One Catholic Writer's Take On Kate Kelly

[Bart Burk]

Rachel Lu is a writer at the Federalist and Crisis magazine who I really enjoy.  Here is her take on Kate Kelly:

 

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/mormanism-theological-dissent

[strappinglad]

That nail got hit squarely. Good read.

[jwhitlock]

Interesting article - especially the comments at the end.

[ksfisher]

Very interesting views from someone who is an exmormon. She seems to have a clear understanding of some of the issues that have heretofore eludeded many current members of the church.

[why me]

I would love to see them discuss this article on the catholic apologetic site. They are so antimormon  that I don't know how they would handle such an article that is positive about the lds church from a now catholic former lds woman. She made some good points. And it does show that many catholics  do like the lds moral teaching and wish that their own church were the same based on the comments at the end of the article.

[3DOP]

I would love to see them discuss this article on the catholic apologetic site. They are so antimormon  that I don't know how they would handle such an article that is positive about the lds church from a now catholic former lds woman. She made some good points. And it does show that many catholics  do like the lds moral teaching and wish that their own church were the same based on the comments at the end of the article.

 

"Who am I to judge?"

[Calm]

Very interesting views from someone who is an exmormon. She seems to have a clear understanding of some of the issues that have heretofore eludeded many current members of the church.

As do many of the commentators. It was a very interesting read all around.

[Bart Burk]

"Who am I to judge?"

It is impossible to judge the heart of another person. I am sure there are members of both churches who are active, but less than believing members. It took me awhile to get the courage to finally leave the LDS Church for Catholicism. Edited August 24, 2014 by Bart Burk

[Bart Burk]

That nail got hit squarely. Good read.

She is an excellent conservative writer. Google Rachel Lu and you will find several articles at The Federalist and Crisis Magazine defending traditional values.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Bart Burk

[VideoGameJunkie]

Bart, that's interesting, I rarely hear about people leaving LDS for Catholicism.

[thesometimesaint]

Bart, that's interesting, I rarely hear about people leaving LDS for Catholicism.

 

It is pretty rare. Far more common is towards Agnosticism or Atheism.

[3DOP]

It is impossible to judge the heart of another person. I am sure there are members of both churches who are active, but less than believing members. It took me awhile to get the courage to finally leave the LDS Church for Catholicism.

 

Yes. The heart and its motives are hidden. Actions are not hidden, and subject to judgment. But perhaps the context and source of my quote is not sufficiently well known.

 

Regardless, I like the article. Thanks Bart Burk.

Edited August 24, 2014 by 3DOP

[Kenngo1969]

What people often fail to realize, I think, is that saying, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [or the Roman Catholic Church] is my spiritual home, but it needs to change [x]" fails to account for the ways that changing [x] might lead to the church becoming less their spiritual home.  With respect to Catholicism, that principle is very well illustrated in some of the comments that followed the opinion piece.  Even a perhaps-small, seemingly-insignificant change can have a profound, perhaps-unanticipated, perhaps (in some ways) undesirable impact on the religion.  Those who agitate for change, whether it be in Mormonism, in Roman Catholicism, or in some other religion, would do well to remember that.  My $0.02.

[mormonnewb]

What people often fail to realize, I think, is that saying, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [or the Roman Catholic Church] is my spiritual home, but it needs to change [x]" fails to account for the ways that changing [x] might lead to the church becoming less their spiritual home. With respect to Catholicism, that principle is very well illustrated in some of the comments that followed the opinion piece. Even a perhaps-small, seemingly-insignificant change can have a profound, perhaps-unanticipated, perhaps (in some ways) undesirable impact on the religion. Those who agitate for change, whether it be in Mormonism, in Roman Catholicism, or in some other religion, would do well to remember that. My $0.02.

