Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Abraham's Stones


Recommended Posts

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
(Luke 3: 8) 

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
(Mark 3:9) 


292qpac.jpg


so these stones

are there souls of spirit children in them just waiting to be born? 
is every rock in my garden an unborn spirit child of the Father? should i be more careful about kicking them and tossing them into a field? 
or is the Almighty One able to create a new creature? 

Link to comment

 

are there souls of spirit children in them just waiting to be born? 

is every rock in my garden an unborn spirit child of the Father? should i be more careful about kicking them and tossing them into a field? 

or is the Almighty One able to create a new creature? 

what do you believe?

Link to comment

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.(Luke 3: 8) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:

for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.(Mark 3:9) 292qpac.jpgso these stones

are there souls of spirit children in them just waiting to be born? 

is every rock in my garden an unborn spirit child of the Father? should i be more careful about kicking them and tossing them into a field? 

or is the Almighty One able to create a new creature? 

Uh...no. Rocks are not "spirit children"...the scripture was trying to make a point. So "for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return", means we should never clean? I think you are being too literal with the scriptures. Also listing scriptures as threads with no commentary. Just saying, this is usually frowned upon. Your choice though...God bless.
Link to comment

Joseph Smith seemed to believe it referred to the adoption of Gentiles into the house of Israel (TPJS, p. 319). But it could Just mean that if God wanted to add more people to His kingdom, He was powerful enough to make them from the stones.

Link to comment

Look at the context of Luke 3

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

He was teaching that mere geneology will not do anyone any good - each individual is responsible to bring forth good works

Edited by Flyonthewall
Link to comment

Look at the context of Luke 3

7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

He was teaching that mere geneology will not do anyone any good - each individual is responsible to bring forth good works

i understand that the major premise of His discussion here was not teaching about making children of Abraham from stones. 

and implied is that human, physical genealogy is not the descendancy that the inheritance of the promise is in regard too (have read Romans).

the prophets also wrote of Him being found by people that did not seek Him, and the Gentiles becoming heirs through adoption. 

but He literally said that God is able to raise children of Abraham from stones. 

the fact that He uses this as an illustration does not diminish the truth and power of what He said.

did He lie? 

so i am asking, how does the (i will take it as) fact that sons and daughters of Abraham could now be raised up from rocks, apart from normal human reproduction, square with pre-mortal existence? 

is God 'god' enough to create from dust and gravel a new creation and breathe life into it, or is He limited by some number and characteristics of souls that pre-exist Him? 

is God, "God" ? are souls and sentient life also His creation? or beyond His power to create? if He made a son of Abraham from a pebble, did He make the soul too? or was the soul pre-existing? in the rock? in the loins of some human ancestor? in some heavenly realm? on some far-away planet? 

 

Link to comment

so i am asking, how does the (i will take it as) fact that sons and daughters of Abraham could now be raised up from rocks, apart from normal human reproduction, square with pre-mortal existence? 

 

The same way that Adam being created from the dust squares with pre-mortal existence.

Link to comment

The same way that Adam being created from the dust squares with pre-mortal existence.

& how is that exactly? 

if you were born under the curse of sin, being in Adam when when Adam sinned -- how about these stones? in Adam? 

Link to comment

..................................................

so i am asking, how does the (i will take it as) fact that sons and daughters of Abraham could now be raised up from rocks, apart from normal human reproduction, square with pre-mortal existence? 

is God 'god' enough to create from dust and gravel a new creation and breathe life into it, or is He limited by some number and characteristics of souls that pre-exist Him? 

is God, "God" ? are souls and sentient life also His creation? or beyond His power to create? if He made a son of Abraham from a pebble, did He make the soul too? or was the soul pre-existing? in the rock? in the loins of some human ancestor? in some heavenly realm? on some far-away planet? 

There are also two stones described as Urim & Thummim, which Abraham used to view the universe:

 

Book of Abraham 3:

And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones;
****
18 . . . if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
****
21 . . . all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
Link to comment

If you know anything at all about Mormonism then you would not ask the question, seems like you are just pulling some legs.

