --Erik
thesometimesaint Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I prefer the word interdependent to the word independent.
The Nehor Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I prefer the word interdependent to the word independent.That word still makes me want to punch Coveyites in the face.
thesometimesaint Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 While a good word is a good word. I'm not a big fan of Steven Covey, but have no desire to hit him anywhere including his face.
bluebell Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I'm speaking in sacrament next week on the topic and I don't know that it is one I have though of much. How has self reliance brought you to Christ? Pres. Monson's home teaching message in the September 2014 Ensign is on being prepared and has a lot of good stuff in it. 1
Okrahomer Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) But to conflate good stewardship and admonitions to work diligently with "self-reliance" as a number of LDS posters are doing misses the central point of Scripture: God's Grace (grace simply means "unmerited favor"). Yes, read your examples--but read them in the context of Jesus's words found in Matthew 6:25-33.We're all God-reliant and to use Scripture to argue for self-reliance sets Scripture against Scripture & refutes Christ's words. Just my opinion, of course, but I think Piper has it exactly right and will stand up to a rigorous exegesis.--Erik I appreciate your response. That you are troubled with the words “self-reliance” is apparent, and I do see why. To you, the idea of “self-reliance” makes it sound like we do not need God. I understand the point you are making, and it is an important point. I think the problem is that your understanding of what is (for all intents and purposes) a purely LDS term is faulty. Maybe this will help:We believe that God has warned His children to be prepared—both spiritually as well as temporally—since the beginning of time. He continues to do so today. He does not warn us, because we have “earned” the right to be warned. He warns us because He loves us. So it was that Noah and Joseph were warned that calamitous events were about to unfold. God told them to prepare by building an ark and storing food—in other words, by becoming “self-reliant.” For Latter-day Saints it is the same. “Self-reliance” means we are heeding God’s warning to prepare; and He has only warned us because of the love He has for us--love which we did not earn. Edited August 18, 2015 by Okrahomer 2
Five Solas Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 ...I think the problem is that your understanding of what is (for all intents and purposes) a purely LDS term is faulty....I think you've cut to the chase here. If self reliance merely means obedience to God (e.g., build and ark and/or store food when God tells you to--your examples) then who will argue it's a bad thing? But that's certainly not a face value reading of the phrase. So why call it self reliance at all? Why not just call it obedience if that's all you mean? I'm guessing you have a reason. I do Appreciate your response, Okrahomer --Erik
Okrahomer Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I think you've cut to the chase here. If self reliance merely means obedience to God (e.g., build and ark and/or store food when God tells you to--your examples) then who will argue it's a bad thing? But that's certainly not a face value reading of the phrase. So why call it self reliance at all? Why not just call it obedience if that's all you mean?--ErikPerhaps this is simply a cultural thing? But if you and I were discussing the Ninth Commandment; would we be speaking simply of "Obedience", or would we perhaps zero-in on "Honesty"? If we were discussing the Second Commandment, would it help us focus the discussion if we used the term "Idolatry"? What's wrong with referring to "Chastity" or "Gratitude" or "Tithing" or "Worship" or "Sabbath"? There are a lot of commandments Christians are called to obey. For the Latter-day Saints, "Self-Reliance" simply encompasses a very specific subset. Edited August 19, 2015 by Okrahomer 2
Five Solas Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Perhaps this is simply a cultural thing? ...Sounds like you're working to make some sense of it yourself, Okrahomer. --Erik
Okrahomer Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Sounds like you're working to make some sense of it yourself, Okrahomer. --ErikWell...I am definitely "working"...but its mostly to make a friend. I wish you well, my friend.
CV75 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 I'm speaking in sacrament next week on the topic and I don't know that it is one I have though of much. How has self reliance brought you to Christ?The relationship between faith and knowledge is a form of self-reliance that brings us closer to Christ. Knowledge is the basis for self-reliance that is the basis for the confidence in taking the next step into the darkness in order to grow. The advancing "self"is only what Christ has given us, and as we continue to become one with Him, we give our agency (our wills) back to Him, and thus we show our devotion to Him.From an iPad while on vacation; limited participation.
Avatar4321 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 I'm looking for some quotes by Brigham young about us needing to do our part being consistent with our faith. I know I've read them I just can't find them!
Five Solas Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I'm looking for some quotes by Brigham young about us needing to do our part being consistent with our faith. I know I've read them I just can't find them!Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate (from your perspective, Avatar4321). Brigham Young said lots of things--a number of them highly unpleasant and repudiated by contemporary LDS (e.g., interracial marriage punishable by death, slavery as a divine institution, Adam-God doctrine). Do you not run risk of undermining your pro self-reliance message with any favorable quotes you might surface by Brigham Young? He's a very curious choice here in the 21st century. What is your motive? --Erik
Five Solas Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Sounds like you're working to make some sense of it yourself, Okrahomer. --ErikWell...I am definitely "working"...but its mostly to make a friend. I wish you well, my friend.Thank you, Okrahomer! If you're ever in Seattle I'll gladly buy you a root beer (but I don't promise to have one myself). :0) --Erik
Avatar4321 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 He's right. Is there another reason I should be aware of?
Five Solas Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 He [brigham Young]'s right. Is there another reason I should be aware of?That his teachings such as Adam-God doctrine, interracial marriage punishable by death, and slavery as a "divine institution"--that his teachings just might have been wrong. I'm just saying it's possible...;0)
Avatar4321 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 Read what he teaches and you'd disagree. Don't just pick and choose things you can use to malign others.
Okrahomer Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Thank you, Okrahomer! If you're ever in Seattle I'll gladly buy you a root beer (but I don't promise to have one myself). :0) --Erik I look forward to it. My wife and I were actually in Seattle last September. We had a wonderful time! If you're willing to spring for root beer, I will treat you to eggs benedict at Glo's. Edited August 21, 2015 by Okrahomer
Okrahomer Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I'm looking for some quotes by Brigham young about us needing to do our part being consistent with our faith. I know I've read them I just can't find them! Maybe you've already looked through this, but I think some of these are spot on. "My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, etc.; he will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years’ provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to [provide] bread [for] themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety (DBY, 291–92)." 1
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