That's a fair point. However, in this case, I think those of us pushing for OW are quite okay with a significant "remodeling" of our spiritual home

[3DOP]

What people often fail to realize, I think, is that saying, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [or the Roman Catholic Church] is my spiritual home, but it needs to change [x]" fails to account for the ways that changing [x] might lead to the church becoming less their spiritual home.  With respect to Catholicism, that principle is very well illustrated in some of the comments that followed the opinion piece.  Even a perhaps-small, seemingly-insignificant change can have a profound, perhaps-unanticipated, perhaps (in some ways) undesirable impact on the religion.  Those who agitate for change, whether it be in Mormonism, in Roman Catholicism, or in some other religion, would do well to remember that.  My $0.02.

 

I could not see how to read the comments. But I appreciate your own comment, Kenngo.

 

As for those who would "do well to remember", that they are making someone's spiritual home alien, I think they couldn't care less. I don't think they are concerned to retain continuity with something that is revered and beloved. I do not speak for the LDS, but as for those who have sought to change the Catholic Church, and have outwardly succeeded, they truly despise a Catholic spirituality that is compatible with the teachings of the pre-Vatican II popes. I understand if non-Catholics have missed it, but Pope Francis and his crowd have made clear enough who is their sole enemy, and it is traditional Catholics like me.

 

Do not be shocked at my candor Kenngo. I am not saying anything unheard of. Michaelangelo painted faces of popes burning in hell and Dante wrote explicitly about the damned souls of popes. I do not even say that Pope Francis is going to Hell. God save him. But he is a bad pope and he opposes us for nothing more than our unwillingness to follow him in his hopes to destroy all continuity with the Church as it was when our own parents were born. Two thousand years to build. A generation to tear apart.

Edited August 25, 2014 by 3DOP

[jwhitlock]

The Catholic comments on the thread mirrored your own, Rory. I was surprised at how strongly some of those comments were worded, by Catholics, condemning the way things currently are.

[Calm]

How broken hearted you all must be who feel this way.

[3DOP]

How broken hearted you all must be who feel this way.

 

It has been prophesied. We have been abundantly warned about all of this. The seer of Fatima, Sister Lucia, told us in the early part of the 20th Century about a "diabolical disorientation" that would soon appear to infect the Church. For the last few centuries prior to that one, other saints and prophets spoke vividly about our troubled times. Some still try to ignore it.

 

I think I mentioned that I was in a car wreck a little while ago. While all this violent noise and turbulence was going on, I felt utterly safe inside the cab as I rolled over with my seat belt securely fastened. The true faith will not and can not die. There can be violence and perturbation on the outside with perfect peace interiorly.

 

Who could be broken hearted that still has access to the Sacraments of Life? The morale of the soldier of Christ admittedly fluctuates. But as our day requires, so shall our strength be. We are not broken and we will not be. As Gideon raised the Sword of the Lord, with few against many, there will be some who are ever ready to march to victory as our Lady General, the Blessed Mother of Jesus Christ breaks the head of the serpent once and for all. No. Not broken hearted. Victory is promised, prophesied, and assured against every agent of change that would destroy the kingdom of God. You know what it says. "If God be for us..." Heh.

 

This is the kind of "triumphalism" that the modernists find so hateful. I don't imagine to be enjoying this victory alone. I trust that it will be so entirely obvious, that my best Mormons friends will be inclined to ride along. In any case, I see Catholics attached to modernity and Mormons drawn to ancient truth. For those good reasons, I have hope that God in His mercy can be abundantly gracious to many, Mormon, Catholic, or other, who in important respects are now very different from me, and yet in others, very similar to Catholic Tradition in our poor dark century.

 

Be assured, there are no broken hearts here, cal.

 

3DOP 

Edited August 25, 2014 by 3DOP

[Calm]

That is beautiful faith, Rory.

[mfbukowski]

That is beautiful faith, Rory.

And one that I heartily endorse. But don't tell Rory. I can't set a precedent by actually agreeing with him.

[Storm Rider]

Rachel Lu is a writer at the Federalist and Crisis magazine who I really enjoy.  Here is her take on Kate Kelly:

 

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/mormanism-theological-dissent

Hello Bart,

 

Thanks for giving the heads up on this article.  The comments were also interesting to read.  I continue to believe there is only one Body of Christ and all that seek after him belong to it.  There will certainly be apostasies to deal with, but the truly faithful will recognize the Spirit in others and celebrate the reality of Christ together. 

