Anakin7 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 On the way home from work today here in Southern California I was listening to a evangelical radio broadcast [ I Think it was K-Wave ] and the host was interviewing a professor from a college [cannot remember which one] who was a lesbian who promoted her worldview in her discussions with others [Christian and non Christian ]. She had written something that had been recieved by a local Pastor [And others] who invited her to his home for a meal in which the initial meeting having no spiritual discussions just temporal discussions [ My memory does not recall all the events] but she was invited to church and in which she went and met other Christians and she stated that she met Jesus in reading the Holy Bible and through a series of events she became a Christian and has totaly changed her worldview of life after she met Jesus. Can a Investigator [ Or a member ] meet Jesus Christ in reading the Holy Bible - the Book of Mormon - The Doctrine and Covenants - Pearl of Great Price ?. Thank in advance for your thoughts. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Storm Rider Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 This sounds like hyperbole rather than epiphany. Anyone who reads scripture can encounter or come to know God. Why wouldn't that be true? 3
Anakin7 Posted August 8, 2015 Author Posted August 8, 2015 Anyone can read scripture but without a humble heart and contrite spirit it will be just words on a page. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted August 8, 2015 Popular Post Posted August 8, 2015 Anyone can read scripture but without a humble heart and contrite spirit it will be just words on a page.In His Eternal Debt/GraceAnakin7 Anakin, if the Spirit teaches someone through reading the scriptures it is a real experience. I have never thought that the Holy Spirit only touches the hearts of just Mormons or any other single, specific religious group. I believe the Holy Ghost can and does work with everyone, all the children of our Father in Heaven. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. Do you think there are restrictions on who can feel the Spirit and who cannot based solely on their religious affiliation? 7
Anakin7 Posted August 8, 2015 Author Posted August 8, 2015 I suppose it means a supernatural encounter. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted August 8, 2015 Author Posted August 8, 2015 No stormrider I am just asking a question, nothing more or less. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Brian 2.0 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I suppose it means a supernatural encounter.In His Eternal Debt/GraceAnakin7 I'm assuming though that the story you are sharing wasn't Jesus walking through the door in the flesh at the dinner party and shaking this lady's hand. She had an internal/emotional/spiritual experience, right?
JLHPROF Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I suppose it means a supernatural encounter.In His Eternal Debt/GraceAnakin7 That's very vague.Anyone can experience the spiritual presence of the Savior internally.But I don't believe just anyone can have the Savior physically present. The Savior's discussion with the Brother of Jared gives at least one requirement - some serious, major, faith.
Robert F. Smith Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Anyone can read scripture but without a humble heart and contrite spirit it will be just words on a page.In His Eternal Debt/GraceAnakin7C. S. Lewis, as an atheist professor at Oxford University, made the mistake of reading Christian literature, and was converted. He saw it as subversive literature. The Words of Life have the power to convert any of us, even those who are not humble and contrite. Mere Christianity is a powerful influence for good in the world. Never understimate it. Why? Because such testimony is accompanied by the ;witness of the Holy Spirit. 2
Flyonthewall Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Joseph Smith was not Mormon when he read the bible, which led him to pray in the grove, which led to the First Vision... a literal meeting with Jesus Christ.
reubendunn Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 The invitation, at least in the Book of Mormon is to "Come unto Christ." There is a specific, direct invitation to have that experience. The invitation in the New Testamant, and in the Old Testament, is identical. One question that I would ask Anakin7 is, what do you mean when you use the term "Real Mormon"? Is that the same thing as a "Real Christian"?
theplains Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Can a Investigator [ Or a member ] meet Jesus Christ in reading the Holy Bible - the Book of Mormon - The Doctrine and Covenants - Pearl of Great Price ?. Thank in advance for your thoughts. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Do you mean a Jesus who has always been the Eternal God, the LDS version of Jesus who is the firstspirit child of heavenly parents - who progressed into a God, or Jesus - a prophet of Islam? Thanks,Jim 1
Five Solas Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Do you mean a Jesus who has always been the Eternal God, the LDS version of Jesus who is the firstspirit child of heavenly parents - who progressed into a God, or Jesus - a prophet of Islam? Thanks,JimWhat, no 4th option for the "illegal alien" caught mowing Mitt Romney's lawn?!? It don't matter which Jesus you believe in as long as you believe in one of 'em, right? Don't go about making "offenders for a word.";0) --Erik PS. Tongue firmly in my cheek. Apologies in advance to any deeply offended. Tolerating critics is a sign of strength, not weakness. Please don't suspend me again.
