Ezra Taft Benson Talks About The Last Days

[CV75]

Thanks for collecting these. They're all very good examples of exactly the opposite of what I gave as pre-1830s examples.

We have BoM prophecies with names, dates, specific locations and even the actual words of individuals that will be spoken by those people before 1830.

All prophecies that you're ascribing to a post-1830s event have no names, no dates, no specific locations and no words.

Isn't the difference obvious?

LOL--"European," "America," and "American Revolution" are not mentioned by name in eh Book or Mormon either, but you included them on your list and I followed suit.

[Calm]

The prophecy most people think is about Columbus is nonspecific enough I have heard several Heartland and other nonMesoamerican proponents argue it is not him since he never landed in the US (or choose your theory) and is someone else.

 

Another Joseph who could have fulfilled the prophecy and we would be talking about him the same way…why is the prophecy so detailed that it mentioned a specific person?  

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1978/10/the-joseph-knight-family?lang=eng

 

OTOH, I have no problem with Joseph Smith's own assumptions causing him to add what he saw as clarification to Nephi's prophecies in the BoM as they were given him, whether intentionally or not, whether inspired by the Spirit to do so or his own understanding.

 

Also asking other FM members to find out how they would respond to your question.

Edited January 23, 2015 by calmoriah

[pogi]

Here is a really good overview of the prophecies of the D&C:

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/12/prophecies-and-promises-of-the-doctrine-and-covenants?lang=eng

 

There are very specific places, peoples, specific words which will be spoken, etc.  The only specific names prophesied in the BOM were Christ and Joseph.  Well, there are future prophecies about Christ and Joseph which have not yet been fulfilled, so you do have specific names.  

[bluebell]

 

 

 

Can you offer any prophecies in the Book of Mormon that are specific AND go beyond 1829?

 

Looks like others have already taken up this cause and since it doesn't matter to me personally (and since i've never collected such prophecies and have no desire to do so now) I'll bow out of the discussion.  

[canard78]

Here is a really good overview of the prophecies of the D&C:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/12/prophecies-and-promises-of-the-doctrine-and-covenants?lang=eng

There are very specific places, peoples, specific words which will be spoken, etc. The only specific names prophesied in the BOM were Christ and Joseph. Well, there are future prophecies about Christ and Joseph which have not yet been fulfilled, so you do have specific names.

I've read through the article and saw nothing of note. Can you give me something specific that I should consider to qualify for comparison to Lehi's prophecy about John the Baptist or Joseph Smith?

[canard78]

Looks like others have already taken up this cause and since it doesn't matter to me personally (and since i've never collected such prophecies and have no desire to do so now) I'll bow out of the discussion.

No worries. Enjoy your weekend.

[pogi]

I've read through the article and saw nothing of note. Can you give me something specific that I should consider to qualify for comparison to Lehi's prophecy about John the Baptist or Joseph Smith?

 

The prophecy of John lacked a name, though it did give specific words and places, the prophecy of Joseph lacked a surname, place, time, etc. Not really specific.  

 

Here is a prophecy which is specific about gathering place, where people will gather from, conditions, it even gives very specific words that will be spoken.  I think that this is way more clear than the prophecy of Joseph and equally as clear as the prophecy of John - though he was never named in the prophecy. 

 

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

 

 67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

 

 68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

 

 69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

 

 70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

 

 71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy

 

 

 The revelations of the second coming, resurrection, millennium, judgement are all very specific as well with names, words, places, happenings, etc.  The prophecies about the earth itself are also very specific. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by pogi

[carbon dioxide]

I'd be interested in examples of any non-BoM prophecy that comes anywhere close to the level of detail we find for the pre-1830 examples.

It would need to have some or all of the following features:

- Dates, several generations into the future (100s of years preferably)

- Named locations and roles for those locations

- Names of people and the words those people will speak or specific actions they will perform

Any takers?

