Self Reliance That Brings Us To Christ

[Five Solas]

I look forward to it.  My wife and I were actually in Seattle last September.  We had a wonderful time!  If you're willing to spring for root beer, I will treat you to eggs benedict at Glo's.

That sounds awesome, Okrahomer.  But I suppose I should keep to "ex-mo" stereotype and decline on the grounds Glo's lacks a full bar.  Testimonies can be fragile things and i wouldn't want to do any careless harm (e.g., upset the mantra, 'members leave because they wanted to sin')

;0)

 

Seriously though, I'd take you up on it.  I'm in the U-District and I work downtown most days and Capital Hill is right in-between. 

 

--Erik

[Avatar4321]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/08/self-reliance?lang=eng

I just read through that talk by President packers about the need to be spiritually and emotionally self reliant. It's absolutely amazing. I definitely needed to think this one through

[Okrahomer]

That sounds awesome, Okrahomer.  But I suppose I should keep to "ex-mo" stereotype and decline on the grounds Glo's lacks a full bar.  Testimonies can be fragile things and i wouldn't want to do any careless harm (e.g., upset the mantra, 'members leave because they wanted to sin')

;0)

 

Seriously though, I'd take you up on it.  I'm in the U-District and I work downtown most days and Capital Hill is right in-between. 

 

--Erik

While there can be little doubt that Glo's customers draw nearer to the divine in her small "chapel of breakfast", I'm fairly sure it's a non-denominational experience--even we "mo's" were welcomed and rewarded warmly there. Of course, "services" are always extremely well-attended, so it may require a bit of divine intervention just to get a table. It will probably be a while before I make it back to Seattle, but it wouldn't hurt to start praying now. ;-)

[Five Solas]

I'm speaking in sacrament next week on the topic and I don't know that it is one I have though of much. How has self reliance brought you to Christ?

So what did you say?  How did it go? 

:0)

 

--Erik

[Avatar4321]

It went well. But then when the Spirit writes it it usually does.

I find most of the effort goes into studying up on the topic. Then I either write it down or jot notes and quotes and go more free style.

The Spirit gave me a good outline for it.

1) started with the commands throughout the scriptures to be self reliant along with quotes from the prophets. Then pose the question why it's so important and how it brings us to Christ.

2) defined what self reliance is and isn't. Which was actually much of what we discussed in the thread. Ill try to paraphrase what I wrote:

"In order to understand how self reliance is important and brings us to Christ we need to understand what we mean by self reliance. By self reliance we aren't talking about doing everything on our own without the Lord's help. Even if we wanted to that would be impossible. He created everything. He gave us our gifts and skills. He gave us our bodies and minds. He gives us the time we have to live. We literally cannot do anything that He hasn't already helped us with."

"When we speak of self reliance we are talking about relying on the hand of divine providence to take care of our needs and our families, in other words providential living. We are talking about providing for our own needs with the Lord's blessings rather than relying on the world. Being independent from friends , neighbors, communities, governments, charities, and even the Church for our support."

(Like I said a paraphrase)

3) Christ's mission as the messiah, particularly the part that focuses on freeing those who are bondage and uplifting the poor. Quoted Isaiah 61:1.

4) Discussed five Christ like qualities we develop through self reliance including: faith, integrity, thanksgiving, humility, and knowledge.

5) Discussed spiritual and emotional self reliance

All and all it was pretty good. And I got some good feedback from the ward. We had some extra time at the end so the bishopric shared some of the things they learned from the talks and I had strangers come up to me afterwards saying they liked the message. I didn't let it go to my head though cause I know it was the Spirit. I don't write that clearly so quickly.

[Five Solas]

Appreciate you sharing, Avatar4321.  I was invited to speak in a sacrament meeting--exactly once in the 10+ years I was a "young single adult" in the UW singles wards.  Interestingly my topic was The Prodigal Son (taken from Luke 15:11-32).  And in it, I shared my heart-felt perspective that the Kingdom of God was the Feast, not the Inheritance, and that the elder son, with his arrogance and (forgive me) self-reliance was no better than the younger in God's eyes, refusing to go in (v. 28). 

 

(For those unfamiliar, that's not exactly how LDS tell the parable.)  It was probably the opposite message you delivered.  But the response was not dissimilar, politeness, appreciation, kind words.  People half pay attention and often only hear what they want to.  But I suppose someone must have been paying attention--because I was never asked again. 

 

Thanks again, Avatar4321

 

--Erik

 

[Doctor Steuss]

D&C 58:26-28 could be interpreted to show that self-reliance helps one to be a good servant to the Master, and is an antidote for slothfulness.

