Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted February 12, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Out of John Dehlin's posted "confidential" conversation with his stake president has come his projection that within 30-40 years the Church will have reversed its position on homosexual behavior and, I would assume, pronounced the whole package OK including, presumably, same-sex "marriage" and attendant sealings in the temple. I've seen others put this 40-year time frame on such a projection. I don't know what there is particularly significant about that 40-year number; perhaps they think it will take that long for all the current Church leaders to die off, thus clearing the way for a new sheriff in town, as it were. So, I have this app on my mobile device that allows me to set a timer for pretty much any length that I choose. I have set it at 40 years, thus putting a time stamp on projections such as the above. I do this without any reasonable expectation that I will still be alive in 40 years. But on the outside chance that I am, the clock is running and I will see what the future brings. At any rate, I fully expect that with the passage of time, it will appear less and less likely to any reasonable mind that the Church is going to cave in on this matter, just as it has never done so on the matter of sex outside of marriage being wrong and sinful, even though we are some 40-45 years out now on the beginning of the "sexual revolution" of the 1960s. So come back in 2055, and if I'm still here and able to raise my decrepit, hundred-year-old hands to maneuver a keyboard, we will revisit this. Edited February 12, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 7
ksfisher Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 ...or perhaps after 40 years all those who want the church to change and "call evil good, and good evil and put darkness for light, and light for darkness" will have died off. 4
rongo Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I do this without any reasonable expectation that I will still be alive in 40 years.What makes you think your phone will still be functional (or around) in 40 years? Point taken, though. I think Dehlin's followers would just counter that he was just speaking as a man . . . 1
rockpond Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Out of John Dehlin's posted "confidential" conversation with his stake president has come his projection that within 30-40 years the Church will have reversed its position on homosexual behavior and, I would assume, pronounced the whole package OK including, presumably, same-sex "marriage" and attendant sealings in the temple. I've seen others put this 40-year time frame on such a projection. I don't know what there is particularly significant about that 40-year number; perhaps they think it will take that long for all the current Church leaders to die off, thus clearing the way for a new sheriff in town, as it were. So, I have this app on my mobile device that allows me to set a timer for pretty much any length that I choose. I have set it at 40 years, thus putting a time stamp on projections such as the above. I do this without any reasonable expectation that I will still be alive in 40 years. But on the outside chance that I am, the clock is running and I will see what the future brings. At any rate, I fully expect that with the passage of time, it will appear less and less likely to any reasonable mind that the Church is going to cave in on this matter, just as it has never done so on the matter of sex outside of marriage being wrong and sinful, even though we are some 40-45 years out now on the beginning of the "sexual revolution" of the 1960s. So come back in 2055, and if I'm still here and able to raise my decrepit, hundred-year-old hands to maneuver a keyboard, we will revisit this. As you know, I agree with the 30-40 year number. It's an estimate but is based on a few things... 24 years between beginning of U.S. civil rights movement (Brown v BOE) and OD2. 34 years between OD2 and Church beginning to disavow racist teachings (Professor Bott interview & fallout). 35 years between President Kimball's letter to the church indicating that women can pray in every meeting they attend and when it actually started happening. In 30-40 years, today's teenagers will be our Bishops, RS Presidents, and Stake Presidents. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Just telling you my thought behind the numbers. I hope you'll still be with us when you are 100. 2
Ahab Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 We'll see. We probably won't be living here as mortals then, but we'll still see.And I can already tell you the Church will never cave in, because it wouldn't be the Church then, and the Church will always be true even then. 1
KevinG Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I hope you'll still be with us when you are 100. ...only if he is alive or resurrected. Any other condition and it would really stink up the place. 2
JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I've seen others put this 40-year time frame on such a projection. I don't know what there is particularly significant about that 40-year number; perhaps they think it will take that long for all the current Church leaders to die off, thus clearing the way for a new sheriff in town, as it were. 40 years - goes back to House of Israel wandering in the wilderness 40 years waiting for the false traditions from Egypt to die off. Sometimes it's considered a "generation" but given how fast and lose the scriptures use the word generation who knows.
