Mormons Highest In Transmittal Of Faith

[Robert F. Smith]

William McKenzie, "The God Gene: The family that prays together .  .  . well, you know the rest," The Weekly Standard, 19/44 (August 4, 2014), online at http://www.weeklystandard.com/author/william-mckenzie ,

 

--an excerpt:

 

In 1970, 67 percent of Mormon parents had young adult children who shared their religion. By 2005, 85 percent did.

 

In 1970, 70 percent of evangelical parents had young adult children within the same tradition. By 2005, 62 percent did.

 

In 1970, 94 percent of Jewish parents had young adult children who shared their religion. By 2005, 82 percent did. 

 

The article provides some very provocative reasons why this is the case.  Of prime importance:  Unconditional love, but is that all?

[boblloyd91]

This makes sense considering that spiritual experience is shared on a more familial setting in an LDS context, such as family home evening, temple work etc.

[Mystery Meat]

 

William McKenzie, "The God Gene: The family that prays together .  .  . well, you know the rest," The Weekly Standard, 19/44 (August 4, 2014), online at http://www.weeklystandard.com/author/william-mckenzie ,

 

--an excerpt:

 

In 1970, 67 percent of Mormon parents had young adult children who shared their religion. By 2005, 85 percent did.

 

In 1970, 70 percent of evangelical parents had young adult children within the same tradition. By 2005, 62 percent did.

 

In 1970, 94 percent of Jewish parents had young adult children who shared their religion. By 2005, 82 percent did. 

 

The article provides some very provocative reasons why this is the case.  Of prime importance:  Unconditional love, but is that all?

 

 

So my question is this: is the Mormon exodus overblown by its critics? By that I mean, we hear a lot about how the Church membership is shrinking or that it will shrink due to the Internet and access to Church History, the Church's stance on SSM and other social issues. Is that overblown. I understand that 2005 was nearly 10 years ago, and perhaps these number are not as up to date as they could be. Just curious.

[Storm Rider]

They are leaving in droves, droves I tell you.  One baptism comes in the front an 50 leave out the back. 

 

You think that is overblown?  No, those innocent individuals would have no reason to exaggerate their claims.  They are just convinced that if you repeat it enough in the press that it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

 

When small groups get together they begin to breathe their own ether and can convince themselves of almost anything.  Our critics are no different. 

 

The membership can do the same thing, but we have a checks and balance to this type of influence and it is the Holy Spirit.  We consistently, constantly urge each member to gain their own testimony of all things.  This process was praised by Jesus when speaking to Peter in Matt 16 and it remains just as worthy of pursuit in our day. 

[Helen47]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/54497395-180/church-census-lds-reported.html.csp

 

Seems Brazil has a problem.Read Tongues of Fire why the Pentecostals seem for successful.

[Darren10]

Awesome!

[Robert F. Smith]

So my question is this: is the Mormon exodus overblown by its critics? By that I mean, we hear a lot about how the Church membership is shrinking or that it will shrink due to the Internet and access to Church History, the Church's stance on SSM and other social issues. Is that overblown. I understand that 2005 was nearly 10 years ago, and perhaps these number are not as up to date as they could be. Just curious.

I agree that we need an updated study -- another non-Mormon study -- even though it will be ignored just as studiously as the previous studies.  In the meantime, we will continue organizing new stakes and building temples worldwide, to be filled no doubt by imaginary Mormons.  Now, there's a newsworthy story!!

[Robert F. Smith]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/54497395-180/church-census-lds-reported.html.csp

 

Seems Brazil has a problem.Read Tongues of Fire why the Pentecostals seem for successful.

Pentecostalism (the Holiness movement) has been very successful worldwide, Helen, and is a very strong competitor of the Mormons.  This will likely continue to be the case, while mainstream churches (Protestant & Catholic) rapidly decline.

[Helen47]

There is a book by a Fuller sem scholar on conversion in the NT. He argues that the percentage of people who remain converted as a result of a meeting where  they give their life to Jesus hwo remain is low. However those who have small groups ministry have a higher rate of retention. Pentcostals are not hung up about Sundays. IN the twon where I live on  A Sunday night they will have a big screen showing the football finals. Of course before and after the pastor does not miss an opportunity to do a little preaching and of course some music is also offered.  Why some might think there are not any inttellectuals among them,they are slowly become part of the academic scene like Amos Young and Gordon Fee.

[rpn]

The message of the study AND several others in the last few years, isn't that we can successfully teach our children.  The studies all suggest that parents who use force and authority to require performance get children who rebel against that faith.   The Mormon transmittal is within families who experience the true love of God, unconditionally.  

 

The results argue for fewer "you have to" and criticisms and judgments; and more "come let us reason together", love unfeigned, and service with children for others, and positive behavior support.