So far he has not demonstrated he knows much about the LDS faith.

Nor much inclination to learn unfortunately.

Edited by calmoriah
Link to comment

Are they serious questions, really?

yes. 

i see it is easier to mock and scorn once again than it is to think and answer, eh? 

learned behavior, i guess. hard to stay away from that vomit once you get a taste for it, i know. 

 

Link to comment

i understand that the major premise of His discussion here was not teaching about making children of Abraham from stones. 

and implied is that human, physical genealogy is not the descendancy that the inheritance of the promise is in regard too (have read Romans).

the prophets also wrote of Him being found by people that did not seek Him, and the Gentiles becoming heirs through adoption. 

but He literally said that God is able to raise children of Abraham from stones. 

the fact that He uses this as an illustration does not diminish the truth and power of what He said.

did He lie? 

so i am asking, how does the (i will take it as) fact that sons and daughters of Abraham could now be raised up from rocks, apart from normal human reproduction, square with pre-mortal existence? 

is God 'god' enough to create from dust and gravel a new creation and breathe life into it, or is He limited by some number and characteristics of souls that pre-exist Him? 

is God, "God" ? are souls and sentient life also His creation? or beyond His power to create? if He made a son of Abraham from a pebble, did He make the soul too? or was the soul pre-existing? in the rock? in the loins of some human ancestor? in some heavenly realm? on some far-away planet? 

 

This is absurd.

 

If God wants to use the molecules out of rocks to create bodies for the spirits he has created- so what???

 

The bible says that God made Adam from the "dust of the earth"- LITTLE rocks.

 

SO WHAT????   What is this supposed to prove??

Link to comment

 

There are also two stones described as Urim & Thummim, which Abraham used to view the universe:

 

Book of Abraham 3:

And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones;
****
18 . . . if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
****
21 . . . all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

 

Exactly- take the materials there and make an earth- and bodies.

 

I haven't a clue what this is supposed to show.

Link to comment

Why does anyone respond to this guy?

 

I only do to end the discussion and keep him from cluttering up the board.

Link to comment

I don't think intra believes in a pre-existence or a pre-pre-existence. If one believes in the 'poof' method of creation then Adam and all the children of Abraham were completely created, body and spirit, at once. He seems to believe that the scripture about raising the stones means that God could make bodies and spirits, ie 'souls' from the stones only. We, on the other hand, fully accept that God could make the physical bodies from the stones , but that the spirit bodies were already in existence and would need to be placed in said bodies in order for them to be the Children of Abraham. Some of us go one step further and believe that intelligences are as eternal as God and that God created spirit bodies for the intelligences to inhabit.

I'm not good at reading other peoples minds so it would be good if intra would express his own beliefs in this.

Link to comment

I don't think intra believes in a pre-existence or a pre-pre-existence. If one believes in the 'poof' method of creation then Adam and all the children of Abraham were completely created, body and spirit, at once. He seems to believe that the scripture about raising the stones means that God could make bodies and spirits, ie 'souls' from the stones only. We, on the other hand, fully accept that God could make the physical bodies from the stones , but that the spirit bodies were already in existence and would need to be placed in said bodies in order for them to be the Children of Abraham. Some of us go one step further and believe that intelligences are as eternal as God and that God created spirit bodies for the intelligences to inhabit.

I'm not good at reading other peoples minds so it would be good if intra would express his own beliefs in this.

He seems to not be able to state his beliefs.

 

He parrots the Bible and can't conceive that anyone else would understand it any way other than he does, whatever that is.

Link to comment

so... no one knows the answer to these questions i'm trying to ask you, but you have lots of ideas about how to defame my character? way to represent, boys. thanks. 

what's this intelligence Jesus talking about here in the stones? 
new? eternal? 
like us? different? how?
would sons of Abraham risen up from stones ~30AD have Adam's sin? 






 

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...