Prophecy by its nature tends to be very vague before it is fulfilled.  If too many details get out, people can attempt to change the prophecy.  Like the Bible, most of the prophecies that I see in the Book of Mormon are ones that given and fulfilled in the time period the scriptures were written.  There are prophecies that exist in the Book of Mormon that pertain to our latter times but the real good ones are in the D&C and other prophecies given by prophets in our days.  There are many good ones.  D&C 87 is a great one.  Especially when one reads that in its true meaning that the civil war is just a small part of the prophecy.  The is the falling stars prophecy by Joseph Smith.  There is the Joseph Smith prophecy of war in the US that matches very closely on a number of levels by a vision that George Washington is alleged to have been given.   There is a prophecy by Wilford Woodruff that predicts World War 1 twenty years before it happened.  In fact if you read the prophecy from the time it was given to when world war 1 starts, Woodruff hits it within 4 days.  Many more exist. 

[cinepro]

There is a prophecy by Wilford Woodruff that predicts World War 1 twenty years before it happened.  In fact if you read the prophecy from the time it was given to when world war 1 starts, Woodruff hits it within 4 days.  Many more exist. 

 

Sounds interesting.  CFR on this?

[carbon dioxide]

Sounds interesting.  CFR on this?

This is what Wilford Woodruff said

 

"I have a vision of the night opened continually before my eyes, and can see the might judgments that are about to be poured out upon the world... God has held the angels of destruction for many years, lest they should reap down the wheat with the tares.  But I want to tell you now, that those angels have left the portals of heaven, and they stand over this people and this nation now,  and are hovering over the earth waiting to pour out the judgments...Great changes are at our doors.  The next twenty years will see mighty changes among the nations of the earth.  You will live to see these things." (Young Women's journal, Vol 5, No. 11)

 

The prophecy was given on June 24, 1894.  What other event in the 20th century is more important than World War 1?  If WW1 does not occur, there is no reason to believe that WW2 would occur.  Many other things that occurred in the 20th century many not have occurred.  Word War 1 was a great domino that caused led to other things occurring.  We see the effects of it today in the Middle East.  The Ottoman empire collapsed after WW1 and the many of the Middle Eastern nations were created as a result.  Truly mighty changes occurred within the time frame he said.  World War 1 began 20 years and 4 days after this statement was given on June 28, 1914.

[canard78]

The prophecy of John lacked a name, though it did give specific words and places, the prophecy of Joseph lacked a surname, place, time, etc. Not really specific.

Here is a prophecy which is specific about gathering place, where people will gather from, conditions, it even gives very specific words that will be spoken. I think that this is way more clear than the prophecy of Joseph and equally as clear as the prophecy of John - though he was never named in the prophecy.

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy

The revelations of the second coming, resurrection, millennium, judgement are all very specific as well with names, words, places, happenings, etc. The prophecies about the earth itself are also very specific.

Is that the best we've got in the D&C? Given none of that has actually happened then it's not very convincing as a comparison to level of specificity in the Book of Mormon.

[canard78]

The prophecy most people think is about Columbus is nonspecific enough I have heard several Heartland and other nonMesoamerican proponents argue it is not him since he never landed in the US (or choose your theory) and is someone else.

Another Joseph who could have fulfilled the prophecy and we would be talking about him the same way…why is the prophecy so detailed that it mentioned a specific person?

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1978/10/the-joseph-knight-family?lang=eng

OTOH, I have no problem with Joseph Smith's own assumptions causing him to add what he saw as clarification to Nephi's prophecies in the BoM as they were given him, whether intentionally or not, whether inspired by the Spirit to do so or his own understanding.

Also asking other FM members to find out how they would respond to your question.

Thanks, I'd be interested in their response.

The more I read the prophecies in the Book of Mormon and then compare them to prophecy from the OT and modern era, the more anachronistic they seem.

Perhaps anachronistic isn't the right word. Perhaps out of character is. Non-BoM prophets appear to have never delivered this level of accuracy and specificity in their prophecy.

Compare the messianic prophecy of Isaiah vs either Lehi or Samuel. Isaiah is beautiful passionate poetry but full of vagaries. Lehi gives names and dates. Samuel gives a time frame and a specific sign.

[Bobbieaware]

Is that the best we've got in the D&C? Given none of that has actually happened then it's not very convincing as a comparison to level of specificity in the Book of Mormon.