[Kenngo1969]

I could not see how to read the comments. But I appreciate your own comment, Kenngo.

 

As for those who would "do well to remember", that they are making someone's spiritual home alien, I think they couldn't care less. I don't think they are concerned to retain continuity with something that is revered and beloved. I do not speak for the LDS, but as for those who have sought to change the Catholic Church, and have outwardly succeeded, they truly despise a Catholic spirituality that is compatible with the teachings of the pre-Vatican II popes. I understand if non-Catholics have missed it, but Pope Francis and his crowd have made clear enough who is their sole enemy, and it is traditional Catholics like me.

 

Do not be shocked at my candor Kenngo. I am not saying anything unheard of. Michaelangelo painted faces of popes burning in hell and Dante wrote explicitly about the damned souls of popes. I do not even say that Pope Francis is going to Hell. God save him. But he is a bad pope and he opposes us for nothing more than our unwillingness to follow him in his hopes to destroy all continuity with the Church as it was when our own parents were born. Two thousand years to build. A generation to tear apart.

I appreciate your perspective, Rory.  Your comments usually are very carefully measured, so for anyone who is familiar with your posting history to see a strongly-worded comment means you must feel it pretty deep.  I certainly respect that.  I must admit that I'm not familiar enough with the history of Roman Catholicism to opine in any substantive way about what you have written here, but you're obviously familiar with that history and with what you see as Catholicism's current undesirable trajectory, and of course, no one knows better what you think about that than, well, you , so I'll defer to you.

 

That said, are there people in both the Catholic and Mormon traditions who agitate for change who are perfectly well aware that such change will (and in the case of Roman Catholicism, perhaps, has) fundamentally altered the religion?  Yes.  But however one may feel about the aims of those individuals, even more dangerous, perhaps, are those who agitate for some (in their eyes) small change, without realizing how many potentially greatly-detrimental effects will flow from that seemingly-small change.  Since I can only speak to what I know, take ordination of women to the Priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  In worldly terms, equality sounds like such a good thing, and in many ways, it is: but, potentially, there are many hidden dangers and other pitfalls in attempting to apply a worldly paradigm to an institution which its faithful adherents hold to be God's Church and Kingdom Restored to earth.

 

I hope this is halfway coherent.  I took a sleeping pill that's starting to kick in ...  If not, check back tomorrow, and hopefully I've fixed anything that doesn't make sense.  

Edited August 25, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[why me]

"Who am I to judge?"

I  judge people on their words and actions. It is really that simple. When has judging people become bad? Do not we want our children to judge people? Whether or not they will be good friends to follow? I am afraid that we need to judge people every day as to whether they can be trusted etc. The whole idea that only god can judge seems to leave a lot of people open to misdirection and bad situations.

 

I can judge the writer of the article to be a fair person. Would I be wrong in my judgement? Maybe. And of course I can change my judgement as more information about the person becomes available.

Edited August 25, 2014 by why me

[cdowis]

Judging a person is different from judging behaviour.  The former is only reserved for those who have the keys from God to do that judgement.  

 

Moroni chapter 7 gives us guidance that we all must judge between good and evil.

[why me]

That's a fair point. However, in this case, I think those of us pushing for OW are quite okay with a significant "remodeling" of our spiritual home

And I think that the majority of mormons would agree if it is the will of god and not the will of humans. There is the point here. Who does the remodeling is what the problem is centered. Of course, there are many churches which have gone for a remodeling. Quite often if this remodeling is seen as bowing to social pressure, the membership falls eventually or stagnates. Likewise for any remodeling in the catholic church. It can't be seen to be a social pressure remodel.

 

Kate wants a social pressure remodel of the lds church. She wants to impose a human concept of equality and to have members pressure the church for change the priesthood requirements.  But where is god in all this? Out to lunch?

Edited August 25, 2014 by why me