Missionaries, Hoarder Members And Supper Appts.

[Duncan]

We have a few hoarder members in our ward one of whom fairly often feeds the missionaries. She is older, well meaning, but her house is awful. I have been there, the smell, the heat, adult diapers in various places..cat... stuff. She has been brought up a time or two in ward council to get her help but as we all know with hoarders it's a slow process. She is a single lady so the sisters visit her. I was thinking should we be allowing them to eat supper there? Bodily fluids and she isn't always fully clothed when she answers the door and it's hot in there to me anyways would say no way to eating there. I know the last time the sisters ate there they had fish tacos. I can't even mentally process eating fish tacos but especially in that kind of an environment and I don't want the sisters to think they have to eat that there. I don't want one of them to get a Hep virus or something! What do you think?

[CV75]

We have a few hoarder members in our ward one of whom fairly often feeds the missionaries. She is older, well meaning, but her house is awful. I have been there, the smell, the heat, adult diapers in various places..cat... stuff. She has been brought up a time or two in ward council to get her help but as we all know with hoarders it's a slow process. She is a single lady so the sisters visit her. I was thinking should we be allowing them to eat supper there? Bodily fluids and she isn't always fully clothed when she answers the door and it's hot in there to me anyways would say no way to eating there. I know the last time the sisters ate there they had fish tacos. I can't even mentally process eating fish tacos but especially in that kind of an environment and I don't want the sisters to think they have to eat that there. I don't want one of them to get a Hep virus or something! What do you think?

The missionaries keep going for some reason--is there something going on that you don't know about?!?!?!

Edited July 2, 2014 by CV75

[Tacenda]

Oh Duncan. That's almost impossible w/o hurting her feelings.

[Duncan]

The missionaries keep going for some reason--is there something going on that you don't know about?!?!?!

 

well, she's a church service missionary, they don't like going there but she's an interesting person and has been a concern before in other areas

[Duncan]

Oh Duncan. That's almost impossible w/o hurting her feelings.

 

 

that's the thing, I was thinking of just telling the missionaries don't think you have to eat there, I don't know how to approach this or how to do it!hahaha!

[Garden Girl]

that's the thing, I was thinking of just telling the missionaries don't think you have to eat there, I don't know how to approach this or how to do it!hahaha!

 

I don't understand your "hahaha!"

This is not a funny matter... it is serious, and in no way should the missionaries be eating there.

First, she knows she's a hoarder...  she knows this can't possibly be normal behavior... and that if there is diapers, etc., it is a health issue.  Why should you or your ward leadership even think it is anywhere near okay to have the sisters eat there...

Sounds like it is time for the bishop to call her in and have a serious talk about the situation... so her feelings "get hurt."  Better her feelings than some illness to the sisters that could have a lasting effect such as hepatitis...

 

Your bishop needs to get real and deal with this... he can be compassionate but firm...  but deal with it someone must...

 

GG

[Duncan]

I don't understand your "hahaha!"

This is not a funny matter... it is serious, and in no way should the missionaries be eating there.

First, she knows she's a hoarder...  she knows this can't possibly be normal behavior... and that if there is diapers, etc., it is a health issue.  Why should you or your ward leadership even think it is anywhere near okay to have the sisters eat there...

Sounds like it is time for the bishop to call her in and have a serious talk about the situation... so her feelings "get hurt."  Better her feelings than some illness to the sisters that could have a lasting effect such as hepatitis...

 

Your bishop needs to get real and deal with this... he can be compassionate but firm...  but deal with it someone must...

 

GG

 I chuckle when I talk sometimes and I write like I talk

 

see! that's what I think as well, I can't fathom eating there and I don't have to do it, I did my fair share of eating in hot houses in LA for 2 years-exactley, hep. is the thing that keeps on giving, you can't even open her door to get into the place. 

[halconero]

We have a few hoarder members in our ward one of whom fairly often feeds the missionaries. She is older, well meaning, but her house is awful. I have been there, the smell, the heat, adult diapers in various places..cat... stuff. She has been brought up a time or two in ward council to get her help but as we all know with hoarders it's a slow process. She is a single lady so the sisters visit her. I was thinking should we be allowing them to eat supper there? Bodily fluids and she isn't always fully clothed when she answers the door and it's hot in there to me anyways would say no way to eating there. I know the last time the sisters ate there they had fish tacos. I can't even mentally process eating fish tacos but especially in that kind of an environment and I don't want the sisters to think they have to eat that there. I don't want one of them to get a Hep virus or something! What do you think?

