Conference Will Explore Issues Of Race In The Lds Church

[mormonnewb]

For those of you waiting for the Sunstone conference, you may be interested in this fireside held on the subject of those who feel marginalized in the LDS community, focusing on race and LGBt issues:

 

http://www.mormonhistoryguy.com/episodes/MHG-OneHeartFireside.mp3

 

Lots of great music btw.

 

Just listened to that yesterday!  Your friend, Russell, does some AMAZING work putting these things together.  I got a particular kick out of Brother Perkins, who like myself, is very understated in expressing his opinions

[BlueDreams]

My results: "Your data suggest little to no difference in implicit preference between Black People and White People."

I am not sure if there's much validity to that test but it was sort of interesting, I suppose. I grew up with a brown skinned sister and a brown skinned brother, along with several white-skinned siblings.I never attributed any particular significance to the difference in skin color until I went to basic training and all the black guys made a huge deal out of the fact that I had a brown skinned sister.

 

I took that test a few times. The first time I showed not preference...it was highly validating at the time. Then last semester I took it again for a gender & ethnicity class. I showed a slight preference to black people. I wanted my "perfect" score from the previous test. So I went on facebook and looked at pics of the white side of my family to balance me out then took it. Now I had a slight preference for white people. I took another test on there that wasn't related and then took it one last time....back to my initial no preference! 

 

So I think there is at least some simple contextual influences that could at least change it a little....because it's based on subconscious ques. My guess is that it would be harder to alter moderate or strong preferences to a neutral position by simple exposure tactics that I used though.

 

As for your response actually to me. I'll get to that a little later. I'm exhausted tonight and can't read straight for longer than a paragraph or two.

 

with luv,

BD

[pogi]

The only thing that I would challenge is the assertion that just because SOME have overcome racism, then others shouldn't be affected by it.  During slavery, SOME blacks were able to thrive (e.g., Frederick Douglass).  Does that mean the other blacks were holding themselves back by their feeling of victimhood?  I would suggest that it was an isolated example of a rarely gifted person overcoming tremendous odds to succeed.  It shouldn't be the case that blacks must be exceptional just to achieve what average whites achieve.  And sadly, that is largely the case in America.  According to this 2014 Georgetown study, a black person with a Master's earns slightly LESS than a white person with a bachelor's degree.  And whites with bachelor's degrees outran every other similarly educated racial groups (e.g., Latinos, Asians, etc.).  That can't be just a coincidence.  There certainly seems to be SOME advantage to being white in America.

 

My point is not to imply that blacks should not be affected by racism, but rather to suggest that focusing on overcoming racial inferiority would be far more effective than fighting to change the unconscious racial superiority that whites might have.  Unlike the slaves of the past, the blacks of today are legally equal to whites, while this may not solve all of the problems of racism, it does give them more fertile ground to grow in.  

 

Looking at that study it actually says that Asians are an exception:

 

Wage disparities also are visible when lifetime earnings are examined on the basis of race or ethnicity. Historically, non-Hispanic Whites (hereafter, Whites) have had higher earnings than those of other races/ethnicities. There is now an exception, though, because Asians — especially highly-educated Asians — earn wages comparable to Whites. 

 

 

Why is that?  This to me suggests that it may not be white supremacy that is holding other races back as much as it is engrained cultural beliefs and practices and self-perceptions.  They earn more because they believe that they are worth more.  That is ultimately what it boils down to I think.  If whites make more money than other races, I suspect that it is because they believe that they are worth more, not as a race, but as individuals.  The confident white guy who believes that he is worth 80K is going to earn more than the insecure white guy who thinks he is only worth 50K, even though they have the same college degrees.  The white kid from the rich daddy will probably earn more in the same job as the white kid from the poor daddy.  Is it possible that those types of self-inflicting internal issues are being blamed on racism much of the time?  Like poverty, these could be generational perceptions that are difficult to break.  Coming from a history of slavery, I could easily see how these generational perceptions might have been passed down even to the present day. 