Anakin7 Posted August 9, 2015 Author Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) theplains thank you for reminding me why I am no longer an evangelical christian of your House. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited August 9, 2015 by Anakin7
JLHPROF Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Do you mean a Jesus who has always been the Eternal God, the LDS version of Jesus who is the firstspirit child of heavenly parents - who progressed into a God, or Jesus - a prophet of Islam? Thanks,Jim Well, the first and third don't exist, so I'll go with the second.
JLHPROF Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Joseph Smith was not Mormon when he read the bible, which led him to pray in the grove, which led to the First Vision... a literal meeting with Jesus Christ. Not sure I agree with that.Was the first vision a vision or a visitation? There was no physical contact so who can say for sure.
Flyonthewall Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Not sure I agree with that. Was the first vision a vision or a visitation? There was no physical contact so who can say for sure.In my mind, whether it was a vision or visitation, it makes no difference, either way Jesus Christ was revealed to him. I think it was both a vision and a visitation. If it was Joseph's conciousness/spirit and not physical body that met Christ, it is the same to me because the body is temporary and the spirit is who we are.
JLHPROF Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 In my mind, whether it was a vision or visitation, it makes no difference, either way Jesus Christ was revealed to him.I think it was both a vision and a visitation. If it was Joseph's conciousness/spirit and not physical body that met Christ, it is the same to me because the body is temporary and the spirit is who we are. But it makes a difference to the topic of this thread.Yes, anyone can "meet Jesus" spiritually. But not anyone can enter his actual presence without being consumed by his glory.
The Nehor Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Not sure I agree with that.Was the first vision a vision or a visitation? There was no physical contact so who can say for sure. How do you know that?
Flyonthewall Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) But it makes a difference to the topic of this thread. Yes, anyone can "meet Jesus" spiritually. But not anyone can enter his actual presence without being consumed by his glory.The narration of the experience indicates he was indeed in the presence of the Father and Son - he was changed or re-inforced to withstand their presence, as he was physically spent because of the experience. That is how I see it anyways. Edited August 9, 2015 by Flyonthewall 3
JLHPROF Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 How do you know that? Because he recorded none (which I realise is inconclusive).Because the description of the events he did record required no physical contact (which is also inconclusive, but also more evidence). Was it a vision or a visitation? I still say we don't know. If it was a visitation (ie, the actual presence of God and Christ) then the rules governing entering into their presence would need to be either applied or explained why they didn't.Either they veiled their glory thus preventing his being consumed, they didn't veil their glory but Joseph Smith was somehow able to withstand it without preparation, or it was a vision and they weren't actually present physcially. I don't think Joseph ever clarified. 16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home.
Blah Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Not sure I agree with that.Was the first vision a vision or a visitation? There was no physical contact so who can say for sure.According to a second hand account, Joseph said he did not see Christ until after the Father had touched his eyes. (I'm on my phone, so I can't really link to the account at the moment.) 2
JLHPROF Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 According to a second hand account, Joseph said he did not see Christ until after the Father had touched his eyes. (I'm on my phone, so I can't really link to the account at the moment.) God touched his eyes with his finger and said “[Joseph] this is my beloved Son hear him.” As soon as the Lord had touched his eyes with his finger he immediately saw the Savior. After meeting, a few of us questioned him about the matter and he told us at the bottom of the meeting house steps that he was in the House of Father Smith in Kirtland when Joseph made this declaration, and that Joseph while speaking of it put his finger to his right eye, suiting the action with the words so as to illustrate and at the same time impress the [occurrence] on the minds of those unto whom He was speaking.—Diary of Charles Lowell Walker (Logan, UT: Utah State University Press, 1980), 2:755–56 [recorded 2 February 1893] 2
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