FormerLDS Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Final resurrection? OK. Don't believe me. Look it up and bring it on if I'm wrong.
FormerLDS Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Heck, I'm an apostate, and even I know that's not correct in LDS doctrine. See section 132 for an example of someone having his eternal life sealed upon him in this life (I'm not saying that he actually did receive eternal life, but that's what is said). If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead.
FormerLDS Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead. Eternal Life, or Exaltation.In the scriptures, the words saved and salvation often refer to eternal life, or exaltation (see Abraham 2:11). Eternal life is to know Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and dwell with Them forever—to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom (see John 17:3;D&C 131:1–4; 132:21–24). To receive this great gift, we must do more than repent of our sins and be baptized and confirmed by appropriate priesthood authority. Men must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and all Church members must make and keep sacred covenants in the temple, including eternal marriage.If we use the word salvation to mean eternal life, none of us can say that we have been saved in mortality. That glorious gift can come only after the Final Judgment.
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead. I'm not talking about salvation in any LDS sense of the word. D&C 132 explicitly and unequivocally seals someone to eternal life in this life, independent of anything else. Did you miss that part?
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the end of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father.
Anakin7 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Posted August 12, 2015 Former perhaps you missed my question to you - Do you believe in "onced saved always saved ?, do you believe that Holy Writ and True Salvation History Teach that ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
boblloyd91 Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Satan is a deceiver. What else would you expect? "Oh I could never do that. It's too sick and wrong." Seriously? Yes, seriously. You aren't even remotely understanding the implications of what I'm saying. If what you are saying is true then basically Joseph read the bible sincerely, prayed sincerely, and instead of answering his prayer, God allowed a sincere seeker of truth to be deceived by Satan in a glorious fashion. Your thinking is basically implying that God gave Joseph a stone instead of bread, and a serpent instead of fish, which really seems to go against some scriptures I have read in Matthew Yes Satan is a deceiver, yes he can appear as an angel of light, but the bible is clear that with faith light can overcome darkness, God wants us to be saved, and that through faith in Christ we can overcome any snare Satan sets before us. As someone else mentioned, Joseph reported a dark force tried to prevent him from praying. Based on what you are saying are we to assume that this was God?
Anakin7 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Posted August 12, 2015 The whole article which Former left out - http://www.lds.org/manuel/true-to-the-faith/salvation?lang=eng In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
FormerLDS Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 I'm not talking about salvation in any LDS sense of the word. D&C 132 explicitly and unequivocally seals someone to eternal life in this life, independent of anything else. Did you miss that part? Being "sealed up" unto eternal life is not the same as actually having eternal life. It is only a "promise" nothing more, nothing less and certainly not the same as actually having eternal life. Having a ticket to Walt Disney World is not the same as actually being there.
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Being "sealed up" unto eternal life is not the same as actually having eternal life. It is only a "promise" nothing more, nothing less and certainly not the same as actually having eternal life. Having a ticket to Walt Disney World is not the same as actually being there. Actually, it is, in LDS doctrine. There's nothing in the scriptures that says eternal life comes only after the resurrection and judgment. Apparently, that's the timeline for a lot of people, but not all.
Bobbieaware Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) 1 John 5:5 explains this: "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"Would be easy to see those who believe (i.e. have eternal life) are those who overcome.Your answer utterly ignores the context in which the Savior's promise that saints may obtain the right be seated on his throne -- if they first overcome the world -- is given. As one reads the 2nd and 3rd chapters of the Book of Revelation, it becomes perfectly clear the risen Lord is calling upon members of the Church. who already believe in him, that they must repent before they can expect to obtain the full blessings of eternal life. In the case of the Laodicean Church, the Savior upbraids the believers there and tells them that while they have deluded themselves into thinking they are doing well with regard to their profession of faith, in reality he's so disgusted with their lukewarm efforts to live the Gospel that he's ready to "spew them out of his mouth." So his warning to the Laodicean saints is that they must repent of their lukewarm efforts and zealously focus on overcoming the world if they are to expect to have a legitimate hope of gaining the right to his throne. Here are the Savior's words ito give proper context: 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 AS MANY AS I LOVE I REBUKE AND CHASTEN, BE ZEALOUS therefore, and REPENT. (Revelation 3)So when the Savior warns the Laodicean saints that they must be zealous and repent, that zealousness and repentance is to be applied in a holy quest overcome the world.A question for you: If you believe that you are already enjoying the fullness of the blessings of eternal life, do you believe your life as a resurrected being in heaven, in the immediate presence of God and Christ, will be exactly the same in every way as the life you're now living with a mortal body on this fallen world? Edited August 12, 2015 by Bobbieaware
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Only fake Mormons are allowed to meet him. That makes sense: the fake Mormons would meet the wrong Jesus. Maybe there's hope for you and me yet. PS. I have it on good authority that there's a special place in hell reserved for us technical writers.
