Is There A 4Th Kingdom Inbetween The Telestial And Outer Darkness?

[Rob Osborn]

What about the possibility that we do, in fact, progress through each state, but stop progressing when we have reached our limit.  Wouldn't this, then, be "damnation?"  In fact, isn't that what the millennium basically is - the "terrestrial time period?"

We are now in the telestial kingdom. The terrestrial kingdom is during the millennium. Damnation is the state of the condemned in hell, either temporarily or permanently.

[JLHPROF]

We are now in the telestial kingdom. The terrestrial kingdom is during the millennium. Damnation is the state of the condemned in hell, either temporarily or permanently.

 

You know Rob, I really am warming to this theory of yours.  It agrees with my beliefs in eternal progression. 

 

If only the scriptures weren't so clear that people will be resurrected as Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial glories...we don't get three resurrections.  There will be (at least) three levels of resurrected glory in the next life.

 

But the idea of people moving from Telestial to Terrestrial to Celestial is an idea I am definitely behind.

[JAHS]

The temple language is specific that we do in fact go from one kingdom, learning line upon line, precept upon precept, until we get to where we are prepared to enter into the next higher kingdom. It is the least understood doctrines in our church. The BoM prophets were in large part speaking on behalf of their own beliefs and not what is really truth. Latter day revelation teaches us that labors are performed in the spirit world and that spirits there do work to perfect themselves according to the laws and ordinances of the temple. This work is open to both those who never had the opportunity and those who died in their sins who rejected the prophets.

So the BoM prophets were teaching false doctrines?

The labors in the spirit world are indeed for all the spirits of the dead and even if they did get the chance to hear it in this life, they can eventually obtain exaltation if they repent. What you are talking about is before the resurrection happens. I am saying there can't be progression once we have been resurrected and have obtained the body and go to the kingdom we have been assigned to.

[Rob Osborn]

You know Rob, I really am warming to this theory of yours.  It agrees with my beliefs in eternal progression. 

 

If only the scriptures weren't so clear that people will be resurrected as Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial glories...we don't get three resurrections.  There will be (at least) three levels of resurrected glory in the next life.

 

But the idea of people moving from Telestial to Terrestrial to Celestial is an idea I am definitely behind.

I have wrestled with the scriptures on many occasion with this. I have found a way that makes sense of how it works. For instance- people resurrected up to this point have been resurrected with a telestial glory because that is the glory of the earth right now. But, this does not mean that is all the higher body they will receive because we are told that the bodies who enter into the terrestrial kingdom (the millennium) will have their bodies "quickened" to that glory. Then all of those telestial resurrected souls will then be made terrestrial. After further perfection, at the end of th emillennium, they will be "quickened" again and their bodies will attain unto celestial grade bodies.

[Rob Osborn]

So the BoM prophets were teaching false doctrines?

The labors in the spirit world are indeed for all the spirits of the dead and even if they did get the chance to hear it in this life, they can eventually obtain exaltation if they repent. What you are talking about is before the resurrection happens. I am saying there can't be progression once we have been resurrected and have obtained the body and go to the kingdom we have been assigned to.

This earth only has the telestial glory right now and those who have been resurrected can only be resrrected by the glory with which they are resurrected with. They will however be "quickened (brought up or given more life/glory) when the Christ comes to the earth at the beginning of the millennium. They will thus be quickened from telestial glory bodies to terrestrial glory bodies. Then they will get quickened again to celestial glory bodies when that glory comes to the earth with Fathers presence.

[stemelbow]

Calmoriah posted 17 hours ago:

"I need to a bit of reading"

One hour later, Calmoriah posted:

"After reading everything..."

Wholly schmollies. I've seen some speed readers at work before but I had no idea someone out there had that type of skill.

(:

[The Nehor]

The temple language is specific that we do in fact go from one kingdom, learning line upon line, precept upon precept, until we get to where we are prepared to enter into the next higher kingdom. It is the least understood doctrines in our church. The BoM prophets were in large part speaking on behalf of their own beliefs and not what is really truth. Latter day revelation teaches us that labors are performed in the spirit world and that spirits there do work to perfect themselves according to the laws and ordinances of the temple. This work is open to both those who never had the opportunity and those who died in their sins who rejected the prophets.

So the "most correct book on earth" got something that critical completely wrong?

