Freedom Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Off the top of my head 2 Tim 3:16. How could God guarantee it is ALL useful, if it was corrupted. Lets take a close look at this verse, and I think we will find it has a very different meaning than what you might thinkAll scripture is given by inspiration of God - so it is inspired by God, but not dictated or controlled by God. the movie 'Saving Private Ryan' is inspired by events from Word War 2 but it is still a work of fiction. Great entertainment, but not at all accurate. is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness - so it is profitable, but not necessary. Apples are profitable for your health but you can go your entire life without eating an apple and you would be just fine. Prostitution is profitable as a business, but this does not make it a particularly good business model. So we learn from the scriptures that scriptures are inspired and profitable. A rather weak endorsement.
Freedom Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 None of this has a simple answer. Questions for the ages. And I assume this is why LDS feel comfortable with their description of God as an exalted man. It makes him literally one of us so that we don't have to even ask a lot of these questions. I just don't see it in the Bible though. In fact I see the opposite answer a lot of times than LDS have arrived at. All I can do is choose with the tiny brain that God has given me. You are making another one of your false comparisons again. What does agency have to do with Gods omnipotence? What questions exactly are you referring to that we do not have to ask due to our understanding of God?
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm glad you agree he can do anything he wants. It is unbelievably difficult to convince people of even that sometimes I know of no LDS that claims that God is not omnipotent. That is part of our doctrine. Man OTOH is far from it. EVERY WORD of the Bible has gone through the less than omnipotent hand of man. We believe the Bible to be word of God as far as it is translated(by man) correctly.
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I know of no LDS that claims that God is not omnipotent. That is part of our doctrine. Man OTOH is far from it. EVERY WORD of the Bible has gone through the less than omnipotent hand of man. We believe the Bible to be word of God as far as it is translated(by man) correctly. Oh, I can think of a few limits to God's power...
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Oh, I can think of a few limits to God's power... That God is omnipotent is part of our doctrine.SEE https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.29?lang=eng But I agree that that isn't real useful for us mortals outside of a theological talking point.
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 That God is omnipotent is part of our doctrine.SEE https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.29?lang=eng But I agree that that isn't real useful for us mortals outside of a theological talking point. I think God is only omnipotent when it serves our purposes to describe him as such...
mass168 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 I think God is only omnipotent when it serves our purposes to describe him as such...Please expand on that thought..
Calm Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) This seems to be taking a very small view of God. Foreseeing and perfectly planning for all the little scribal changes etc over the years is certainly not the most impressive thing he has done, IMO.Actually it is a very large view of God because instead of turning men into puppets of his own desires, he is big enough to allow them to act according to their own choices. Someone who does not have to have his ego stoked by everyone around him doing what he wants them to do, but cares more about them becoming what they want to become and is willing to do everything needed to provide them the way including the ability to separate themselves completely from him even though this is not what he wants for them. That is very impressive to me. Edited January 20, 2015 by calmoriah 1
mass168 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Lets take a close look at this verse, and I think we will find it has a very different meaning than what you might thinkAll scripture is given by inspiration of God - so it is inspired by God, but not dictated or controlled by God. the movie 'Saving Private Ryan' is inspired by events from Word War 2 but it is still a work of fiction. Great entertainment, but not at all accurate. is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness - so it is profitable, but not necessary. Apples are profitable for your health but you can go your entire life without eating an apple and you would be just fine. Prostitution is profitable as a business, but this does not make it a particularly good business model. So we learn from the scriptures that scriptures are inspired and profitable. A rather weak endorsement. You just called the Bible fiction, good job. You listened to my point, but you didn't "listen." How could God inspire a verse that says, guaranteeing that all contained within these covers is profitable... IF he had no control over what man "did to it." Edited January 20, 2015 by mass168
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 You just called the Bible fiction, good job. You listened to my point, but you didn't "listen." How could God inspire a verse that says, guaranteeing that all contained within these covers is profitable... IF he had no control over what man "did to it." He didn't say that. You are bearing false witness. That Scripture says it is profitable it doesn't say inerrant. God inspires men. He doesn't control what they do.
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Please expand on that thought.. Well, for example there are a couple of scriptures that state if God did a certain act (broke a certain eternal law) that he would cease to be God.Presumably he wouldn't have the power to do that twice.
mass168 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 He didn't say that. You are bearing false witness. That Scripture says it is profitable it doesn't say inerrant. God inspires men. He doesn't control what they do.Ok maybe that was a little harsh excuse me. But he clearly compared it to "great entertainment, but not at all accurate" you can't deny that.