 

I am not implying that the discrepancies in wages are not in part due to racism, but I suspect there is something bigger and badder at play here.  How hard is it to find out what certain careers pay?  If you are offered less than what you know the job is worth, don't take it, or sue for discrimination if you know that white people are getting paid more for the same work and education level.  Perhaps white people are more successful in business because of their perception of money.  People who are used to not having it, treat it much differently.  There are are million variables that might explain the discrepancies. 

 

While the self-worth of blacks may be harmed by the perceived racial superiority of whites (both from black and white perceptions), self-worth will not magically appear once racial superiority is eradicated either.  That is why I think it is the wrong approach and a losing battle to try and get white people to change in order for black people to be equally successful.  Give a poor white kid lottery winnings and he will lose it all in no time.  I believe that these same limiting-beliefs and self-perceptions that exist in poor people exist in many black communities.  These restrictive self perceptions are passed on from generation to generation.  It is the law of attraction being fulfilled in their lives.  

 

In summary, I think it is a losing battle to focus on changing the unconscious racial superiority that might exist in America.  For one, it is in their subconscious mind so they might not even acknowledge that it exists to address the issue in the first place.  Second, there is no legislation which can be passed to force a person to change his subconscious mind, again, legally we are already equal.  If Asians can earn as much as white people, why not black people? 

 

I believe that the solution for black people is the same solution for poor people - change your self perception instead of trying to change the rich guy. Easier said than done, but I do believe that is the best answer. The lottery has proven that giving more money to the poor will not solve their financial woes.  In other words, the self-perceptions, familial and cultural practices of the poor guy are probably more to blame for being poor than the rich guy is for "keeping" him poor. 

Edited March 14, 2015 by pogi

[why me]

Wow! And wow! So one incident in one McDonald's informs your entire understanding of the situation for 36 MILLION black people in America? And therefore, the entire community is in desperate need of the saving grace of white Mormons? Where would anyone get the idea of racism within this Church?

 

The problem is that it was not an isolated incident but quite a usual one in that McDonalds according to press reports from what the workers there have said. Also, we have another problem: flash mob robbery, which are not isolated incidents.

The black community is not in favor of violent attacks in McDonalds anymore than the white community is in favor of rampant drunkenness and sexual excess as you might find among white young people on spring break. This is an isolated incident that is extremely disturbing, but how does it become representative of the moral state of an entire race of people? But the continued desire to judge all (or most) black people by the worst actions of a few is the reason why we still have work to do on the racism front.

 

Again it was not an isolated incident, especially at that McDonalds. Again we have had a series of flash mob robbies which have usually involved black youth:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pOXyl_9l2U

 

 

The black community needs to be proactive in fighting against such behavior. Interestingly, in New York, both the mayor and al sharpton have been silent about what happened in the McDonalds. Why? However, they have been very vocal in other circumstances involving the black community.

 

Now, as for your constant refrain that black people would be better off if we were Mormon, I tend to agree with you. Yet that will not likely happen until the Church makes the first move to cure that divide that IT created. When you tell people that they are unworthy, cursed and undeserving of the full blessings from the Lord, you must do more than stop saying such things to make things right. Contrary to Elder Ballard's claim that apologies aren't "scriptural," a sense of decency would seem to engender an apology. That is what most of us do when we hurt others with our words. And when our words (their theories behind the ban), turn out to be wrong, we say, "I'm sorry for unfairly maligning your valiance in the pre-existence and teaching anyone who would listen that God has cursed you. Will you forgive me?"

 

To my knowledge black people are worthy to receive all the priesthood blessings that any other race can receive. Also, the church is growing in Africa and doing wonders for the population there. Why overlook it? I have always forgiven you!

And if you have experienced "godly-sorrow" for the pain you have caused, you might even say, "We'd like to make it up to you." Even if in only small ways, like, say, allowing black saints who are so inclined to express their devotion to diety through ... gasp ... hand-clapping. Or pick something even less "offensive" than hand-clapping. But to treat blacks as second class citizens for more than s century and then simply say, "OK, God is now fine with you," isn't going to cut it. Nor should it. If I spent the last 20 years calling my wife "fat, stupid and lazy," do you think I would dissolve all of her justified resentment by simply saying, "God says you're okay now. You good?"