 

Galatians 6:3-5 is probably another good scripture.  Although, verse 2 is what really sets the stage, IMO.

 

Something could likely be wrangled from the Parable of the Talents, too.

 

 

Edited:  I guess I should have made it all the way through the thread, prior to posting.  Glad your talk went well.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Doctor Steuss

[Okrahomer]

I read a very interesting article last Sunday that drew me back to this discussion.  Avatar, I hope you don’t mind me dredging it up again.  If you’d rather, I can start a new thread.  Anyway, about the article:

 

The author is Andrew Lewis, who is a Political Science Professor at the University of Cincinnati and a Fellow of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission Research Institute of the Southern Baptist Convention.  As near as I can tell, Mr. Lewis considers himself to be an Evangelical Christian; so I wondered if as a Mormon I would find much with which to disagree.  In fact, I did not.

 

I appreciated the explanatory power of "vertical and horizontal” commandments.  I had never heard or read those terms used before, and I can't say that I had ever noticed that the first four of the Ten Commandments are "vertical" or God-focused, while the next six are "horizontal" or man-focused; and that Jesus maintained this “vertical-horizontal” structure when he gave the first and second great commandments. (See Matthew 22:37-40).  Seeing it this way was helpful to me.  But even more helpful is how Lewis emphasizes the “vertical commandments” when he argues that Christian charity should be focused on creating liberty for people both in a spiritual as well as a physical sense; and that Christians are called to address both in their evangelism: 

"It is vital that Christians be committed to the pursuit of liberating people not only from eternal punishment through salvation in Christ but also from temporal difficulty. Christian salvation is holistic, so taking the Gospel to fallen man is not enough to recover the totality of man, whom God created in His image....God provides an unambiguous mandate for Christians to minister to the world both on a physical and spiritual level…many churches need to make the shift from ‘commodity-based’ charity that only hands out things, neglecting the causes of persistent poverty, to a transformational approach...that will enable the family to address its deeper problems and move to self-sufficiency and the ability to contribute to others.”
https://erlc.com/article/biblical-directives-for-combating-hunger-and-poverty

 

I have to applaud Mr. Lewis.  If I were giving a talk in my LDS Sacrament meeting about “Self-Reliance that draws us to Christ”; I think I could easily quote him.  Now compare Mr. Lewis’ “Evangelical” approach to a few LDS sources (and there are many, many more than these):

 

"Self-sufficiency [self-reliance] is the ability to maintain one's self and relates to women and men being agents for themselves. Independence and self-sufficiency are critical keys to spiritual and temporal growth. A situation that threatens one's ability to be self-sufficient also threatens one's confidence, self-esteem, and freedom. As dependence is increased, the freedom to act is decreased…New Testament teachings conceive of liberty as a person's relationship to God and others (Buttrick, p. 121). Christ gave his followers sacred charge and opportunity to serve the poor, needy, sick, and afflicted. Rather than looking on God as the only one able to provide, individuals as self-sufficient beings work together in mutual responsibility, compassion, gentleness, and love…In a gospel sense, there exists an interdependence between those who have and those who have not. The process of sharing lifts the poor, humbles the rich, and sanctifies both. The poor are released from bondage and limitations of poverty and are able to rise to their full potential, both temporally and spiritually. The rich, by imparting of their surplus, participate in the eternal principle of sharing. A person who is whole or self-sufficient can reach out to others, and the cycle of equality and giving repeats itself."

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Self-Sufficiency_(Self-Reliance)

 

“As disciples of Christ, we should give of ourselves-our time, talents, and resources-to care for those in need. We are better able to fulfill this responsibility if we are striving to become self-reliant, for we cannot give what we do not have. When we wisely use those things that the Lord gives us, we become more able to give to the Lord’s work and provide for others”  “With Heavenly Father’s help, we can face the challenges of our mortal lives with confidence and peace of mind and become self-reliant in the Lord’s way. This includes recognizing that we need the Lord’s help in all things."

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-gospel-and-the-productive-life-student-manual-religion-150/chapter-9-becoming-self-reliant-in-the-lords-way?lang=eng

 

I think it’s great to find areas where Mormons and Evangelicals can agree.  All too frequently, it seems we stumble over terms and words without actually getting to true intent.  In this case, unless he considers arguing over a word more important than agreeing—I’d have to say that Andy Lewis (believing Evangelical that he is) sees “self-reliance” exactly as we Mormons do.

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by Okrahomer

[Avatar4321]

I don't mind the topic continuing. It's a topic I enjoy. Probably because i feel that I fail at it so much and yet desire it.