In Ether 8 there is a dark prophecy that a great, worldwide secret combination, set up by the devil to destroy the freedom of all the peoples of the world, would arise after the day of the day of the restoration of the gospel. In the October1988 session of General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson announced that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled, and that the prophesied global secret combination was in the process of gaining control over the the United States and the nations of the entire world. By this, President Benson was allowing those with ears to hear to know that the rapid moral decline of the modern world is not primarily a matter of happenstance, but is largely the result of a very sophisticated and highly organized conspiracy of designing men who either knowingly or unknowingly are under the influence of the adversary.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[canard78]

In Ether 8 there is a dark prophecy that a great, worldwide secret combination, set up by the devil to destroy the freedom of all the peoples of the world, would arise after the day of the day of the restoration of the gospel. In the October1988 session of General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson announced that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled, and that the prophesied global secret combination was in the process of gaining control over the the United States and the nations of the entire world. By this, those with ears to hear can know the rapid moral decline of the modern world is not primarily a matter of happenstance, but is largely the result of a very sophisticated and highly organized conspiracy of designing men who either knowingly or unknowingly are under the influence of the adversary.

 

Could you quote the specific passages of prophecy and claimed fulfillment of prophecy please. I'd be interested to see them both.

 

Out of interest... which global secret combination was he talking about (or were they too secret)? I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist and don't put much weight on the whole Illuminati thing.

[Bobbieaware]

Could you quote the specific passages of prophecy and claimed fulfillment of prophecy please. I'd be interested to see them both.

 

Out of interest... which global secret combination was he talking about (or were they too secret)? I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist and don't put much weight on the whole Illuminati thing.

Simply read Ether chapter 8. Then go to LDS,org and read President Benson's address titled "I Testify" (or do a Google search under the search terms "Ezra Taft Benson" "I Testify". The pertinent portion is in the last section of the address.

It's off to bed here, 20 miles outside of NYC...

[carbon dioxide]

Could you quote the specific passages of prophecy and claimed fulfillment of prophecy please. I'd be interested to see them both.

 

Out of interest... which global secret combination was he talking about (or were they too secret)? I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist and don't put much weight on the whole Illuminati thing.

It is called the "New World Order".  The Bilderberg group, the United Nations, ect. 

Edited January 24, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[canard78]

Prophecy by its nature tends to be very vague before it is fulfilled.  If too many details get out, people can attempt to change the prophecy.

Yes, you're right. All non-BoM prophecy is very vague. But the BoM gives specific dates, names, events. Some of them are not very vague at all. Which makes them seem all the more suspect. See earlier in the thread for examples.

 

Like the Bible, most of the prophecies that I see in the Book of Mormon are ones that given and fulfilled in the time period the scriptures were written.

But that's precisely the issue for the BoM. All of the specific prophecies were given and fulfilled before the book's publication in 1830. When Lehi gave his Messianic prophecy and restoration prophecy in 600BC the BoM wasn't in print yet and hadn't been consolidated by Mormon yet. Lehi made specific prophecies unlike anything his peers were producing (Jeremiah, for example).

 

There are prophecies that exist in the Book of Mormon that pertain to our latter times but the real good ones are in the D&C and other prophecies given by prophets in our days.  There are many good ones.  D&C 87 is a great one.  Especially when one reads that in its true meaning that the civil war is just a small part of the prophecy.  The is the falling stars prophecy by Joseph Smith.  There is the Joseph Smith prophecy of war in the US that matches very closely on a number of levels by a vision that George Washington is alleged to have been given.   There is a prophecy by Wilford Woodruff that predicts World War 1 twenty years before it happened.  In fact if you read the prophecy from the time it was given to when world war 1 starts, Woodruff hits it within 4 days.  Many more exist.

The introduction to Section 87 was updated in 2013 to reflect the context that section 87 was given in.