[JLHPROF]

So the BoM prophets were teaching false doctrines?

The labors in the spirit world are indeed for all the spirits of the dead and even if they did get the chance to hear it in this life, they can eventually obtain exaltation if they repent. What you are talking about is before the resurrection happens. I am saying there can't be progression once we have been resurrected and have obtained the body and go to the kingdom we have been assigned to.

 

The Book of Mormon makes no mention of the three degrees of glory.

[The Nehor]

The Book of Mormon makes no mention of the three degrees of glory.

It speaks in extremes. When it is not talking about the Spirit World it mentions only what we call Outer Darkness and Celestial glory. If the Nephites knew of the degrees of glory it was likely a guarded teaching.

Edited December 15, 2014 by The Nehor

[JLHPROF]

It speaks in extremes. When it is not talking about the Spirit World it mentions only what we call Outer Darkness and Celestial glory. If the Nephites knew of the degrees of glory it was likely a guarded teaching.

Correct.  Which is why there is no prohibition in the BoM against progression from a Telestial to a Terrestrial to a Celestial level after the resurrection (as I believe) or prior to the final Celestialization of the earth (as Rob believes).

 

I just find no scriptural conclusiveness on the idea that once a person is resurrected as a Terrestrial being they are stuck forever living in a Terrestrial glory eternities without end with no hope of ever reaching a Celestial nature.  I just can't accept that and I don't find any scripture that says I need to.

[Ahab]

This earth only has the telestial glory right now and those who have been resurrected can only be resrrected by the glory with which they are resurrected with. They will however be "quickened (brought up or given more life/glory) when the Christ comes to the earth at the beginning of the millennium. They will thus be quickened from telestial glory bodies to terrestrial glory bodies. Then they will get quickened again to celestial glory bodies when that glory comes to the earth with Fathers presence.

Glory is intelligence, Rob. If you have a portion of Celestial glory/intelligence now, then when you are resurrected you will receive that same glory/intelligence and may then go on to attain a fulness of Celestial glory/intelligence unless you do something stupid and show that you have rejected Celestial glory/intelligence in favor of a lesser amount of glory/intelligence or no glory at all. The bodies we get will all be the same, as far as how they will look physically. The thing that will distinguish some from others is the degree or amount of intelligence/glory that each person has, with some having more than others and with some who will be just fine not having all they can get.

[Rob Osborn]

Glory is intelligence, Rob. If you have a portion of Celestial glory/intelligence now, then when you are resurrected you will receive that same glory/intelligence and may then go on to attain a fulness of Celestial glory/intelligence unless you do something stupid and show that you have rejected Celestial glory/intelligence in favor of a lesser amount of glory/intelligence or no glory at all. The bodies we get will all be the same, as far as how they will look physically. The thing that will distinguish some from others is the degree or amount of intelligence/glory that each person has, with some having more than others and with some who will be just fine not having all they can get.

This earth abides celestial law but will only be quickened to terrestrial glory when Christ comes. How do you explain that?

[Rob Osborn]

So the "most correct book on earth" got something that critical completely wrong?

It happens. There is no mention in the Book of Mormon regarding the work for the dead. Through latter day revelation we know that the work for the dead in getting them to repent and change is reality. If this life were truly the only shot we had at meriting celestial glory then pretty much everyone would fail. Let me ask- who really dies in a perfect state where every sin has been remitted for and every carnal lust and desire has been overcome? I think it is plenty safe to say that the work of salvation, which includes repentance and restitution continues long after this short earthly life.

[Ahab]

This earth abides celestial law but will only be quickened to terrestrial glory when Christ comes. How do you explain that?

When Christ comes not everybody who will remain here will have received or have prepared themselves for celestial glory/intelligence, so if our Lord were to make this planet the abode for only those of celestial glory that would rule out anyone who had not accepted that much glory/intelligence, which our Lord will not want to do at that point. Instead he will remove only those who have received less than terrrstrial glory/intelligence.

Oh think I see what you meant now, and that is right in a certain context. But we're not going to be resurrected multiple times, and when we are resurrected we're going to be resurrected with the same degree and amount of intelligence/glory that we will have already received a portion of, no more and no less. Like how Christ was resurrected with the same glory/intelligence that he had already received, and no less of the celestial glory/intelligence than he had already received and abided by.