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that all black saints want to clap their hands in sacrament meeting? I think that black members should be missionaries and explain the gospel and let people decide for themselves whether they want to be a member or not. It is really that simple: It works in africa why not in america? We should have no excuses to do such missionary work. Are you now the spokesperson for potential black members?

And in no event does it help the situation by continuing the practice of vilifying an entire race by pointing to the conduct of two dozen idiot kids in a McDonald's.

 

The problem is that these two dozen  troubled teens are not isolated incidents. But as one of the MickyDs  worker said: This one was filmed.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5L0OOOD4

 

http://therightscoop.com/ferguson-looters-caught-on-camera-trying-to-burn-down-convenience-store-heroic-patron-puts-it-out/

 

As I said, the black community also needs to look inside out to discover why people of all races may feel a litte problematic toward the black community and their youth. Something is wrong. You need to be a missionary and help the black community find the gospel of jesus christ. People can save these children one baptism at a time. People learn behavior through example. Personally, I would not want to be a white store owner in a black community with such kids. Am I racist or just smart? And would you wish to be a store owner in the neighborhood where these incidents took place?

Edited March 14, 2015 by why me

[Tacenda]

You're going to find this shocking, but I largely agree with you; at least, in regards to black people buying into racial inferiority. I know that I have. As I mentioned to smac, I took Harvard's Implicit Assumption Test on race and it confirmed that I had a significant preference towards WHITES. If you've been told (explicitly and implicitly) for 47 years that whites are superior, the message is going to get through.

Just the other day my daughter in law told us she'd taken the same test in college. I think it made her aware of things she does without realizing it.

[Tacenda]

duplicate

Edited March 14, 2015 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

Can't you just show Avenue Q's "Everyone's a little bit racist" and call it a conference?

[mormonnewb]

 

Wow! And wow! So one incident in one McDonald's informs your entire understanding of the situation for 36 MILLION black people in America? And therefore, the entire community is in desperate need of the saving grace of white Mormons? Where would anyone get the idea of racism within this Church?

 

The problem is that it was not an isolated incident but quite a usual one in that McDonalds according to press reports from what the workers there have said. Also, we have another problem: flash mob robbery, which are not isolated incidents.

The black community is not in favor of violent attacks in McDonalds anymore than the white community is in favor of rampant drunkenness and sexual excess as you might find among white young people on spring break. This is an isolated incident that is extremely disturbing, but how does it become representative of the moral state of an entire race of people? But the continued desire to judge all (or most) black people by the worst actions of a few is the reason why we still have work to do on the racism front.

 

Again it was not an isolated incident, especially at that McDonalds. Again we have had a series of flash mob robbies which have usually involved black youth:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pOXyl_9l2U

 

 

The black community needs to be proactive in fighting against such behavior. Interestingly, in New York, both the mayor and al sharpton have been silent about what happened in the McDonalds. Why? However, they have been very vocal in other circumstances involving the black community.

 

Now, as for your constant refrain that black people would be better off if we were Mormon, I tend to agree with you. Yet that will not likely happen until the Church makes the first move to cure that divide that IT created. When you tell people that they are unworthy, cursed and undeserving of the full blessings from the Lord, you must do more than stop saying such things to make things right. Contrary to Elder Ballard's claim that apologies aren't "scriptural," a sense of decency would seem to engender an apology. That is what most of us do when we hurt others with our words. And when our words (their theories behind the ban), turn out to be wrong, we say, "I'm sorry for unfairly maligning your valiance in the pre-existence and teaching anyone who would listen that God has cursed you. Will you forgive me?"

 

To my knowledge black people are worthy to receive all the priesthood blessings that any other race can receive. Also, the church is growing in Africa and doing wonders for the population there. Why overlook it? I have always forgiven you!