[3DOP]

Pentecostalism (the Holiness movement) has been very successful worldwide, Helen, and is a very strong competitor of the Mormons.  This will likely continue to be the case, while mainstream churches (Protestant & Catholic) rapidly decline.

 

The Catholic Church is indeed, in rapid decline as a whole, as she abandons the Traditional Catholic faith while recommending to her hungry children, such profound Gospel truths as , "Live and let live." 

 

Whatever old people imagine, young people aren't drawn to banality. All of my grown children are practicing Catholics today, and one is halfway through his studies on the way to the priesthood. I humbly believe it is because we got away from the Conciliar reforms that have gutted the Church of her vocations, and of young people.

[Storm Rider]

3DOP, another reason may be that the Catholic Church is by far the biggest church and much of the original membership was Europe that has fallen into a very deep secular humanist hole.  This is not to say that the effects of Vatican II have not had a detrimental impact on the membership. 

 

The Catholic Church is also a an example from which we can learn from in dealing with groups of rebellious members, anything from women and the priesthood to demands for all kinds of changes. 

[california boy]

So my question is this: is the Mormon exodus overblown by its critics? By that I mean, we hear a lot about how the Church membership is shrinking or that it will shrink due to the Internet and access to Church History, the Church's stance on SSM and other social issues. Is that overblown. I understand that 2005 was nearly 10 years ago, and perhaps these number are not as up to date as they could be. Just curious.

 

I have no idea whether there is a Mormon exodus, but I do know that a lot  has happened in the past 9 years since this study was done.  I think it would be pretty worthless to use as an argument for or against retention in todays atmosphere. I don't remember most of the reasons for the supposed exodus being on anyone's radar almost a decade ago.  The article is a bit tardy in being written don't you think??

[boblloyd91]

Pentecostalism (the Holiness movement) has been very successful worldwide, Helen, and is a very strong competitor of the Mormons.  This will likely continue to be the case, while mainstream churches (Protestant & Catholic) rapidly decline.

This is concerning to me, these are some of the most outspoken anti Mormon groups there are. I fear that as they continue to grow missionary work will be much harder for us.

[boblloyd91]

If you want to read some disturbing things about the rise of Pentecostal/Charismatic groups, study the New Apostolic Reformation. They adhere to a theology called Dominionism, which basically advocates having a Theocracy. Any competing ideology is demonic, and it's followers are demon possessed according to their world view.

[Tacenda]

I think there is a whole generation that will keep Mormonism alive and well.  They are more faithful than any youth I've ever seen in my lifetime, and I'll wager ever has been!!!

[Calm]

 

The Catholic Church is also a an example from which we can learn from in dealing with groups of rebellious members, anything from women and the priesthood to demands for all kinds of changes.

It is very kind of the Catholic Church to do all this experimentation just so we don't have to.

[Mystery Meat]

I have no idea whether there is a Mormon exodus, but I do know that a lot  has happened in the past 9 years since this study was done.  I think it would be pretty worthless to use as an argument for or against retention in todays atmosphere. I don't remember most of the reasons for the supposed exodus being on anyone's radar almost a decade ago.  The article is a bit tardy in being written don't you think??

 

Yes. And I said as much.

[Buzzard]

Family is important, but I wonder if some of the success in retaining our young people is due to Seminary, then a mission and/or Institute?  If you take advantage of those programs, by the time you come out the other end, you will probably know your religion pretty well, and they also provide resources to answer questions that young people inevitably have.

I don't think it's any mistake that the closest thing we have to a paid clergy are the teachers in the CES.

[Robert F. Smith]

If you want to read some disturbing things about the rise of Pentecostal/Charismatic groups, study the New Apostolic Reformation. They adhere to a theology called Dominionism, which basically advocates having a Theocracy. Any competing ideology is demonic, and it's followers are demon possessed according to their world view.

Worthy equivalent to the Islamic taliban.

[Robert F. Smith]

Family is important, but I wonder if some of the success in retaining our young people is due to Seminary, then a mission and/or Institute?  If you take advantage of those programs, by the time you come out the other end, you will probably know your religion pretty well, and they also provide resources to answer questions that young people inevitably have.

I don't think it's any mistake that the closest thing we have to a paid clergy are the teachers in the CES.

Very true.  But what should we term that strange priesthood, and what sort of authority do they have that is not generally recognized?

[3DOP]

It is very kind of the Catholic Church to do all this experimentation just so we don't have to.

