JLHPROF Posted April 14, 2015 Author Posted April 14, 2015 Ahhhh Poor Bruce... once the King of LDS and Mormon Doctrine... his book was almost canon to most LDS.... he is now marginalized and put down. But LDS Doctrine does not change...... you bet..... Oh, as you well know, in my case it was the changes Bruce wanted to make to the early doctrines that I have an issue with. LDS doctrine may change officially, but truths don't. If two prophets/apostles clearly disagree on a point of doctrine, only one (or neither) of them can be right. Where Bruce disagreed with President Young and his contemporaries, I disagree with Bruce...er, I mean, Elder McConkie. He had no right to change any doctrines.
Teancum Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Oh, as you well know, in my case it was the changes Bruce wanted to make to the early doctrines that I have an issue with. LDS doctrine may change officially, but truths don't. If two prophets/apostles clearly disagree on a point of doctrine, only one (or neither) of them can be right. Where Bruce disagreed with President Young and his contemporaries, I disagree with Bruce...er, I mean, Elder McConkie. He had no right to change any doctrines. Well for much of Brigham's odd teachings prior leaders had already thrown him under the bus. Such is the consistency of LDS doctrine.
JLHPROF Posted April 14, 2015 Author Posted April 14, 2015 Well for much of Brigham's odd teachings prior leaders had already thrown him under the bus. Such is the consistency of LDS doctrine. True.
Storm Rider Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Well for much of Brigham's odd teachings prior leaders had already thrown him under the bus. Such is the consistency of LDS doctrine. Are you attempting to add to the conversation or is your objective something else? I for one think you have long gone past the line; stop while you are ahead.
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, not the Father
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, not the FatherYeah, and??? Did any one claim otherwise? Is Jesus the Father?
bluebell Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, not the Father Don't disagree. However, we follow the example of Christ in our relationship with God the Father.
jackson20 Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Mormons say they worship Christ....but they worship a "created Christ". This is NOT the Biblical Christ...so one would have to conclude that Mormons do not and cannot consider themselves Christian. The Christ they believe in is the polar opposite to the Christ spoken of in the Bible. The table below if easily shown with scripture in the Bible. rtual Office | Michael Davis' Mormonism Homepage | Mormonism Topical Index ] Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about Jesus Mormon Teaching Biblical Teaching Conception Jesus was conceived by physical union between God the Father and Mary 1 Jesus was conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit 2 Marital Status Jesus had several wives 3 No indication that Jesus was married 4 Relationship to Satan Jesus was the brother of Lucifer (Satan) 5 Satan is only a fallen, created angel 6 Origin Jesus was created 7,11 Jesus always was, is now, and forever shall be God; all things were created through Jesus 8 Deity The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods 9 There is only one God, but three distinct Persons in the Godhead 10 His Constancy Jesus is our elder brother who progressed to become a god 11 Jesus has existed as God eternally 12 Role in Our Salvation Jesus Christ plays only an initial role in our salvation 13 Salvation is through trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, apart from any work by us 14 Certain sins are beyond the atoning blood of Christ 15 Christ's sacrifice on the cross was complete 16 Jesus is only one of many saviors 17 Jesus is the one and only Savior 18 Personal Relationship A personal relationship with Christ is discouraged as false doctrine 19 A personal relationship with Christ is a central part of Christianity 20
JLHPROF Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 Mormons say they worship Christ....but they worship a "created Christ". This is NOT the Biblical Christ...so one would have to conclude that Mormons do not and cannot consider themselves Christian. The Christ they believe in is the polar opposite to the Christ spoken of in the Bible. The table below if easily shown with scripture in the Bible. rtual Office | Michael Davis' Mormonism Homepage | Mormonism Topical Index ]Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about Jesus Mormon Teaching Biblical Teaching Conception Jesus was conceived by physical union between God the Father and Mary 1 Jesus was conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit 2 Marital Status Jesus had several wives 3 No indication that Jesus was married 4 Relationship to Satan Jesus was the brother of Lucifer (Satan) 5 Satan is only a fallen, created angel 6 Origin Jesus was created 7,11 Jesus always was, is now, and forever shall be God; all things were created through Jesus 8 Deity The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods 9 There is only one God, but three distinct Persons in the Godhead 10 His Constancy Jesus is our elder brother who progressed to become a god 11 Jesus has existed as God eternally 12 Role in Our Salvation Jesus Christ plays only an initial role in our salvation 13 Salvation is through trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, apart from any work by us 14 Certain sins are beyond the atoning blood of Christ 15 Christ's sacrifice on the cross was complete 16 Jesus is only one of many saviors 17 Jesus is the one and only Savior 18 Personal Relationship A personal relationship with Christ is discouraged as false doctrine 19 A personal relationship with Christ is a central part of Christianity 20 This thread is about "method and recipients of worship", not "are Mormons Christian".Please do not derail my thread.