And if you have experienced "godly-sorrow" for the pain you have caused, you might even say, "We'd like to make it up to you." Even if in only small ways, like, say, allowing black saints who are so inclined to express their devotion to diety through ... gasp ... hand-clapping. Or pick something even less "offensive" than hand-clapping. But to treat blacks as second class citizens for more than s century and then simply say, "OK, God is now fine with you," isn't going to cut it. Nor should it. If I spent the last 20 years calling my wife "fat, stupid and lazy," do you think I would dissolve all of her justified resentment by simply saying, "God says you're okay now. You good?"

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you saying that all black saints want to clap their hands in sacrament meeting? I think that black members should be missionaries and explain the gospel and let people decide for themselves whether they want to be a member or not. It is really that simple: It works in africa why not in america? We should have no excuses to do such missionary work. Are you now the spokesperson for potential black members?

And in no event does it help the situation by continuing the practice of vilifying an entire race by pointing to the conduct of two dozen idiot kids in a McDonald's.

 

The problem is that these two dozen  troubled teens are not isolated incidents. But as one of the MickyDs  worker said: This one was filmed.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrA5L0OOOD4

 

http://therightscoop.com/ferguson-looters-caught-on-camera-trying-to-burn-down-convenience-store-heroic-patron-puts-it-out/

 

As I said, the black community also needs to look inside out to discover why people of all races may feel a litte problematic toward the black community and their youth. Something is wrong. You need to be a missionary and help the black community find the gospel of jesus christ. People can save these children one baptism at a time. People learn behavior through example. Personally, I would not want to be a white store owner in a black community with such kids. Am I racist or just smart? And would you wish to be a store owner in the neighborhood where these incidents took place?

 

 

Your constant insistence that black acts of violence are common occurrences is, well, disturbing.  How could ANY business operate in the inner city if this type of violence was as common as you suggest?  Who would patronize an establishment where there was a high likelihood that he/she would be beset by a mob of young hooligans?

 

As for the half dozen or so videos you found, I can find 100 times that many videos of young white college kids getting drunk at spring break.  In fact, there was an entire industry built up around such videos.  However, I do not contend that this behavior is endemic of "white culture," and that YOU should be out trying to save a lost white nation.  Why?  Because I don't attribute the acts of a few as the standard for the entire group.  So why do you see individual acts of black hooliganism as representative of 36 MILLION black Americans?  Your videos show, what, 200-300 kids?  How is that representative of 36 MILLION?

 

It seems to me a convenient justification of your pre-existing reluctance to have anything to do with black Americans.  In two separate posts, you've mentioned how you feel justified in shying away from black youth.  I find it hard to believe that a half-dozen YouTube videos have turned you from someone who loves him some black people into someone who wants nothing to do with these young children of God.  You're using these isolated incidents (if they were as common as you say, they wouldn't make the news, would they?) as a pretext to justify your prejudice.  And then you suggest that the solution is to make sure that these young men are exposed to the same values that produced YOU?  And I used to think that I was funny.

 

But once again, I don't jump to the conclusion that you are representative of 15 million Mormons worldwide.  So I don't assume that all Mormons share your prejudices about young black people.

 

P.S.  To address your constant claim that "all the Africans are doing it (accepting the Gospel)," you continue to want to put people in buckets based on skin color.  The life experiences of a African-American from, say, Detroit, and an African from, say, Uganda are in no way similar.  A black American has about as much in common with a Ugandan as YOU do.  So what makes the Uganda brother join the Church is not necessarily going to be persuasive for the Detroit brother (and vice versa).  Furthermore, the Ugandan is less likely to have access to Internet articles about the priesthood ban.  Nor is the Ugandan likely to have parents and grandparents who remember quite vividly the Church's past policies on race.  All Gospel being equal, the Church should have much better missionary success in Africa than in America.  This isn't an issue of comparing apples to oranges.  It's comparing mountains to automobiles.

Edited March 14, 2015 by mormonnewb

[mormonnewb]

My point is not to imply that blacks should not be affected by racism, but rather to suggest that focusing on overcoming racial inferiority would be far more effective than fighting to change the unconscious racial superiority that whites might have.  Unlike the slaves of the past, the blacks of today are legally equal to whites, while this may not solve all of the problems of racism, it does give them more fertile ground to grow in.  