 

The best solution to this without offending the sister is to plan joint-dinners. Get her to go over to another (cleaner) member's house to help prepare a dinner for the missionaries.

 

Also, my pescetarian (vegetarian that eats fish/seafood), gluten-free girlfriend (she actually has celiac disease) makes a delicious fish taco with coconut-flour tortillas. The coconuty base, grilled fish with some lime is absolutely amazing.

[Calm]

Please post the recipe in the recipe thread in Social...

Edited July 2, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

You don't want to offend people, but if someone gets ill that affects them for the rest of their life is it worth it?

Think of it like not wanting to take away a driver's license because someone is getting old and less aware of their surroundings. It affects their quality of life so much and you know, dying instantly in a car crash isn't that bad since they are going to die soon anyway...

Tell that to the family whose mother, father, child they take out with them....or tell that to them when they ate confined to a bed in severe pain for several more years because the crash wasn't 'that bad'.

The woman is not doing herself any favours, perhaps if someone had been willing to risk offending her in the past she wouldn't be in such a situation now.

That doesn't give carte Blanche to be unkind about it, but be wise and prudent as well as kind and seek out the Spirit for inspiration as well as our ideas.

[Ahab]

If the sisters or anyone else declines to eat or even visit her at her house just do her the courtesy of giving her the real reason for declining. Making up excuses or making it seem like you would go when you would not isn't doing her any real favor and it doesn't help her to know she really needs to get her act together.

The only reason I would go into a house like that is to help clean it up, or to get her out of there if she couldn't walk out on her own.

I have an aunt who has that problem, and I practice what I preach about how to deal with it. Shr does have the freedom to live that way if she wants to, of course, and it doesn't really seem to bother her, which I think is the problem.

[rpn]

Why don't (you her HTers/VTers, RSP?) ask her how they can help her get to a place where it is healthy to let the sister missionaries eat there, because they find her interesting and want to be able to , and she obviously enjoys it too.  Could be the catalyst that helps her.  Why doesn't someone just show her how to dispose properly of the offensive materials --- hoarders don't generally hoard soiled things --- that usually comes when they are mentally ill and maybe have a problem with smells. 

[Tacenda]

I once VT a neighbor who's house was horrendous. On one visit I saw eaten chicken bones thrown on the ground. When it was Xmas she gave me fudge, I couldn't eat it. I had to lie about liking her fudge.

I watch the hoarder show on TV sometimes, I'm amazed at how clean they are and healthy after seeing they're unable to use their broken toilet, they use the sink to bathe in and then can't even get into the kitchen to cook. But I don't have much hope that the church can fully help unless they call in the experts.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

Why don't (you her HTers/VTers, RSP?) ask her how they can help her get to a place where it is healthy to let the sister missionaries eat there, because they find her interesting and want to be able to , and she obviously enjoys it too.  Could be the catalyst that helps her.  Why doesn't someone just show her how to dispose properly of the offensive materials --- hoarders don't generally hoard soiled things --- that usually comes when they are mentally ill and maybe have a problem with smells. 

 

this has been done and discussed and the ward has a member who 'works' over there but not always and not FT. from what I understand she had bedbugs and so she had to have some professionals over there and cleaned it but that was 2-3 years ago and it's back to the way it was but eating over there is done!

[Duncan]

I once VT a neighbor who's house was horrendous. On one visit I saw eaten chicken bones thrown on the ground. When it was Xmas she gave me fudge, I couldn't eat it. I had to lie about liking her fudge.

I watch the hoarder show on TV sometimes, I'm amazed at how clean they are and healthy after seeing they're unable to use their broken toilet, they use the sink to bathe in and then can't even get into the kitchen to cook. But I don't have much hope that the church can fully help unless they call in the experts.

 

that's just it, none of us are professionals. I contacted the RS Pres. who knows about it and who's husband HT there and I had a meeting with the missionaries. They told me some other things that we all gagged on and so I told them, you're done eating there and they were grateful!

[Calm]

I VTed a home where the kids slept on mattresses on the floor, the place reeked on cat urine, had the pizza boxes, etc over table and floor and dirty dishes spilling out of the kitchen and the kids had been sent home from school with lice multiple times. I had long hair at the time and sat on the edge of my seat and daily checked my hair for sometime afterwards.