[djones]

This Terrestrial kingdom contains 100 gallons of truth and knowledge (whereas the Celestial might contain a million gallons).  I can progress, gaining a gallon worth of truth and light every millennia of my existence.  Or maybe I'm slow and only gain 1/2 a gallon every millennia.  No matter how slow my progression is, if I am limited to any space/kingdom/container I will eventually achieve EVERYTHING there is to do at that level.  It could take billions of years, but eventually a progressing terrestrial being will have perfected themselves terrestrially AND done absolutely everything there is to do in a terrestial glory.  I am an eternal being with nothing to do for eternity.

 

Then I'm supposed to believe there is nothing else for them to do for the rest of their eternal existence.  I cannot accept that.

I do not know how those in the Terrestrial or Telestial would ever achieve exaltation (they would need to marry for instance) or what path their progression will take but I am not claiming any special knowledge on the how.  All I know for certain is that God did not create children with eternal existence to live in a finite kingdom.  If we are eternal, then there is a reason to exist eternally.

If we are to have an end to what we can achieve because bounds have been set, then there is no point in being eternal - we only need to exist long enough to achieve the limits of our location.

 

 

I disagree. You are assuming that there is a finite amount of knowledge to be gained in each kingdom. I believe it is perfectly possible to have eternal progression in the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms without ever progressing to another kingdom. Think about it. How big is the universe? It's unlimited. There is no end to it. The gods have been creating worlds without number forever.

 

So let's say after a billion years in the Telestial Kingdom you've learned all you can learn about that world. Well then God (Or someone ministering to you from the Terrestrial) says "Good job. Now for the next billion years I'd like to show you this other telestial world (assuming we can mingle with other worlds). There are billions of people to meet, billions of things to learn, places to see and visit, etc. etc. With each world that you visit and learn about you are progressing in knowledge, experience, and happiness. You're happier and smarter than the "new recruits" who just entered that kingdom.  And then you do it again and again and again. Always growing in knowledge and experience but always within that realm. To me that makes perfect sense.

 

Another analogy would be the animal kingdom. A dog can be the best darn dog it can be and it can keep getting better and better and better but it will NEVER become a man no matter how skilled it gets. I think that's how it will be in the next life. If you could progress from one kingdom to the next "eventually", then  what would be the point of repenting in this life? If that were true then there would be no urgency, no motivation to repent, and I believe it makes a mockery of the atonement. It's eat, drink, and be merry doctrine. It honestly sounds like the doctrine of the devil. Matches up perfectly with how he likes to roll.

Edited December 16, 2014 by djones

[JLHPROF]

I disagree. You are assuming that there is a finite amount of knowledge to be gained in each kingdom. I believe it is perfectly possible to have eternal progression in the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms without ever progressing to another kingdom. Think about it. How big is the universe? It's unlimited. There is no end to it. The gods have been creating worlds without number forever.

 

So let's say after a billion years in the Telestial Kingdom you've learned all you can learn about that world. Well then God (Or someone ministering to you from the Terrestrial) says "Good job. Now for the next billion years I'd like to show you this other telestial world (assuming we can mingle with other worlds). There are billions of people to meet, billions of things to learn, places to see and visit, etc. etc. With each world that you visit and learn about you are progressing in knowledge, experience, and happiness. You're happier and smarter than the "new recruits" who just entered that kingdom.  And then you do it again and again and again. Always growing in knowledge and experience but always within that realm. To me that makes perfect sense.

 

Another analogy would be the animal kingdom. A dog can be the best darn dog it can be and it can keep getting better and better and better but it will NEVER become a man no matter how skilled it gets. I think that's how it will be in the next life. If you could progress from one kingdom to the next "eventually", then  what would be the point of repenting in this life? If that were true then there would be no urgency, no motivation to repent, and I believe it makes a mockery of the atonement. It's eat, drink, and be merry doctrine. It honestly sounds like the doctrine of the devil. Matches up perfectly with how he likes to roll.

 

I see what you are saying, but there is a problem.

The 3 degrees are degrees of glory.  And what is the glory of God?  Intelligence.

The more intelligence you have the more glory you receive.  A man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge according to Joseph Smith.

The only difference between the Terrestrial and the Celestial is the amount of truth and knowledge we are willing to live up to.