bluebell Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Mormons say they worship Christ....but they worship a "created Christ". This is NOT the Biblical Christ...so one would have to conclude that Mormons do not and cannot consider themselves Christian. The Christ they believe in is the polar opposite to the Christ spoken of in the Bible. The table below if easily shown with scripture in the Bible. rtual Office | Michael Davis' Mormonism Homepage | Mormonism Topical Index ]Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about Jesus Mormon Teaching Biblical Teaching Conception Jesus was conceived by physical union between God the Father and Mary 1 Jesus was conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit 2 Marital Status Jesus had several wives 3 No indication that Jesus was married 4 Relationship to Satan Jesus was the brother of Lucifer (Satan) 5 Satan is only a fallen, created angel 6 Origin Jesus was created 7,11 Jesus always was, is now, and forever shall be God; all things were created through Jesus 8 Deity The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods 9 There is only one God, but three distinct Persons in the Godhead 10 His Constancy Jesus is our elder brother who progressed to become a god 11 Jesus has existed as God eternally 12 Role in Our Salvation Jesus Christ plays only an initial role in our salvation 13 Salvation is through trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross alone, apart from any work by us 14 Certain sins are beyond the atoning blood of Christ 15 Christ's sacrifice on the cross was complete 16 Jesus is only one of many saviors 17 Jesus is the one and only Savior 18 Personal Relationship A personal relationship with Christ is discouraged as false doctrine 19 A personal relationship with Christ is a central part of Christianity 20 If you are going to post a list of what mormons teach about Jesus Christ, at least post one written by a mormon so it's actually true. I won't address them since it's not the topic of the thread but I will say that not every word ever uttered by a member of the church (even a leader) is considered mormon doctrine. There are many things in the list above that are NOT what the LDS church teaches. If the LDS church really is what you believe it to be, then your arguments against it should be able to stand up to the truth. Learn what we actually teach and then speak on that. Edited April 15, 2015 by bluebell
HOLY CATHOLIC Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Jesus is not the Father, that's modalism a heresy in evangelic and Catholic circles
The Nehor Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, not the FatherPretty sure they would bow at either.
JLHPROF Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 Pretty sure they would bow at either. Depending on the actual name of the Father (presumably he has one...)
bluebell Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Jesus is not the Father, that's modalism a heresy in evangelic and Catholic circlesIt's a heresy in LDS circles as well.
JAHS Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Jesus is not the Father, that's modalism a heresy in evangelic and Catholic circles Jesus having the title of "Father" is not heresy in Mormon circles.
JLHPROF Posted April 15, 2015 Author Posted April 15, 2015 It's a heresy in LDS circles as well. Jesus having the title of "Father" is not heresy in Mormon circles. How Christ moves from being our elder brother to our Father is one of the great doctrines of the atonement, and doesn't get the attention it deserves.
bluebell Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 How Christ moves from being our elder brother to our Father is one of the great doctrines of the atonement, and doesn't get the attention it deserves.But regardless, Christ is not God the Father, as I know you know. Anyone accusing LDS of modalism is accusing us of something we believe to be a heresy. 1
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