Thinking Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 At the beginning of the tour a man in the tour group came up and shook the tour guide's hand. The guide immediately said, "Oh, you're a Mason." The guide then told us that they are often accused of being secretive, but he denied that they are. He did say that they have a handshake which allows Masons to recognize each other. He called the presentations that happen in the different rooms plays but did not say anymore about them than that. Pictures were allowed during the tour.
VideoGameJunkie Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 I like the Stonecutters from The Simpsons. 1
cinepro Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 It's my understanding that the Masons are in serious decline. I know that the local Masonic lodges I see in Los Angeles frequently have big signs encouraging people to inquire about renting the facility for banquets or filming.
Thinking Posted August 2, 2014 Author Posted August 2, 2014 It's my understanding that the Masons are in serious decline. I know that the local Masonic lodges I see in Los Angeles frequently have big signs encouraging people to inquire about renting the facility for banquets or filming. According to the Masonic Service Association of North America, membership reached its peak in 1959 and has since been steadily declining.
Kenngo1969 Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 According to the Masonic Service Association of North America, membership reached its peak in 1959 and has since been steadily declining.That's too bad.
longview Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 When I was teenager in the 60's walking around SLC, Utah, I saw a building with a sign that said "Oddfellows Temple". It was behind the Post Office on Fourth South and Main Street.Does anyone know if it was connected with Masonry?
Calm Posted August 2, 2014 Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) They appear to be different:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Order_of_Odd_FellowsI think all such social organizations like Shriners, Rotarians, etc. have lost prominence. Used to hear about them all the time." Is the Oddfellows a secret society like the Masons?No is the simple answer but the history of both the Oddfellows and the Freemasons do contain certain similarities. Both can trace their roots back to the Trade Guilds of the 12th and 13th centuries.Although there still remain come ceremonial aspects to the Oddfellows, they make up a very small part of the way we work today. Our primary concern is the social and care benefits that we offer to our members.Anyone can become a member and attend the meetings and social events, you can even attend before you join. So there is nothing secret about the Oddfellows."https://www.oddfellows.co.uk/FAQ/General Edited August 2, 2014 by calmoriah
Tacenda Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) We have a Lion's Club in Bountiful. I have a feeling it got it's start in Masonry, I saw a protractor ruler on their website and their insignia looks sort of like masonry. Edited August 4, 2014 by Tacenda
Calm Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 There is some overlap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_Clubs_International "Given that many Freemasons are members of Lions Clubs, and its founder, Melvin Jones, was also a Freemason,[30] modern conspiracy theories have claimed that the Lions are connected to and act cohesively with Freemasonry…..While there is no direct link between the Lions and the Masons, they are compatible, as evidenced by a speech delivered in 2004 to a Lions Club by a Mason named James F. Kirk-White. The topic of the talk was "Sharing Freemasonry Within Your Community". As Kirk-White explains, Masons are welcome in Lions Clubs, and vice versa. That Masons recruit from fraternal organizations such as the Lions among others. Their compatibility, moreover, is evidenced by the Masons in Albion, New York offering space for the Lions at a Masonic Lodge."
Tacenda Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) dbl post Edited August 4, 2014 by Tacenda
Stone holm Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Masonry is not affiliated with the Oddfellows. The Masonic Orders are the Blue Lodge which is fundamental, after one becomes a Master Mason in the Blue Lodge, then one can join either or both of the York Rite or the Scottish Rite. There are several organizations you have to be a Mason to join, but are not Masonic orders, such as Shrine, Grotto, and Tall Cedars. There is also a Masonic college fraternity, Acacia. There are also two youth groups: Demolays (boys) and Job's Daughters (girls) and a primarily (but not exclusively) women's group, Eastern Star. I believe most fraternal and sorority groups are in decline, especially if they don't serve alcohol. Touring a Masonic Temple is not a particularly big deal, anyone can do so when a ritual session or lodge meeting is not in session. There is a Masonic museum in Alexandria, Virginia , where they have reconstructed the lodge hall which George Washington presided over. Most of the Founding Fathers of our country and of the Restoration were masons. A rift between the Church and the Masons developed after the martyrdom. Masons are no more of a secret organization than we are. But under Masonic rules you have to ask a Mason about becoming one, they are not supposed to ask you...but some bend that rule to the breaking point. I believe the rise of Fundamentalism has had a negative effect on them, but Americans in general don't join social groups like our grandparents did. We are much more atomistic.
bjw Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 I notice that many are joining for all the wrong reasons. Some join for fancy titles by their names, thinking it will help them in life with corporate or political connections, while others join because they see it as a way to get away from their wife a few days a month. I feel like both of these things are killing the fraternity. Many people join, see this going on, and don't go back.I know that I really enjoyed my first year or two and found the kabbalistic symbolism to be beautiful, especially in the higher degrees, but I did not like the lack of interest I was seeing among the members, also being around the foul language and people getting angry at each other eventually drove me to just stay home. I still take my oaths seriously and would go back if my lodges ever go through some type of reform. However, it doesn't seem likely.I later joined the Rosicrucians and Martinists and I found they cover much of the same material as the scottish rite degrees plus go in more depth. As a comparison, york rite and scottish rite (29 degrees) cram all their degrees into a 2 weekend reunion, meaning a 3rd degree master mason can get to 32nd degree within 2 weeks of joining scottish rite. Masonry did help me understand some elements of the endowment better, but for all you go through (unless there is some serious reform) I wouldn't recommend it just for that.