mfbukowski Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) This is ridiculous.I really am out. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Edited January 21, 2015 by mfbukowski 1
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Ok maybe that was a little harsh excuse me. But he clearly compared it to "great entertainment, but not at all accurate" you can't deny that. It was very harsh. It is one thing to disagree and quite another to be disagreeable. There are many ways to entertained that aren't all that funny. Christians have been fighting and killing other Christians over what the Bible says for almost two millennium now. Entertaining; yes, funny; no. Rather sad really. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. There is absolutely no reason to believe anything that isn't translated correctly. 1
Freedom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 You just called the Bible fiction, good job. You listened to my point, but you didn't "listen." How could God inspire a verse that says, guaranteeing that all contained within these covers is profitable... IF he had no control over what man "did to it."Oh grow up. You are among the most juvenile posters I have come across. You attach and attach, you actively set up straw man arguments, and you then completely change the text to support your untenable doctrine. Nowhere does it say that god guarantees anything. It says the complete opposite. There is a huge difference between saying apples are guaranteed to make you healthy and saying apples are profitable for your health. Being inspired and being stringently controlled are not, by any stretch of the imagination, synonymous. If you cannot see that it is because you are too closed minded and indoctrinated to see the light of truth. Good grief. 2
Freedom Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Ok maybe that was a little harsh excuse me. But he clearly compared it to "great entertainment, but not at all accurate" you can't deny that. yes and the old testament compares God to a chicken. Does that trouble you as well? Do you not know what an analogy is? Are you that profoundly uneducated that you cannot grasp metaphor? I did not compare it to entertainment, I compared it to another example of something that is inspired. I am trying to help you understand basic English by putting the same words in other contexts. This is how children learn syntax. Apparently you never went to elementary school. Inspired does not mean perfect. It simply means inspired. Michelangelo's David is inspired by the story of David but I doubt it accurately portrays the man. I doubt he wandered around nude and was 4.4 meters high and was pail white from head to toe. Do I need to give you more examples? How about a dictionary definition. Have you heard of dictionaries? to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers.to influence or impel:Competition inspired her to greater efforts.to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God. I can hopefully inspire you to learn basic English so that you will better understand the scriptures. I know my explanations are profitable, but just because I can inspire you with profitable knowledge, there is no guarantee that you will fully embrace this because, in the end, something that is profitable and inspiring does not guarantee those being inspired will do anything about it.
mass168 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 yes and the old testament compares God to a chicken. Does that trouble you as well? Do you not know what an analogy is? Are you that profoundly uneducated that you cannot grasp metaphor? I did not compare it to entertainment, I compared it to another example of something that is inspired. I am trying to help you understand basic English by putting the same words in other contexts. This is how children learn syntax. Apparently you never went to elementary school. Inspired does not mean perfect. It simply means inspired. Michelangelo's David is inspired by the story of David but I doubt it accurately portrays the man. I doubt he wandered around nude and was 4.4 meters high and was pail white from head to toe. Do I need to give you more examples? How about a dictionary definition. Have you heard of dictionaries? to fill with an animating, quickening, or exalting influence: His courage inspired his followers.to influence or impel:Competition inspired her to greater efforts.to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God. I can hopefully inspire you to learn basic English so that you will better understand the scriptures. I know my explanations are profitable, but just because I can inspire you with profitable knowledge, there is no guarantee that you will fully embrace this because, in the end, something that is profitable and inspiring does not guarantee those being inspired will do anything about it. Alrighty... I'm sorry I read too much into what you said, I guess it was lost in translation. Sincere apologies if I offended. All scripture is given by inspiration of God - so it is inspired by God, but not dictated or controlled by God. the movie 'Saving Private Ryan' is inspired by events from Word War 2 but it is still a work of fiction. Great entertainment, but not at all accurate. All scripture is given by inspiration of God - so it is inspired by God, but not dictated or controlled by God. the movie 'Saving Private Ryan' is inspired by events from Word War 2 but it is still a work of fiction. Great entertainment, but not at all accurate. I understand teaching by analogy, but I seriously don't know what I'm supposed to get out of this one? If that is your belief by faith that scripture is inspired in a similar manner as a film, well then that is a big agree to disagree. It just came across as so strange to me that I wasn't even totally sure you were serious.
Avatar4321 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 We are back to the Holy Spirit can't remember reveal more truth.
mass168 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 Oh grow up. You are among the most juvenile posters I have come across. You attach and attach, you actively set up straw man arguments, and you then completely change the text to support your untenable doctrine. Nowhere does it say that god guarantees anything. It says the complete opposite. There is a huge difference between saying apples are guaranteed to make you healthy and saying apples are profitable for your health. Being inspired and being stringently controlled are not, by any stretch of the imagination, synonymous. If you cannot see that it is because you are too closed minded and indoctrinated to see the light of truth. Good grief. Do you really need God to write after every teaching, "I guarantee this?" You must not be very firm in any of your doctrinal beliefs if you require that.
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Well, for example there are a couple of scriptures that state if God did a certain act (broke a certain eternal law) that he would cease to be God.Presumably he wouldn't have the power to do that twice. Why do we assume this is a factual definition of God's capabilities and not poetic hyperbole. Oh right..... Skousen!!!!!! 1
Recommended Posts