If you live up to all the truth and light of the Terrestrial you can continue to repeat life within that kingdom, but just like the child in kindergarten, eventually you have too much knowledge and be forced to move to first grade.  As you gain knowledge and experience you gain truth/light and therefore glory.

 

If we believe that the Celestial has more glory than the Terrestrial it is because they have accepted more truth.  Simple as that.

 

Therefore there must be a dividing line of knowledge between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Once you have acquired sufficient truth and light in the Terrestrial you are ready for the Celestial.  You cannot keep learning the same Terrestrial truths over and over worlds without end.  Eventually you would progress enough in truth and light to move beyond the bound of terrestrial knowledge.

[SamIam]

I think there are more kingdoms than we realize, sure.  That being said, I also think that the Kingdoms are not "rewards" or "punishments" where we get to hang out and be happy.   We are told that people will be heartbroken when they realize the glory that they miss out on.  The idea that any kingdom (outside of the top degree of the celestial) will bring 100% happiness is naive.  Even those who choose a lesser glory may be more comfortable, but there will still be the knowledge of missed blessings.

The idea that a kingdom lower than telestial where people have no responsiblity (yes, I get it was a joke) shows a fundamental ignoring of the progressive nature between the kingdoms.

 

And of course, I've NEVER believed or agreed that the Kingdom a resurrected being is placed in is their final location of progression forever without end.  (Sorry Elder McConkie).  It's just not a true doctrine in my opinion.

 

Joseph Smith alluded to the same:

 

"From time to time... Joseph Smith alluded to this vision of the glories (D&C 76). He said, 'Paul ascended into the third heavens, and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob's ladder-the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial glories or kingdoms, where Paul saw and heard things which were not lawful for him to utter.'  But, he explained, 'Paul has seen the third heavens, and I more.'  On another occasion he said of himself, 'I know one who was caught up to the seventh heaven and saw and heard things not lawful for me to utter.'"  (Hyrum L. Andrus, Joseph Smith, the Man and the Seer [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1960], 112)

 

 

This is possible consistant with the Jewish theology that there are seven heavens or levels to be achieved:

 

 

The conception of a plurality of heavens was evidently familiar to the ancient Hebrews (see Deut. x. 14;I Kings xviii. 15; Ps. cxlviii. 4; comp. Ḥag. 12a); while rabbinical and Apocryphal literature speaks of seven or of ten heavens (seeJew. Encyc. i. 591, s.v. Angelology; Kautzsch, "Die Apokryphen und Pseudepigraphen des Alten Testaments," ii. 121; Charles, "Book of the Secrets of Enoch," 1896, pp. xxx. et seq.). In the third of the seven, or the seventh of the ten, heavens paradise was placed, and within it the treasures of life and of righteousness for the soul (Ḥag. 12b-13a; Slavonic Enoch, viii. 1; II Cor. xii. 2 et seq.; Matt. vii. 19-20; Ex. R. xxxi. 4).

(http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7440-heaven)

 

Edited December 16, 2014 by SamIam

[The Nehor]

There might be progression between kingdoms but I wouldn't gamble on it.

[JAHS]

I see what you are saying, but there is a problem.

The 3 degrees are degrees of glory.  And what is the glory of God?  Intelligence.

The more intelligence you have the more glory you receive.  A man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge according to Joseph Smith.

The only difference between the Terrestrial and the Celestial is the amount of truth and knowledge we are willing to live up to.

If you live up to all the truth and light of the Terrestrial you can continue to repeat life within that kingdom, but just like the child in kindergarten, eventually you have too much knowledge and be forced to move to first grade.  As you gain knowledge and experience you gain truth/light and therefore glory.

 

If we believe that the Celestial has more glory than the Terrestrial it is because they have accepted more truth.  Simple as that.

 

Therefore there must be a dividing line of knowledge between Terrestrial and Celestial.  Once you have acquired sufficient truth and light in the Terrestrial you are ready for the Celestial.  You cannot keep learning the same Terrestrial truths over and over worlds without end.  Eventually you would progress enough in truth and light to move beyond the bound of terrestrial knowledge.

It isn't just an accumulation of knowledge or the ability to live the commandments; it's mostly based on who we have made ourselves become by doing those things. 