Josephsmithpapers has a useful historical context:

 

On Christmas Day, 25 December 1832, JS dictated this revelation warning of the outbreak of war across all nations, beginning in South Carolina. Remarking on the context of this revelation, a later JS history states: “Appearances of troubles among the nations, became more visible, this season, than they had previously done, since the church began her journey out of the wilderness.”1 The Painesville Telegraph of 21 December 1832 highlighted some of these problems. It contained an article titled “Revenge and Magnanimity. A Tale of the Cholera” about the worldwide cholera epidemic, as well as information about a plague in India that was killing 150 to 200 people a day.2 The newspaper also included extensive coverage of the passage of a resolution by a Nullification Convention held in November in South Carolina. This resolution declared the federal tariff acts of 1828 and 1832, which levied high duties against imports, “null and void” in the state. Many South Carolina residents believed the acts were passed solely to protect northern manufacturing at the expense of the South. Not only did South Carolinians claim the right to nullify the law, they also stated their willingness to “organize a separate Government” should the federal government try to enforce the tariffs in the state. The governor called for two thousand men to form a militia “for the defence of Charleston and its dependencies.”3 President Andrew Jackson responded quickly to this resolution, stating, according to the Telegraph, “that the laws and the Union must be maintained, at all events.”4 Because Painesville, Ohio, was only about ten miles from Kirtland, Ohio, it is probable that JS saw or heard about the articles in the 21 December Telegraph within a day or so. These developments troubled JS, who saw in them the threat of the “immediate dissolution” of the United States.5 Indeed, the 25 December revelation predicted that rebellion on the part of South Carolina would lead not only to civil war and war among nations but also to slave rebellions and an uprising of remnants of the house of Israel. This violence, combined with plague and other natural disasters, would ultimately lead to the “full end of all Nations.” Using millenarian language, the revelation cast such events as portents of the return of Jesus Christ to the earth.6

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/87

 

So yes, Joseph predicts that "wars a coming" but it was only really a repetition of and commentary on the concerns of the day.

[canard78]

This is what Wilford Woodruff said

 

"I have a vision of the night opened continually before my eyes, and can see the might judgments that are about to be poured out upon the world... God has held the angels of destruction for many years, lest they should reap down the wheat with the tares.  But I want to tell you now, that those angels have left the portals of heaven, and they stand over this people and this nation now,  and are hovering over the earth waiting to pour out the judgments...Great changes are at our doors.  The next twenty years will see mighty changes among the nations of the earth.  You will live to see these things." (Young Women's journal, Vol 5, No. 11)

 

The prophecy was given on June 24, 1894.  What other event in the 20th century is more important than World War 1?  If WW1 does not occur, there is no reason to believe that WW2 would occur.  Many other things that occurred in the 20th century many not have occurred.  Word War 1 was a great domino that caused led to other things occurring.  We see the effects of it today in the Middle East.  The Ottoman empire collapsed after WW1 and the many of the Middle Eastern nations were created as a result.  Truly mighty changes occurred within the time frame he said.  World War 1 began 20 years and 4 days after this statement was given on June 28, 1914.

 

And from that you get a prophecy that specifically predicts WW1?

 

I'm afraid I'm a little underwhelmed. It's a good warning, especially in the context of the turn of the 19th/20th century political turbulence... but it hardly compares to the specifics of the Book of Mormon.

[canard78]

Simply read Ether chapter 8. Then go to LDS,org and read President Benson's address titled "I Testify" (or do a Google search under the search terms "Ezra Taft Benson" "I Testify". The pertinent portion is in the last section of the address.

It's off to bed here, 20 miles outside of NYC...

 

Thanks. Got it:

 

So here's the Ether 8 verses:

 23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

 24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

 25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning

 

 

There's nothing specific in that prophecy that could pin it to the 1980s. In the middle-ages there were plenty of secret combinations supporting different factions and interests. Just read the history of the kings and queens of England to see examples of secret combinations and murderous combinations to get gain or overthrow nations. The story of the English princes in the tower is just one example of this. There are lots, lots more. I'm sure the same can be found in the corridors of Rome and many other nations.

 

Instead Moroni is simply describing the worst side of human nature: selfishness, jealousy, greed... the vices which lead people to forget the golden rule and do anything they can to get what they want, at any cost. There's nothing in those verses that pins it to the 1980s... other than President Benson choosing to do so. 

 

Having said that, President Benson doesn't even say that this is a fulfillment of prophecy. You said: "In the October1988 session of General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson announced that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled, and that the prophesied global secret combination was in the process of gaining control over the the United States and the nations of the entire world."