 

Looking at that study it actually says that Asians are an exception:

 

 

Why is that?  This to me suggests that it may not be white supremacy that is holding other races back as much as it is engrained cultural beliefs and practices and self-perceptions.  They earn more because they believe that they are worth more.  That is ultimately what it boils down to I think.  If whites make more money than other races, I suspect that it is because they believe that they are worth more, not as a race, but as individuals.  The confident white guy who believes that he is worth 80K is going to earn more than the insecure white guy who thinks he is only worth 50K, even though they have the same college degrees.  The white kid from the rich daddy will probably earn more in the same job as the white kid from the poor daddy.  Is it possible that those types of self-inflicting internal issues are being blamed on racism much of the time?  Like poverty, these could be generational perceptions that are difficult to break.  Coming from a history of slavery, I could easily see how these generational perceptions might have been passed down even to the present day. 

 

I am not implying that the discrepancies in wages are not in part due to racism, but I suspect there is something bigger and badder at play here.  How hard is it to find out what certain careers pay?  If you are offered less than what you know the job is worth, don't take it, or sue for discrimination if you know that white people are getting paid more for the same work and education level.  Perhaps white people are more successful in business because of their perception of money.  People who are used to not having it, treat it much differently.  There are are million variables that might explain the discrepancies. 

 

While the self-worth of blacks may be harmed by the perceived racial superiority of whites (both from black and white perceptions), self-worth will not magically appear once racial superiority is eradicated either.  That is why I think it is the wrong approach and a losing battle to try and get white people to change in order for black people to be equally successful.  Give a poor white kid lottery winnings and he will lose it all in no time.  I believe that these same limiting-beliefs and self-perceptions that exist in poor people exist in many black communities.  These restrictive self perceptions are passed on from generation to generation.  It is the law of attraction being fulfilled in their lives.  

 

In summary, I think it is a losing battle to focus on changing the unconscious racial superiority that might exist in America.  For one, it is in their subconscious mind so they might not even acknowledge that it exists to address the issue in the first place.  Second, there is no legislation which can be passed to force a person to change his subconscious mind, again, legally we are already equal.  If Asians can earn as much as white people, why not black people? 

 

I believe that the solution for black people is the same solution for poor people - change your self perception instead of trying to change the rich guy. Easier said than done, but I do believe that is the best answer. The lottery has proven that giving more money to the poor will not solve their financial woes.  In other words, the self-perceptions, familial and cultural practices of the poor guy are probably more to blame for being poor than the rich guy is for "keeping" him poor. 

 

 

You sound a lot like a young Malcolm X.  In essence, your argument is that white people aren't going to give up their prejudices anytime soon, so you need to just work on improving your own circumstances.

 

My two problems with that line of thinking (which, by the way, is still the predominant mindset of my brothers in the Nation of Islam) are:

 

1)  I have a little more faith in white people to do better.  Why?  Because in every generation, you have done better.  There were people in the 50s that made your same argument.  "These white people aren't going to change, so stop trying to integrate with them.  Let's build our own communities."  And before them, Marcus Garvey was so fed up with white people and so pessimistic that they could change that he tried to establish a Back to Africa movement.   However, Dr. King (and W.E.B. Du Bois before him) had faith in white people.  They thought that whites could accept blacks as their equals and indeed, in every generation, we come closer to that goal.  And I'm not convinced that whites can't continue to do even better (I have faith in you white folks).

 

2)  The solution you suggest is bound to leave many behind.  I suspect this to be true because this has been my lived experience.  My parents taught me that I could be anything that I wanted to be.  Sure, I might have to work harder than my white counterparts, but success was easily within my grasp.  And they were right.  And it wasn't even that hard because I was LUCKY.  My particular skill set just happened to be the one that our educational system values.  As a result, I was plucked from my failing local middle school and bused across town to a much better one (and later, I was bused to a good high school).  But that can't possibly be the solution for ALL inner city kids.  They can't ALL be bused to the suburbs.  And what about those students who aren't so lucky and instead possess a different set of skills (ones that don't instantly translate into academic "success")?  Are these precious children supposed to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps?  Or should their even less educated parents be expected to tutor them at night and shepherd them through a process that failed them as well?  As I see it, these are AMERICAN children and as Americans, we are ALL responsible for making sure that each child can reach his or her full potential.

