Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Is There A 4Th Kingdom Inbetween The Telestial And Outer Darkness?

djones

By djones
in General Discussions

Recommended Posts

Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

I just can't quite get there. And it's an issue of mercy and time that prevents it.

For me it's all about intelligence, as I can easily see someone who tries his best to do what he feels and thinks is right while still not having or getting or accepting more intelligence on an issue, or many issues. Like how some can be good Catholics while not accepting the intelligence offered in Mormonism, or how some can be good Muslims without accepting the intelligence offered in Catholicism or Mormonism. Some are just stuck in traditions and their own way of seeing things, not receptive to more intelligence, even if someone were to tell them who is the Christ or if they were to hear someone else bear witness of him, not even accepting the assurances of the Holy Ghost as he speaks to their spirit personally. Not that all such are bad people, or not doing their best to follow what they believe is right or true. They're just not connecting the dots because of their own lack of intelligence and their own belief that they should not accept any thought from anybody unless they see by their own limited light what is right. I think of my own Dad, a minister in some other church, who flat out refuses to seriously consider Mormonism as anything but a sham, yet he still tries and is a good person doing his best with the limited light he accepts. I keep hoping and praying that someday he'll see MORE of the light, but if he never does, I know he won't be cast out as a son of perdition, at least not as long as he accepts Christ to the extent that he does. Not totally, but some. So he would be saved because of the terrestrial level of intelligence/glory that he has a portion of, resurrected to the same unless between now and his resurrection he accepts celestial level intelligence/glory, or regresses by rejecting the light that he has already accepted.
Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted (edited)

The SOP's will remain in outer darkness because they will refuse forever to repent.

AND because they refuse to accept/receive/pay attention to intelligent thoughts from intelligent people even when those intelligent people are flat out telling them that they should repent while explaining why they should.

Edited by Ahab
blooit Community Regular

blooit

Posted
Posted

The SOP's will remain in outer darkness because they will refuse forever to repent.

 

I don't know.  I keep hearing this phrase "refuse to repent" but perhaps it is because their chance to repent has passed.  Maybe that is the point of the veil and the entire mortal existence - to see what we do when our decisions are based on our internal (and eternal) nature.  Once the veil is lifted - perhaps our chance to prove ourselves has permanently passed.

 

I picture anything but celestial glory as damnation.  While it may be tolerable - I think that knowing we could have done better and not having done it (for eternity) will be the most nagging and permanent suffering of all.  Just mho.

1
JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted

Damnation is being condemned to hell.

 

Damnation is being damned, prevented from having eternal increase.

1
Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

Damnation is being damned, prevented from having eternal increase.

Damnation is defined in scripture as the state of the condemned in hell. If one is damned it means he is sentenced to hell yet to be carried out or is already in hell. Damnation is always associated with hell in scripture.

blooit Community Regular

blooit

Posted
Posted

Damnation is defined in scripture as the state of the condemned in hell. If one is damned it means he is sentenced to hell yet to be carried out or is already in hell. Damnation is always associated with hell in scripture.

 

I'm not sure it's that clear.  The very word - damnation - means to stop - to block - to restrict.

3
Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure it's that clear.  The very word - damnation - means to stop - to block - to restrict.

Somewhere after Joseph Smith's death the saints started using the word wrong. They started using "damnation" synonymously with "dam" and from that point its been really confusing. The word "dam" means-

: to provide or restrain with a dam <dam a river>

: to stop up : BLOCK <damming up their emotions>

But that is not the word in the scriptures. It is the word "damnation" which means-

: the state of being in hell as punishment after death : the act of DAMNING : the state of being DAMNED

If we look at the scriptures in every instance "damnation" or "damned" always means the state of the condemned in hell. It never means to stop or block as one would use the word "dam".

Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

Somewhere after Joseph Smith's death the saints started using the word wrong. They started using "damnation" synonymously with "dam" and from that point its been really confusing. The word "dam" means-

: to provide or restrain with a dam <dam a river>

: to stop up : BLOCK <damming up their emotions>

But that is not the word in the scriptures. It is the word "damnation" which means-

: the state of being in hell as punishment after death : the act of DAMNING : the state of being DAMNED

If we look at the scriptures in every instance "damnation" or "damned" always means the state of the condemned in hell. It never means to stop or block as one would use the word "dam".

It's the same idea, Rob. The word damnation has an "n" after the "dam" because otherwise it would be "damation" and that just wouldn't be proper English. Damnation is the state (or condition) of those who are dammed.
Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

It's the same idea, Rob. The word damnation has an "n" after the "dam" because otherwise it would be "damation" and that just wouldn't be proper English. Damnation is the state (or condition) of those who are dammed.

Well, you are wrong.

Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

Well I'll be damned. *rimshot*

I hope you won't be for very long, if you are.

And my point was that dammed/damned mean the same thing, although one of those spellings is not correct.

Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

I hope you won't be for very long, if you are.

And my point was that dammed/damned mean the same thing, although one of those spellings is not correct.

They are two totally different words with totally different meanings. They aren't even related.

blooit Community Regular

blooit

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just kind of assumed that dam and damn would trace back to similar origins - but I can't find anything that suggests that this is the case.  Interesting.

 

Here is something that was kind of fun to read through while looking into this:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/damn-damnation-damnable.html

 

according to the author:

"But generally these words refer to man as a sinner against God, judged guilty by Him, and liable to the just penalty of sin. They imply nothing further as to the nature of the penalty or the state of man undergoing it, nor as to its duration. Nor does the word 'eternal' (aion, aionios, often wrongly translated 'everlasting' in the King James Version) when added to them, determine the question of duration. Condemnation is an act in the moral universe, which cannot be determined under categories of time."

 

edit: As I read, I wondered if "eternal" would be better translated as "infinite" - as we know the atonement needed to be infinite and that if we do not repent, we must suffer - even as he did.

Edited by blooit
Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

They are two totally different words with totally different meanings. They aren't even related.

Denial. Ah, yes, I've heard it before. But it's still true even if you don't believe it.
Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

Denial. Ah, yes, I've heard it before. But it's still true even if you don't believe it.

If you could show somewhere in scripture where you are right then let us discuss. I await.

Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

If you could show somewhere in scripture where you are right then let us discuss. I await.

Like Joseph, I have the Holy Ghost to help me understand what is not written in the Bible and write other scriptures to help clarify the issues.

No need for discussion on this. Accept or reject.

Rob Osborn Grand Master

Rob Osborn

Posted
Posted

Like Joseph, I have the Holy Ghost to help me understand what is not written in the Bible and write other scriptures to help clarify the issues.

No need for discussion on this. Accept or reject.

It is important that we understand God's word correctly. Otherwise, we end up teaching false doctrines. Is our church guilty? Yes. Are other Christian churches guilty? Yes. In LDS teachings it is possible to be saved and yet damned at the same time. But Christ never taught that doctrine. Its not even found anywhere in scripture. Its just a simple case of misapplying definitions. Its important that we understand correctly Christ's teachings.

Ahab Grand Master

Ahab

Posted
Posted

It is important that we understand God's word correctly. Otherwise, we end up teaching false doctrines. Is our church guilty? Yes. Are other Christian churches guilty? Yes. In LDS teachings it is possible to be saved and yet damned at the same time. But Christ never taught that doctrine. Its not even found anywhere in scripture. Its just a simple case of misapplying definitions. Its important that we understand correctly Christ's teachings.

The word saved can and does refer to several degrees of salvation, not just the 100% saved in every way possible to be saved degree of salvation, so you need to understand and be able to think in those terms instead of thinking that every time the word salvation is used the prophet was thinking in terms of the 100% saved in every way degree of salvation.
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...