We took in one of the sons for a time, I have never seen a boy keep his room so immaculate. I think he developed the habit because it was one of the few things he had control over in his life (we found out there was abuse in the home, it had been heart breaking before...I used to spend the nights I couldn't sleep designing the kids' bedrooms in my head in some inexpensive and easy to keep up way...it was almost unbearable to think about afterwards). The ward helped the family move into a new home and fixed it up for them, but it was out of the ward boundaries and we moved not long after so I don't know how they fared.

Edited July 2, 2014 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

If the sisters or anyone else declines to eat or even visit her at her house just do her the courtesy of giving her the real reason for declining. Making up excuses or making it seem like you would go when you would not isn't doing her any real favor and it doesn't help her to know she really needs to get her act together.

The only reason I would go into a house like that is to help clean it up, or to get her out of there if she couldn't walk out on her own.

I have an aunt who has that problem, and I practice what I preach about how to deal with it. Shr does have the freedom to live that way if she wants to, of course, and it doesn't really seem to bother her, which I think is the problem.

 

 

that is an excellent idea! beats having to lie all the time!

[Duncan]

The best solution to this without offending the sister is to plan joint-dinners. Get her to go over to another (cleaner) member's house to help prepare a dinner for the missionaries.

 

Also, my pescetarian (vegetarian that eats fish/seafood), gluten-free girlfriend (she actually has celiac disease) makes a delicious fish taco with coconut-flour tortillas. The coconuty base, grilled fish with some lime is absolutely amazing.

 

that is an excellent idea, get her out of the house and she can have help cooking and it's good!

[Calm]

that's just it, none of us are professionals. I contacted the RS Pres. who knows about it and who's husband HT there and I had a meeting with the missionaries. They told me some other things that we all gagged on and so I told them, you're done eating there and they were grateful!

Good.

You can't just go in and help people if they don't want it. Doesn't turn out well.

I would do that for my grandma, she would act like she was okay with it but fuss saying it was enough, but I wasn't going to let her live in unhealthy surroundings. For my reward she accused me of stealing her Christmas lights and temple clothing. Pointing out to her me choosing to use stolen temple clothing would kind of defeat the purpose would result in her agreeing and then a repeat of the accusation...anything to avoid admitting she wasn't capable of taking care of herself, her memory was going, etc.

I have known of two cases where the RS stepped in when moms were hospitalized to help out (and had been asked to help, but in specific, impossible ways) and cleaned the house and thereafter were trashed talked by theses women. I know of another family where the ward women really stepped in to help out a dying mother (cancer) over a long period of time with no complaints from the husband, but almost as soon as his wife was dead he became an antimormon and taught classes on how intrusive the Church was etc.

Edited July 2, 2014 by calmoriah

[CV75]

well, she's a church service missionary, they don't like going there but she's an interesting person and has been a concern before in other areas

Then I would teach her guests correct principles and let them sanitize themselves!

[Tacenda]

Good.

You can't just go in and help people if they don't want it. Doesn't turn out well.

I would do that for my grandma, she would act like she was okay with it but fuss saying it was enough, but I wasn't going to let her live in unhealthy surroundings. For my reward she accused me of stealing her Christmas lights and temple clothing. Pointing out to her me choosing to use stolen temple clothing would kind of defeat the purpose would result in her agreeing and then a repeat of the accusation...anything to avoid admitting she wasn't capable of taking care of herself, her memory was going, etc.

I have known of two cases where the RS stepped in when moms were hospitalized to help out (and had been asked to help, but in specific, impossible ways) and cleaned the house and thereafter were trashed talked by theses women. I know of another family where the ward women really stepped in to help out a dying mother (cancer) over a long period of time with no complaints from the husband, but almost as soon as his wife was dead he became an antimormon and taught classes on how intrusive the Church was etc.

I've seen this too. But in some cases it is the RS sisters fault, without their meaning to, they clean the place so well it makes the sister feel inadequate. I remember a story about a sister that complained the sister cleaned out her fridge, she wasn't pleased. But I could have been the one to do that, but not anymore. Especially after hearing stories all these years.