 

However, I will grant that this isn't a one-way street.  Whites can't completely bridge the gaps through their own efforts alone.  We must do our part.  But the fact that white people can't do everything to bring about racial equality shouldn't stop them from doing SOMETHING.

Edited March 14, 2015 by mormonnewb

[sunstoned]

Yet, when did racism finally end as a "stain" on this country and worldwide?

70's.

 

That's not a coincidence.  People want to know why the ban existed, and why it finally ended when it did, it's right there in front of you.

God does nothing until man is ready for it.  That was the actual "curse".

 

You are so wrong. 

 

In the early 1860’s there were Quakers and other religious groups risking their lives running an underground railroad at about the same time Brigham Young was declaring that slavery was a “divine institution”.   In the 1960’s there were religious leaders walking arm in arm across a bridge in Selma and on to Washington at about the same time Ezra Taft Benson was publishing his tract “Civil Rights, Tool of Communist Deception” and Mark E. Peterson was preaching the curse of Cain doctrine.  More than a full decade after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was pasted, the church under pressure finally ended its intuitional racist policy.  Though it wasn't until the release of the “race and the priesthood” essay in 2013 that the church disavowed the racist theories that were used to justify the policy.

 

Sadly, the LDS church has a historical track record of bigoted teachings and practices that persisted well into the twentieth century.  

[why me]

Your constant insistence that black acts of violence are common occurrences is, well, disturbing.  How could ANY business operate in the inner city if this type of violence was as common as you suggest?  Who would patronize an establishment where there was a high likelihood that he/she would be beset by a mob of young hooligans?

 

My cousin works in Newark. It is rather common in that city. My point was simple. People need good family values. The best policy is for black youth to learn not to break the law because if they do,they will experience problems. And yes, much has to do with race but it also has to do with breaking the law.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/racial-disparities-criminal-justice_n_4045144.html

 

As for the half dozen or so videos you found, I can find 100 times that many videos of young white college kids getting drunk at spring break.  In fact, there was an entire industry built up around such videos.  However, I do not contend that this behavior is endemic of "white culture," and that YOU should be out trying to save a lost white nation.  Why?  Because I don't attribute the acts of a few as the standard for the entire group.  So why do you see individual acts of black hooliganism as representative of 36 MILLION black Americans?  Your videos show, what, 200-300 kids?  How is that representative of 36 MILLION?

 

Let me try this again. The issues in these videos need to be addressed by the black community. Kids get drunk at spring break but this doesn't mean that they will flash mob and rob a store. I taught my children not to drink alcohol because it has a risk to health and behavior. Fortunately they listened to me. Families regardless of color need the word of wisdom.  My point: go into the black community and give lectures to the youth about values etc. Help the community and see the faults and not just blame the white folk. Lets be honest, blacks experience racism at the hands of all races, including the african population who migrated from africa.

 

It seems to me a convenient justification of your pre-existing reluctance to have anything to do with black Americans.  In two separate posts, you've mentioned how you feel justified in shying away from black youth.  I find it hard to believe that a half-dozen YouTube videos have turned you from someone who loves him some black people into someone who wants nothing to do with these young children of God.  You're using these isolated incidents (if they were as common as you say, they wouldn't make the news, would they?) as a pretext to justify your prejudice.  And then you suggest that the solution is to make sure that these young men are exposed to the same values that produced YOU?  And I used to think that I was funny.

 

You assume that I have nothing to do with the black community. However, I do know the issues that affect the black community. And yes, I do not want to be walking alone in Newark at night...but then again neither do black people. It is dangerous. It is just playing it smart.