The altar, the enclosed area around the Tabernacle where the Host dwells, used to be a domain for priests and clerics, and then specially trained boys, where clerics and deacons were lacking. There is an entire art and science developed about proper ways of arranging the altar and to behave while attending the altar, mostly derived from the Presence of our Lord in the Tabernacle. It was always considered a nursing ground and vocation builder for the Church's future priests. Then came the female invasion. In ramming girls down their throats, the boys lost the sense of doing something that was special for them. The Catholic priesthood is dying all over the world, with the exception of places where the female invasion was resisted, and equally important, where the urge to tear up the churches architecturally was resisted. Instead of a sense of awe and reverence, the churches now have quirky, odd, and downright homely decor. Banners and modern art with weird caricatures have replaced stained glass and beautiful but life like statuary. The Catholic faith as envisioned by Woodstock wannabees has become a church of graying, handholding, kumbaya dorks, and they wonder why young people don't want to be their priests and religious? 

 

It is true that the religious order which my son will be serving with is currently suspended by the Holy See. There are many developments historically and their vocal opponents will cry, "Disobedient, disobedient, disobedient", until they are out of breath. The "disobedience" consists in believing what the Church has always believed, and forming priests the way the Church has always formed them. Even under the cloud of suspicion, accusation, and misinformation about the miscarriage of canon law and natural justice understood by all decent people, the vocations to the priesthood continue to grow. Here in America, there so many that they are now building a new seminary because the old one can't hold them anymore. Our son was three to a room that was meant for one until he was late in his second year. 

 

I know this is a board about Mormonism and I resist speaking out most of the time when the Holy Father is being praised by all the non-Catholics, but we are talking about why the Catholics aren't keeping their kids and Mormons are in this thread. If you want to make your men stay away from church elevate the women to positions of authority. That will do more to drive away men than anything. Sorry ladies, men don't like being bossed by you. Its the way we are. The modern Church certainly expresses tenderness and respect for non-Catholics. But how does she treat her own allegedly wayward children if they dare to demur from the modern ideas that have wrecked for the most part, the visible Church. Our son's order, which was founded with absolute and undeniable canonical permission, had sought to purchase for its new seminary, a piece of land in the Hudson Valley belonging to another religious order that can't find young men to go to its seminary. They were told that it was for sale, yes. But not to us. It was sold to the Lutherans.

 

If only the Church would treat us as they treat Lutherans. Most of our chapels are bursting with people that don't have enough space to park their cars and big family vans, to have catechism, to be a church. Our "church facility" is inadequate but we continue to gain more families. The modernist Catholic churches are losing families and closing all over the country. But we have to buy churches from Protestants, and renovate them, because as soon as the dioceses find out it is for us, these Catholic churches are no longer for sale. "Protestant? No problem brother, maybe we can make a deal." "Moslem? Oh yeah, make our church into a mosque." They don't love us who think it is worthwhile to preserve the faith of their fathers.

 

Things got better during the reign of Pope Benedict. He knew we were what the Church needed. Now it is open season on Tradition. Anyone who even appears to have sympathy with Tradition is labelled, Lefebvrist (SSPX) and ostracized. As we see it, the Catholic Church, like our Lord, is now undergoing a sort of crucifixion. His divinity was certainly obscured on the Cross, He barely resembled a man. We will never be tempted into believing He was not God, and we likewise know that for His own designs, God has allowed this suffering to go on for fifty years now where the Church seems to be destroying itself. One can hardly discern the Church as anything but a dying human institution. But just as the faith of his disciples were tested at His passion, so in the passion of the Church are we being tested. Where else can we go? We stand by, seeing the passion of the Church, seeming unable to help. But we will stay by Her, and if She ever seems to have been buried we will be visiting Her tomb and venerating it, expecting a resurrection.

 

I don't expect my last words to make goose bumps rise on any LDS skins. I merely want to explain, to announce, that for Traditionalists like me, even if she punishes us, and shows she wishes we would go away, are happily obliged to love our Holy Mother Church as ever. No. Even more than ever when she seems so weak and failing. It seems like she is a crazy drunken mother now, who doesn't recognize it when her most loving children are offering her the medicines she needs to make herself right again. If I have ever sounded like I am disrespectful towards my dear Mother, I apologize. Frustrated, I probably have said things that didn't display enough filial piety. I want to say to you all here: Catholics who like the changes, Mormons, and all non-Catholics, that Holy Mother Church hasn't been quite herself these fifty or so years most of us have been acquainted with Her. You can't know what the Catholic Church IS if you live only in this century and the latter half of the 20th. There is a reason her children haven't been staying. She'll come around. She is a strong woman! (Her Head is Christ so what should we expect? Heh.) Wait and see.

 

Rory     

[ChristKnight]

Rory, I was just reading a traditionalist blog and happened upon these two things that reminded me of you post. Perhap you'll fnd them interesting:

http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2014/06/again-there-is-no-vocations-crisis.html

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/17/us/in-two-michigan-villages-a-higher-calling-is-often-heard.html?smid=fb-share&_r=3&referrer