 

Apostle Dallin H. Oaks said:

"From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become." (Dallin H. Oaks, “The Challenge to Become,” New Era, Aug. 2002, 12)

 

If we don't become the kind of person who can eventually abide a celestial world, we won't be going there. We become that person during this life. There is nothing really that supports the ideas you propose, only your "logical thinking" that brings you to this conclusion. As I and others have said before, there would be no reason for living this life if salvation is the way you see it.

[JLHPROF]

 

It isn't just an accumulation of knowledge or the ability to live the commandments; it's mostly based on who we have made ourselves become by doing those things. 

 

Apostle Dallin H. Oaks said:

"From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become." (Dallin H. Oaks, “The Challenge to Become,” New Era, Aug. 2002, 12)

 

If we don't become the kind of person who can eventually abide a celestial world, we won't be going there. We become that person during this life. There is nothing really that supports the ideas you propose, only your "logical thinking" that brings you to this conclusion. As I and others have said before, there would be no reason for living this life if salvation is the way you see it.

 

 

I have provided my scriptural, prophetic teachings, and reasoning.  Canard was nice enough to show other prophets and apostles agreed with me.  I think you can find all my beliefs in the teachings of Joseph and Brigham, at least allusions anyway.

In fact, everything I read leads me to the same conclusion.  When Joseph taught that it would be a long time after the resurrection that we achieve exaltation.  When we are taught that "eternal punishment" doesn't mean endless punishment.  When the infinite atonement can be applied backwards to those who came before and forwards to those who came after and those who have passed the veil, I won't be the one to say when it ends.

 

The idea that the person we become in this blink of a mortal existence is to be the limit of our eternity is horrendous.  We existed for eternities before we came here.  We will exist for eternities after we leave.  I don't accept that this 2 hours of God's time in mortality is the absolute end of our opportunity to choose our path.

[SamIam]

I have provided my scriptural, prophetic teachings, and reasoning.  Canard was nice enough to show other prophets and apostles agreed with me.  I think you can find all my beliefs in the teachings of Joseph and Brigham, at least allusions anyway.

In fact, everything I read leads me to the same conclusion.  When Joseph taught that it would be a long time after the resurrection that we achieve exaltation.  When we are taught that "eternal punishment" doesn't mean endless punishment.  When the infinite atonement can be applied backwards to those who came before and forwards to those who came after and those who have passed the veil, I won't be the one to say when it ends.

 

The idea that the person we become in this blink of a mortal existence is to be the limit of our eternity is horrendous.  We existed for eternities before we came here.  We will exist for eternities after we leave.  I don't accept that this 2 hours of God's time in mortality is the absolute end of our opportunity to choose our path.

 

By way of contemplation, I do believe we do have a precedent to consider that there is a relationship between which estate we are in and its manifest objectives.  Consider that in the spirit world of our preexistence, there were a set of criteria established that fundamentally worked in such a way as to exclude all who could not abide any of the laws of a physical tabernacle. Whatever the actual threshold was, it disallowed Satan and a third of the host of heaven entrance into the second estate which required a physical body to complete.  However at the same time, Cain was permitted to advance to a physical state because in some way he crossed the threshold that at least sustained his potential.  Whatever the fine line was, he crossed it.

 

This second estate also sorts the spirits of the preexistence. As we understand that the millennial period will only permit those of a least a terrestrial standard to continue, we can wonder if this portion of the second estate was to permit all of those who could only abide a telestial existence a chance to come to earth, acquire a body and hopefully improve upon their final kingdom.  For the most part it sifts out all of those so inclined to remain telestial and the terrestrial state to follow will not abide any telestial spirits to reside within the boundaries of the laws of that kingdom.  

 

Still within this second estate we know of at least one ordinance which may mark a threshold - baptism by authority.  It is entirely possible in my mind that if someone was willing to embrace just enough light for the moment of existence they required to be baptized and then fell away that these may have crossed a threshold that may permit a celestial assignment in the lower kingdoms.  A threshold so fine as to resemble something akin to what might have allowed such an opportunity for Cain to advance in the preexistence but he failed to build upon for a better reward. These who might attain these lower two levels from crossing this threshold most likely will have forsaken the additional ordinance of celestial marriage and thus will forever advance no further than to be servants of those of a higher reward.