 

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Newark-New-Jersey.html

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/newark_homicides_up_64_percent.html

 

Check out the stats for newark by scrolling down the page. You can see that it is rather high when compared to the national average. So, maybe I am a little shy about walking in that city at night. Newark is in my Neighborhood.

 

But once again, I don't jump to the conclusion that you are representative of 15 million Mormons worldwide.  So I don't assume that all Mormons share your prejudices about young black people.

 

P.S.  To address your constant claim that "all the Africans are doing it (accepting the Gospel)," you continue to want to put people in buckets based on skin color.  The life experiences of a African-American from, say, Detroit, and an African from, say, Uganda are in no way similar.  A black American has about as much in common with a Ugandan as YOU do.  So what makes the Uganda brother join the Church is not necessarily going to be persuasive for the Detroit brother (and vice versa).  Furthermore, the Ugandan is less likely to have access to Internet articles about the priesthood ban.  Nor is the Ugandan likely to have parents and grandparents who remember quite vividly the Church's past policies on race.  All Gospel being equal, the Church should have much better missionary success in Africa than in America.  This isn't an issue of comparing apples to oranges.  It's comparing mountains to automobiles.

 

No, I want you to see the bigger picture and not just keep it a Black/white issue. It is time to use the sociological imagination to see the world differently and begin to address the issues, which are centered in poverty and family relationships among others. Thus, we had a million man march. You would be a great teacher. You have the gospel and you could do much for the black community. And that was my point. After all, you wanted to join the baptists because you wanted to help out your fellow blacks. So, why not do it as a mormon? Why make excuses about church history. You are a member and explain why you are a member. Or just talk about good living. I work with young people, most of my students are white. I spend some time speaking about capitalism as an ideology and what this ideology does to the human being: creates a process of commodification. I speak about race and conflict. But the root is within a commodified ideology. My solution: we need to begin to live in a more decommodified society. What is your solution?

 

http://scholar.google.fi/scholar_url?url=http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lyle_Scruggs/publication/249629373_Welfare-state_decommodification_in_18_OECD_countries_a_replication_and_revision/links/004635361190a60d26000000.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm034oAdDjHyMcdo2qxl8xxeT3erSA&nossl=1&oi=scholarr&ei=iCoEVe3WOIKfyAOKyYC4Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QgAMoADAA

 

I am not the author of the above article. But I have written about decommodification. Will you again give me platitudes and attempt to call me a racist in your response?

 

Edited March 14, 2015 by why me

[Kenngo1969]

Socrates is reported to have said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."  I think that's true.  One's capacity for growth and change is severely limited (at best) if one lacks the capacity or the inclination to engage in such self-reflection.  However, I think a truism can also be formed from looking at the opposite end of that spectrum by saying that "The overexamined life is not worth living, either." (One can be so prone ... and I know this from sad experience ... to engage in such examination that one simply doesn't live.)  

 

And I think a similar principle can be applied, not only to individual reflection, but also to interactions with others.  In no way do I wish to minimize the genuine pain of someone who has suffered the effects of racism or of belief/behavior born of other forms of prejudice.  On the other hand, sometimes, nothing is less purposefully given yet more easily taken than offense.  If I'm constantly hypervigilant against being offended, chances are very good that I will be (offended, that is).  And if I'm constantly hypervigilant against giving offense, chances are very good that I will (give offense, that is).

 

It's very difficult to have genuinely satisfying interactions with other people if someone is constantly wondering whether he should do [x] or whether he shouldn't do [y].  And it's doubly so if someone is sending him signals that tell him, "My [fill-in-characteristic-here] shouldn't/doesn't matter ... unless-and-until I say otherwise."  If I'm comfortable in my own skin (metaphorically speaking, and whatever characteristic that happens to embrace, whether it be race or something else, such as my disability), I don't need to allow other people to make me feel otherwise.  And we can get so wrapped up in particular characteristics sometimes that we forget to simply relate to each other as people.

 

But whaddo I know?  I'm just one of those clueless, insensitive white folks.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Kenngo1969