KevinG Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 40 years - goes back to House of Israel wandering in the wilderness 40 years waiting for the false traditions from Egypt to die off. Sometimes it's considered a "generation" but given how fast and lose the scriptures use the word generation who knows. Don't even get me started on the whole "7 days" thing...
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 As you know, I agree with the 30-40 year number. It's an estimate but is based on a few things... 24 years between beginning of U.S. civil rights movement (Brown v BOE) and OD2. 34 years between OD2 and Church beginning to disavow racist teachings (Professor Bott interview & fallout). 35 years between President Kimball's letter to the church indicating that women can pray in every meeting they attend and when it actually started happening. In 30-40 years, today's teenagers will be our Bishops, RS Presidents, and Stake Presidents. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Just telling you my thought behind the numbers. I hope you'll still be with us when you are 100.Oh I see, the two are exactly related. Gay marriage and civil rights for Blacks is exactly the same thing. Who knew?
Popular Post The Nehor Posted February 12, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 12, 2015 I prophesy that in 40 years no one will remember Dehlin's prophecy and few will remember Dehlin himself. 10
Scott Lloyd Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 What makes you think your phone will still be functional (or around) in 40 years? Point taken, though. I think Dehlin's followers would just counter that he was just speaking as a man . . . Good point. I used to put these time stamps on my old Palm TX, which died after Palm discontinued support for it and ultimately went out of business after a corporate takeover. Figuring out a way to migrate these things -- and remembering to do it -- is a challenge. Do you think there will be any Dehlin followers (or as I affectionately call them, Dehlinions) in 40 years?
Scott Lloyd Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 As you know, I agree with the 30-40 year number. It's an estimate but is based on a few things... 24 years between beginning of U.S. civil rights movement (Brown v BOE) and OD2. 34 years between OD2 and Church beginning to disavow racist teachings (Professor Bott interview & fallout). 35 years between President Kimball's letter to the church indicating that women can pray in every meeting they attend and when it actually started happening. In 30-40 years, today's teenagers will be our Bishops, RS Presidents, and Stake Presidents. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Just telling you my thought behind the numbers. I hope you'll still be with us when you are 100.I'm not sure I do.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) 40 years - goes back to House of Israel wandering in the wilderness 40 years waiting for the false traditions from Egypt to die off. Sometimes it's considered a "generation" but given how fast and lose the scriptures use the word generation who knows.I think a generation in the conventional sense is the length of time it typically takes a newborn to grow to adulthood and begin producing offspring (consider, for example, four generations of genealogy). Forty years is too long for that -- 25, maybe. In most instances, I understand the scriptural term generation to refer to the period of time of a gospel dispensation. Edited February 13, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted February 12, 2015 Author Posted February 12, 2015 I prophesy that in 40 years no one will remember Dehlin's prophecy and few will remember Dehlin himself.Hence my determination to keep it in remembrance until it can be definitively debunked.
rongo Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Do you think there will be any Dehlin followers (or as I affectionately call them, Dehlinions) in 40 years?No. Although Dehlin's followers are not really any different from William Godbe's, really. The names change, but self-styled progressives who want the Church to change in their image will always be with us. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 No. Although Dehlin's followers are not really any different from William Godbe's, really. The names change, but self-styled progressives who want the Church to change in their image will always be with us.Dehlinion/Godbeites perhaps?
rockpond Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Do you think there will be any Dehlin followers (or as I affectionately call them, Dehlinions) in 40 years?I know that calling it a "prophecy" and attributing it to Dehlin and "his followers" plays well for you, Scott. But I assume you realize that the prediction is not original/unique to Dehlin, right?
Scott Lloyd Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I know that calling it a "prophecy" and attributing it to Dehlin and "his followers" plays well for you, Scott. But I assume you realize that the prediction is not original/unique to Dehlin, right?Not unique, yes. Not original, I'm not sure about. He may or may not have been the first to come up with it. But thought I would try to spare you the infamy by not mentioning you in connection with it. Edited February 13, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
bdouglas Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I will now say, not only to our delegate to Congress but to the Elders who lead the body of the Church, that he thought that all the cats and kittens were led out of the bag when brother [Orson] Pratt went back last fall, and published the revelation concerning the plurality of wives; it was thought there was no other cat to let out. But allow me to tell you, Elders of Israel and delegates to Congress, you may expect an eternity of cats, and that have not yet escaped from the bag. Bless your souls, there is no end to them, for if there is not one thing, there will always be another. -- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol 1, June 19, 1853 It's very hard for me to imagine that same-sex marriages will ever be sanctioned by the church and performed in the temple. But still, I think we are in for some surprises down the road. As BY said, we "may expect an eternity of cats".