The Nehor Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 That makes sense: the fake Mormons would meet the wrong Jesus. Maybe there's hope for you and me yet. :)PS. I have it on good authority that there's a special place in hell reserved for us technical writers.If I go to hell I am going via orgies, gluttony (food and otherwise), and abject debauchery. Going to hell for something as mundane as my job seems like a colossal waste.
theplains Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 And lest you object, you need to know that in LDS theology Christ was the eternal God BEFORE he was born as a spirit child of God the Father in the spirit world. In Mormonism, God is the indestructible Spirt of Truth that has no beginning and can have no end. According to the LDS teachings that I have seen, both Jesus and Heavenly Father progressedinto becoming Gods. If you need references, I can easily provide them. Let me know. Thanks,Jim
The Nehor Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 According to the LDS teachings that I have seen, both Jesus and Heavenly Father progressedinto becoming Gods. If you need references, I can easily provide them. Let me know. Thanks,JimYes, but if you do not dwell in time upon becoming a God is there a time in which you are not God?
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 If I go to hell I am going via orgies, gluttony (food and otherwise), and abject debauchery. Going to hell for something as mundane as my job seems like a colossal waste. Some days our job does feel like a colossal waste. I enjoy it, though, most of the time.
The Nehor Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 Some days our job does feel like a colossal waste. I enjoy it, though, most of the time.No, my job is fulfilling. If I am going to be damned though I would rather have fun with it.
jkwilliams Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 No, my job is fulfilling. If I am going to be damned though I would rather have fun with it. I should say my job felt like a waste at my previous job. I spent almost 5 months scrounging up things to do every day because they had nothing set for me to work on. I love my job when I'm busy, and I'm busy now.
Flyonthewall Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 The reality is that according to LDS doctrine, the "Jesus Christ" of the CJCLDS has never given anyone eternal life. If you don't agree, look it up. Jesus Christ said in John 6:54 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." In John 10:28, Jesus Christ said "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." How can a "Christ" who has never given eternal life to anyone be the same "Christ" as one who gives eternal life?I see you take that verse quite literally... tell me: Who has eaten the flesh of Jesus? Who has drank His blood? If the definition of Eternal Life is to live eternally in God's presence, tell me, who in mortality has done that? That scripture also says that it will be the LAST day that he will be raised. Last day of what? Does this "last day" occur in this mortal life? What time frame is put out there that Jesus will "give unto them" eternal life? The verse before it says "they follow me". How long do they have to follow Him? Just think about it? 1 second? 1 minute? 1 hour? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? A simple search took me to D&C 132:49. Is there more to this line of reasoning? or is that all you have? 1
Flyonthewall Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 1 John 5:5 explains this: "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" Would be easy to see those who believe (i.e. have eternal life) are those who overcome.So all you have to do is "believe" and you have eternal life... Is this what you are saying? How long do you have to "believe"?
Bobbieaware Posted August 12, 2015 Posted August 12, 2015 According to the LDS teachings that I have seen, both Jesus and Heavenly Father progressedinto becoming Gods. If you need references, I can easily provide them. Let me know. Thanks,JimYou seem to have missed the whole point of my post. We Latter-day Saints believe God can still be God but also go through new phases of growth in new realms, just as the eternal God Jesus Christ did when he came to earth and learned how to be obedient in a world of new challenges. It is just as Paul said of Christ's life on earth... 8 Though he were a Son, yet LEARNED HE OBEDIANCE by the things which he suffered; 9 And being MADE PERFECT , he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Hebrews 5)You see, in the LDS religion God can still be God while going through new phases of challenge and growth, and the earthlife of Jesus Christ is the proof of it. We believe that God was always God, but like Christ he experienced growth and challenges in other realms. Latter-day Saints don't believe God is Plato's static, quiescent being.
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