 

What he actually said was:

 

I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)

 

 

He didn't specifically mention Moroni once in the entire words of the talk. The reference is added in the publication but he does not "announce that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled."

 

He does however make a prophecy in his talk:

 

I testify that not many years hence the earth will be cleansed.

 

 

"Not many" - that's a nice specific time frame isn't it. The word "many" means "a large but indefinite number." So he's saying that the earth will be cleansed in "not-many" years. So that would need to be something that is not a large number of years and is also not an indefinite period of time. He said that about 26 years ago. Given his prophecy was entirely indefinite it becomes a bit weak as a prophecy doesn't it? Doesn't really compare to Lehi's specific 600 years.

 

It is called the "New World Order".  The Bilderberg group, the United Nations, ect. 

 

Ah... yes... the United Nations... famous being a "...secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries" and which "is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

 

The United Nations???!!! The organisation whose main aims are peacekeeping, maintaining human rights and providing economic development and humanitarian assistance to people in need is actually the secret combination prophesied by the Book of Mormon??

 

Just for the record: I'm not going to get pulled into further debate whether the UN is a secret combination (!!!) on this thread. Feel free to say your piece in reply and go down that tangent with someone else. 

 

I'm still sat waiting for a non-BoM prophecy that comes even close to what the BoM prophets could predict with unnerving accuracy about events before 1830. Not seen anything yet.

[Duncan]

And from that you get a prophecy that specifically predicts WW1?

 

I'm afraid I'm a little underwhelmed. It's a good warning, especially in the context of the turn of the 19th/20th century political turbulence... but it hardly compares to the specifics of the Book of Mormon.

 

 

I'm curious as to why you think the Nephi has to talk about things beyond 1830? I've always thought his vision on the Great and Spacious building and the mists of darkness and the iron Rod is spot on

Edited January 24, 2015 by Duncan

[canard78]

I'm curious as to why you think the Nephi has to talk about things beyond 1830? I've always thought his vision on the Great and Spacious building and the mists of darkness and the iron Rod is spot on

He doesn't have to but as Cinepro quite rightly points out, it would have been just as easy for him to give names, dates and events after 1830 as before. He didn't only have a vision up to 1830 and then a cloud of uncertainty.

Iron Rod and mists of darkness etc. spot on? In what specific way. Certainly it's a parable that many of us can relate to and has lots of useful application to life experiences... But it's not a specific prophecy compared to describing the actual words that a prophet will speak, 600 years into the future or the name of the mother of the promised Messiah.

[Bobbieaware]

Thanks. Got it:

So here's the Ether 8 verses:

There's nothing specific in that prophecy that could pin it to the 1980s. In the middle-ages there were plenty of secret combinations supporting different factions and interests. Just read the history of the kings and queens of England to see examples of secret combinations and murderous combinations to get gain or overthrow nations. The story of the English princes in the tower is just one example of this. There are lots, lots more. I'm sure the same can be found in the corridors of Rome and many other nations.

Instead Moroni is simply describing the worst side of human nature: selfishness, jealousy, greed... the vices which lead people to forget the golden rule and do anything they can to get what they want, at any cost. There's nothing in those verses that pins it to the 1980s... other than President Benson choosing to do so.

Having said that, President Benson doesn't even say that this is a fulfillment of prophecy. You said: "In the October1988 session of General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson announced that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled, and that the prophesied global secret combination was in the process of gaining control over the the United States and the nations of the entire world."

What he actually said was:

He didn't specifically mention Moroni once in the entire words of the talk. The reference is added in the publication but he does not "announce that Moroni's prophecy was fulfilled."

He does however make a prophecy in his talk:

"Not many" - that's a nice specific time frame isn't it. The word "many" means "a large but indefinite number." So he's saying that the earth will be cleansed in "not-many" years. So that would need to be something that is not a large number of years and is also not an indefinite period of time. He said that about 26 years ago. Given his prophecy was entirely indefinite it becomes a bit weak as a prophecy doesn't it? Doesn't really compare to Lehi's specific 600 years.

Ah... yes... the United Nations... famous being a "...secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries" and which "is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

The United Nations???!!! The organisation whose main aims are peacekeeping, maintaining human rights and providing economic development and humanitarian assistance to people in need is actually the secret combination prophesied by the Book of Mormon??