 

It is implied that there is no roof on the advancement in the highest level of the celestial kingdom.  Again there is a threshold that must be crossed in order to attain this eternal opportunity.  If one is not married / sealed in a state of celestial marriage then the threshold is not met and there is no further attainment. So it appears possible, indeed probable by our theology that there are certain standards that must be reached in order to take advantage of eternal opportunities.  These thresholds are established to define all of the states possible for those in a mortal physical state.   Thus the intent of the second estate is to provide for the establishment of all three of the primary kingdoms based on the potentials that a mortal physical body can attain when quickened to an eternal body according to the laws of each individual kingdom.  If we see the next estate as a third estate we see there remains one group which we understand can now take a spiritual body, that of a resurrected body and spirit united and continue advancement in ways we have yet to grasp.  However the pattern is before us to consider possibilities. We have not mentioned sons of perditions and other conditions for brevities sake, but I thought to provide a short overview for your consideration.

 

What may seem a blink is adequate to at least provide for the continued eternal growth within a threshold which simply establishes the bottom level of required potential while allowing continued eternal growth within the boundaries of the light required to cause someone to seek out the threshold they were willing to accept. It all seems very orderly and consistent to me.  Thus this estate limits all of those spirits who occupy mortal tabernacles that only have potential for degrees of limited glory while providing an open end for the next estate for those who are not limited to continue in advancements of potential greater glory that embrace the eternal potentials of a perfect spiritual body which is the high end of the previous estate's potentials. 

 

 

My hope here is to marry concepts we are familiar with from scripture to the patterns we can extrapolate from the comparisons of actual scriptural events to intelligently speculate to a potentially viable possibility that fits at least in a somewhat elementary way to what we can see and observe from our LDS theology.

Edited December 16, 2014 by SamIam

[Rob Osborn]

I have spent a very long time thinking about all the little details of the plan of salvation and to my mind it only makes sense that the plan of salvation is the very plan that leads and teaches us how to become the very exact same kind of being that God himself is. Think about it- There never has been any law, decree, commandment or principle that God has given man from one dispensation to another that doesnt teach and lead man into godliness. Everyone of God's principles and laws are a step by step process that leads one naturally from one law of obedience directly into a higher law of obedience. They all tie in together like climbing the rungs of a ladder. You just dont set up to one rung and stop, no, you get to that rung and get secure there and then eventually look up to the next and grabahold and pull yourself up to the next. The entire plan of salvation is a series of small steps that leads one naturally back to God himelf. There isnt turnoffs or plateaus of stasis somewhere along the way where souls will find eternal happiness in some place other than godliness itself. This is the master wisdom and knowledge of the Father here at work. The scriptures talk about it being a slow steady process until we shine forth as the perfect day in the Kingdom of the Father.

Salvation from spiritual death itself requires a complete abandonment from sin where "all" of our sins are washed away. This is the great work of Christ that he shall and utterly will accomplish in the millennium. His job will be a perfection of the kingdom- the one flockof sheep that he saves and presents to the Father spotless. There will not be individuals in the end that are filthy in some degree that will be saved from hell. If one is even a slight bit filthy at that day they cannot and will not be saved and Satan will be their father.

It is for this very reason of logic that leads me to believe that although some will have more glory (light and truth) than other in the kingdom of our God at that day of judgment, we all will be saved with celestial glory into the Kingdom and continue to progress towards becoming gods ourselves, side by side with an eternal companion of our free choice, sealed by the powers of heaven for all eternity. This too brings up the solemn point that man is truly not saved until he is saved with their spouse as one unit thus fulfilling the sole reason of our creation- that the seeds will continue on in eternity.

As we are saved and approach the light, greater and greater, love fills our hearts and we too become "one" with the Father seeking to become just as He is and that greater happiness is enjoyed as we progress towards that light to become like Heavenly Father. We shall not reach a point upon that path where we shall have light sufficient and yet know that more light is to be achieved. Gods kingdom is not a kingdom of stasis. If it is not a kingdom of stasis then it must be a kingdom where we will continue to strive perfection. Anything less will be sin and laziness and against the will of the nature of our souls.

All these things work together- light cleaves to light and as such we who choose God will always gravitate towards the light until the perfect day and we become Gods ourselves.

24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day (D&C 50:24)

18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. (Proverbs 4:18)

[Rob Osborn]

Here is some interesting doctrine concerning progression- Here-

The Prophet Joseph Smith said, speaking of Paul’s comment about one who was caught up to the third kingdom (see 2 Corinthians 12:2), “Paul ascended into the third heavens, and he could understand the three principal rounds of Jacob’s ladder—the telestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial glories or kingdoms” (Teachings, pp. 304–5).