rockpond Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Not unique, yes. Not original, I'm not sure about. He may or may not have been the first to come up with it.But thought I would try to spare you the infamy by not mentioning you in connection with it.No way to know who originated the idea (if it was even a single person). Other than coming up with the podcasts, Dehlin has never really seemed, to me, to be an idea man. I would be proud to be mentioned in connection with the prediction. I have great faith in it.
Scott Lloyd Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) No way to know who originated the idea (if it was even a single person). Other than coming up with the podcasts, Dehlin has never really seemed, to me, to be an idea man.Agreed. Though I don't know that it takes any great brilliance to come up with a prediction that is destined to fail. I would be proud to be mentioned in connection with the prediction. I have great faith in it.More's the pity. Edited February 13, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
rockpond Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Agreed.Though I don't know that it takes any great brilliance to come with an prediction that is destined to fail.More's the pity.You're partially right... It doesn't really take much brilliance to come up with the prediction. What is a pity is how many members feel that the truthfulness of the church rests on its continue exclusion of homosexuals from the plan of happiness. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 You're partially right... It doesn't really take much brilliance to come up with the prediction. What is a pity is how many members feel that the truthfulness of the church rests on its continue exclusion of homosexuals from the plan of happiness.What is a pity is how many members feel that the truthfulness of the Church rests on [pick your least favorite commandment and fill in the blank]. Homosexuals have as much a shot at the plan of happiness as I do so long as they overcome their ungodly tendencies, as I have to. 3
rockpond Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) What is a pity is how many members feel that the truthfulness of the Church rests on [pick your least favorite commandment and fill in the blank].Homosexuals have as much a shot at the plan of happiness as I do so long as they overcome their ungodly tendencies, as I have to.Actually, I've never said that the truthfulness of the church rests on the doctrine surrounding homosexuality (if that's what you're referring to)... It's the "other side" who says we can't possibly witness a change in that regard and remain true. It is nice when the current understanding of the plan of happiness runs more parallel to one's own tendencies though, isn't it?However, there's that other issue of so many homosexuals not being permitted to stay in the church while enjoying a loving marital relationship. That part of the plan of happiness has to wait until after death when they are "blessed" to have their orientation change. Talk to me about how homosexuals have the same shot at the plan of happiness when the church manages to keep a significant number of them as active members of the church. Your creating a thread that mocks their pain is, frankly, disgusting to me. Reading this kind of commentary from members like you makes me want to leave, it pushes me closer to the door with each new page of posts. But I doubt you care. Just keep going, soon enough you can push enough of us out that you'll have your "false prophecy". I'm done... Gonna enjoy the long weekend with my family. You can have the last word. Edited February 13, 2015 by rockpond 4
cinepro Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I do this without any reasonable expectation that I will still be alive in 40 years. But on the outside chance that I am, the clock is running and I will see what the future brings. At any rate, I fully expect that with the passage of time, it will appear less and less likely to any reasonable mind that the Church is going to cave in on this matter, just as it has never done so on the matter of sex outside of marriage being wrong and sinful, even though we are some 40-45 years out now on the beginning of the "sexual revolution" of the 1960s. So come back in 2055, and if I'm still here and able to raise my decrepit, hundred-year-old hands to maneuver a keyboard, we will revisit this. As others have pointed out, the biggest shock for me would be if any current technology capable of tracking such a countdown were still in use 40 years from now. Your best bet would be to use every single site on this list and hope one of them is still around. Another option would be to write out the prediction and then take it to a Western Union office and mail it to yourself at an address that you are confident will be around in 40 years, and that will be able to find you. Then leave instructions for them to deliver it to "Scott Lloyd" at that address in 40 years. It should also be pointed out that the change Dehlin is predicting could happen sooner, which could also be considered a failure of his prediction, but we wouldn't have to wait 40 years to find out. Edited February 13, 2015 by cinepro 2
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