Calm Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Interesting. That is sad that is happening given the purpose of the order if I understand correctly is to make good men better, not to promote selfishness.
Tsuzuki Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 ...and a primarily (but not exclusively) women's group, Eastern Star.Interesting. I thought Eastern Star was exclusively a women's order. Does this mean that Freemasonry itself is becoming more gender inclusive?
mfbukowski Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Maybe if they made Masonry a video game, it would get popular again. I know a few VERY odd fellows, but I don't think they belong to any group. Edited August 4, 2014 by mfbukowski
Stone holm Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting. I thought Eastern Star was exclusively a women's order. Does this mean that Freemasonry itself is becoming more gender inclusive?No. Very few men join Eastern Star, but they do. I knew of several, I think they play a special role, but that is speculation on my part. When you go through Scottish Rite for the first time you do not see all of the degrees, there are certain ones that are considered essential. However, not all Cathederals put on all the degrees so you may have to visit other ones to see them all. That is not true of York Rite, but it is much different. I sort of preferred York Rite because the initiates were more involved in the rituals, in Scottish Rite it is more like watching a stage play.
Stone holm Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 York Rite and Demolays are intending to recreate certain portions of matters pertaining to the militant knighthood orders of the crusades, although the former is also deeply involved with matters bearing on Solomon's Temple. King Solomon is of major significance to Masonic lore and ritual.
bjw Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 No. Very few men join Eastern Star, but they do. I knew of several, I think they play a special role, but that is speculation on my part. When you go through Scottish Rite for the first time you do not see all of the degrees, there are certain ones that are considered essential. However, not all Cathederals put on all the degrees so you may have to visit other ones to see them all. That is not true of York Rite, but it is much different. I sort of preferred York Rite because the initiates were more involved in the rituals, in Scottish Rite it is more like watching a stage play.I am an Eastern Star member, men can join with their female family members, and when I took my oath and got the token it was a man who swore me in, so I believe a man must be present to lead the lodge with the worthy matron, but I'm not sure if that's a set rule or just a custom.Like masonry, the ritual uses biblical allegory, and the 5 main characters portrayed are women from the Bible. (I won't say who as it is an oath bound ceremony.) The allegory teaches a good lesson and was one of my favorite maonic degrees.
bjw Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting. That is sad that is happening given the purpose of the order if I understand correctly is to make good men better, not to promote selfishness.I agree. I joined for one purpose, education. Scottish Rite has a good education program called master craftsman where you study the perspectives of Albert Pike and Rex Hutchens, two top masonic scholars, and do take-home quizzes and essays, that is probably what I enjoyed the most. I hope the order can get back to the meaning of the degrees, but there needs to be some kind of reform.It's my opinion that the endowment has all of this in its purest form, but after getting into Hugh Nibley and Albert Pike I've enjoyed studying hermeticism, the Kabbalah, and other rituals. It's also given me a greater appreciation for the Temple. I hope one day I can get back into masonry.
Stone holm Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Masonry has had something of an unfortunate history regarding politics and business. Mormons in Nauvoo were considered a threat in part because they were on the verge of having enough Masons to take over the Illinois Grand Lodge which would have boosted their political clout. I have only seen it used twice to gain economic advantage -- once in a zoning permit proceeding, and once in an unemployment case. Had I not been a Mason, I would not have recognized what was going on in either case. There was a story told by a WWII veteran back in Indiana who had lost both legs in the conflict of being dragged by a German Mason back to the Allied lines because the German recognized the Masonic ring. He gave credit for his survival to the heroic efforts of the German. There is also a movie out, can't remember the name, about German Masons in WWII. According to the movie, Masons were persecuted by the Nazis, but I had not heard of that before. Taken as a whole, I believe that Masonry is a very good organization and beneficial to communities. I hate to see its decline.
Tsuzuki Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 No. Very few men join Eastern Star, but they do. I knew of several, I think they play a special role, but that is speculation on my part. When you go through Scottish Rite for the first time you do not see all of the degrees, there are certain ones that are considered essential. However, not all Cathederals put on all the degrees so you may have to visit other ones to see them all. That is not true of York Rite, but it is much different. I sort of preferred York Rite because the initiates were more involved in the rituals, in Scottish Rite it is more like watching a stage play.If men can join Eastern Star, can women become Freemasons now?
bjw Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 If men can join Eastern Star, can women become Freemasons now?Unfortunately, no. There are some masonic lodges making female masons but they are considered clandestine, and you are specifically told when you become a mason that you are violating the oath if you are ever present when a woman is made a mason. It's ironic that Eastern Star is more like other esoteric orders with no gender specific requirement.
Tsuzuki Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Unfortunately, no. There are some masonic lodges making female masons but they are considered clandestine, and you are specifically told when you become a mason that you are violating the oath if you are ever present when a woman is made a mason. It's ironic that Eastern Star is more like other esoteric orders with no gender specific requirement.Call me crazy, but that might be a contributing factor to its decline. I guess if I ever want to become a mason, I should do it at one of the clandestine lodges, so I won't have to violate any oaths to hang out with female masons. Or I could just stick with Ordo Templi Orientis, which has always had full gender equality.
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