President Marion G. Romney explained why this vision of heaven was shown in the form of a ladder and why the name of the place where it happened was called Bethel:

“When Jacob traveled from Beersheba toward Haran, he had a dream in which he saw himself on the earth at the foot of a ladder that reached to heaven where the Lord stood above it. He beheld angels ascending and descending thereon, and Jacob realized that the covenants he made with the Lord there were the rungs on the ladder that he himself would have to climb in order to obtain the promised blessings—blessings that would entitle him to enter heaven and associate with the Lord." https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel/genesis-24-36-the-covenant-line-continues-with-isaac-and-jacob?lang=eng

Also here later in Joseph Smith;s life-

"When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave." https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

If we thus combine all three statements made and couple that with what we know about the temple endowment..And what exactly is the temple endowment?

Here-

" President Gordon B. Hinckley said that the temple “becomes a school of instruction in the sweet and sacred things of God. Here we have outlined the plan of a loving Father in behalf of His sons and daughters of all generations. Here we have sketched before us the odyssey of man’s eternal journey from premortal existence through this life to the life beyond. Great fundamental and basic truths are taught with clarity and simplicity well within the understanding of all who hear” (“The Salt Lake Temple,” Ensign, Mar. 1993, 5–6).

President Brigham Young taught that the temple ordinance called the endowment gives us instruction necessary for eternal life: “Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [1954], 416)." https://www.lds.org/manual/endowed-from-on-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual/lesson-1-the-temple-teaches-about-the-great-plan-of-salvation?lang=eng

Thus putting it all together we see that the temple endowment is the plan of salvation and that we climb the three principles rungs, progressing from the telestial kingdom to the terrestrial kingdom to the celestial kingdom. In each of these kingdoms we make covenants and learn how to become gods ourselves by progressing from one kingdom to another to another- having glory added upon glory added upon glory.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Rob Osborn

[The Nehor]

It is for this very reason of logic that leads me to believe that although some will have more glory (light and truth) than other in the kingdom of our God at that day of judgment, we all will be saved with celestial glory into the Kingdom and continue to progress towards becoming gods ourselves, side by side with an eternal companion of our free choice, sealed by the powers of heaven for all eternity. This too brings up the solemn point that man is truly not saved until he is saved with their spouse as one unit thus fulfilling the sole reason of our creation- that the seeds will continue on in eternity.

I find it odd that you insist on a literal reading of scripture for the flood of Noah but are willing to bend and break virtually every scripture about the afterlife for this pet theory. I mean this goes against the reported words of the Savior.

Just.....wow....

[Rob Osborn]

I find it odd that you insist on a literal reading of scripture for the flood of Noah but are willing to bend and break virtually every scripture about the afterlife for this pet theory. I mean this goes against the reported words of the Savior.

Just.....wow....

Which reported words are we speaking of? I wouldnt call it a pet theory. I see it more as putting all of the pieces together and trying to see the entire picture. Read about the parable of the wheat and the tares- https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/13?lang=eng#

In the end the wheat are gathered out from the tares and then the tares are burned. The wheat are the children of God while the tares are the children of the devil (sons of perdition). These are the words of Christ himself. In latter days we learn that all the wheat (everyone who is not a tare) get stored in the garners (holy temples) to receive celestial glory. Here-

65 Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be;

66 While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire. (D&C 101:65-66)

The entire endowment in the temple hinges off of making covenants as a couple. The rest can thus be put together with logic. There are no other people in the parable who are something besides either e "wheat" or a "tare". Where are all the wheat stored? In the holy temples with their names next to the ordinances performed by them or done by proxy for them in their behalf. And what do all the "wheat" receive? Eternal life in celestial glory. So who is left? Just the tares. And who are they? The children of the devil and they shall go into unquenchable fire. This is the second death reserved just for the devil and his angels.

Now, once we understand that then we can move on into the meaning of the endowment. The endowment centers upon a couple- man and women as husband and wife- King and Queen. As they thus become sealed to each other the covenants made in the endowment that everyone makes in order to be saved centers around their fidelity with each other and their being saved by and through each other.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Rob Osborn