Just for the record: I'm not going to get pulled into further debate whether the UN is a secret combination (!!!) on this thread. Feel free to say your piece in reply and go down that tangent with someone else.

I'm still sat waiting for a non-BoM prophecy that comes even close to what the BoM prophets could predict with unnerving accuracy about events before 1830. Not seen anything yet.

Those familiar with President Benson's past statements on the very same subject had no doubt as to what he was talking about. It was obvious he was once again testifying -- this time not as an apostle, but as the President of the Church -- that the worldwide secret combination, prophesied by Moroni in a Ether 8, had come to pass in our day in fulfillment of the prophecy. The secret combination prophesied in Ether 8 is unique in that it's clear it was to come into existence after the restoration and would be worldwide in reach and s scope. Do you think it was an accident that it was President Benson himself who included the reference to Ether 8? This powerful prophetic pronouncement, made by a President of the Church, is a perfect example of how those who have ears to hear are able to receive, by personal revelation, critically important truths through the Lord's servants; while those who don"t have ears to hear (or don't want ears to hear) are left in the dark.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[pogi]

Is that the best we've got in the D&C? Given none of that has actually happened then it's not very convincing as a comparison to level of specificity in the Book of Mormon.

 

If you think about it, the events that have the greatest detail in prophecy in the BOM are the beginning of dispensations.  John and Christ and Joseph Smith.  These were respectively 600 years and around 2400 years after Lehi.  The other big one is the destruction of the Nephites.  It makes sense that all of the great detail in prophecy will be regarding the next big events - second coming, millennium, judgment, celstialization of the earth, etc.   Sure enough, we have them in great detail.  The Nephites did not have a prophecy calendar of current expected events to watch for, why should we?  Most of the events in the BOM were not prophesied and many hundreds of years would go by without any prophecy.  We shouldn't expect it to be different for us.  The fact is, we do have future revelation with great detail, because they (they are many) have not happened yet does not negate the fact that it was given in the same manner of detail that Lehi gave his prophecies which were relatively far in the future.

 

What kind of prophecies should we expect?  "A great prophet named Thomas will lower the age of missionaries from 19 to 18 for men and 21 to 19 for women."  There are no prophecies like that in the BOM either. 

 

The important things about this dispensation have been prophesied about and are being fulfilled - the gosepl will reach every nation, no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing, temples will dot the earth before the coming of the Lord (this was said by Brigham after being exiled to Utah and after experiencing all of the difficulties in building the SLC temple which took 40 years!).  We now have 170 temples either constructed or announced which dot the earth.  I suspect that we will get closer to the thousands as both Brigham and Hinckley state.   I wouldn't expect revelation on much more than this.  Revelation is happening like it always has.  I should say that prophetic prediction is happening like it always has (rarely), because prophecy and revelation is not always in prediction form.  We have tons of prophecy and revelation.  

Edited January 24, 2015 by pogi

[ERayR]

It is called the "New World Order".  The Bilderberg group, the United Nations, ect. 

 

It goes by many names.  Might as well call it Hydra.

[canard78]

Those familiar with President Benson's past statements on the very same subject had no doubt as to what he was talking about. It was obvious he was once again testifying -- this time not as an apostle, but as the President of the Church -- that the worldwide secret combination, prophesied by Moroni in a Ether 8, had come to pass in our day in fulfillment of the prophecy. The secret combination prophesied in Ether 8 is unique in that it's clear it was to come into existence after the restoration and would be worldwide in reach and s scope. Do you think it was an accident that it was President Benson himself who included the reference to Ether 8? This powerful prophetic pronouncement, made by a President of the Church, is a perfect example of how those who have ears to hear are able to receive, by personal revelation, critically important truths through the Lord's servants; while those who don"t have ears to hear (or don't want ears to hear) are left in the dark.

 

I've no problem with you viewing it that way Bobbie. I think the fact that you're having to put it in the context of "those who have ears to hear" shows how vague the prophecy really is.

 

Could anyone misunderstand "600 hundred years from now" as a specificity of a prophecy?