My sister and family who are inactive, she's married to a Catholic, were getting ready to move from Colorado. They just happen to be in the ward of a family friend from childhood. And this guy is a character. A great guy but real pushy. Apparently he gathered half his ward (missionary opportunity) and went to town helping my sister who hadn't asked for it. I guess with all those people it was pretty scary to have all your things all gathered up and put who knows where. She just felt it was too overwhelming. But it was a nice thought I guess.

As members we need to be careful especially with a mentally ill person. Some hoarders choose their stuff over their family.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Tacenda

[Calm]

"But in some cases it is the RS sisters fault, without their meaning to, they clean the place so well it makes the sister feel inadequate"

Well, most women I know will put more effort into cleaning other people's houses than their own in the sense of getting them really, really clean (not in a ongoing sense, but if you compare their typical cleaning of a refrig to the one time they do it for a neighbour...) It is meant as a gift after all, would you not want to give the best gift you can?

And in my view, if you ask for help, you shouldn't be uptight about how it is provided, we need to learn to be charitable to others in accepting charity as much as giving it.

I've known of women who ask for help with meals and then give details on what they should and should not be including what brands not because of health issues, but just because of preference. I find that extremely rude given the pressures other women are under, it may mean cooking an extra meal instead of just doubling up or even a special trip to the store or excessive costs.

Now if there is an actual health issue and not just a fad ( one required a special meal for a daughter who had shortly before become a vegetarian on principle but had eaten omnivorous the rest of her life and quite possibly would shortly switch back if she had to cook for herself)

When one hasn't asked, it is a different situation.

Edited July 3, 2014 by calmoriah

[Garden Girl]

Some of my posts sound harsh, when I really don't mean them to be... but... hoarding is a mental disorder... Tacenda, I too have watched the TV shows on hoarding, and it is true, when people try and help a hoarder "clean things up" the hoarder can actually start to hyperventilate, get weak, cry, etc.  It takes professional help, and counseling for the hoarder to be able to "let go" of the stuff they surround themselves with... like making a safe oocoon from whatever perceived danger is in their mind. 

 

Most hoarders cannot stop hoarding if they don't work with a professional... in the meantime, Duncan, just protect the sisters as you can...

 

GG

[Tacenda]

"But in some cases it is the RS sisters fault, without their meaning to, they clean the place so well it makes the sister feel inadequate"

Well, most women I know will put more effort into cleaning other people's houses than their own in the sense of getting them really, really clean (not in a ongoing sense, but if you compare their typical cleaning of a refrig to the one time they do it for a neighbour...) It is meant as a gift after all, would you not want to give the best gift you can?

And in my view, if you ask for help, you shouldn't be uptight about how it is provided, we need to learn to be charitable to others in accepting charity as much as giving it.

I've known of women who ask for help with meals and then give details on what they should and should not be including what brands not because of health issues, but just because of preference. I find that extremely rude given the pressures other women are under, it may mean cooking an extra meal instead of just doubling up or even a special trip to the store or excessive costs.

Now if there is an actual health issue and not just a fad ( one required a special meal for a daughter who had shortly before become a vegetarian on principle but had eaten omnivorous the rest of her life and quite possibly would shortly switch back if she had to cook for herself)

When one hasn't asked, it is a different situation.

I shouldn't have said it was the RS sisters fault, you're right. I should have added that we have to be careful. I'm gulity of going overboard like some of us tend to do. Once when my daughter was tending a boy with special needs she called me to come and help her with something. Guess what I proceeded to do? I started cleaning the house a little because I knew the mother and she had her own health problems. In my heart I knew she'd probably feel bad that someone felt the need to clean her place. I never heard, I'm thinking she thought it was my daughter. But still feel guilty that I thought her house wasn't clean enough. So maybe that's where my thinking was, or my excuse for saying it was the RS sisters fault. .

[Duncan]

Some of my posts sound harsh, when I really don't mean them to be... but... hoarding is a mental disorder... Tacenda, I too have watched the TV shows on hoarding, and it is true, when people try and help a hoarder "clean things up" the hoarder can actually start to hyperventilate, get weak, cry, etc.  It takes professional help, and counseling for the hoarder to be able to "let go" of the stuff they surround themselves with... like making a safe oocoon from whatever perceived danger is in their mind. 

 

Most hoarders cannot stop hoarding if they don't work with a professional... in the meantime, Duncan, just protect the sisters as you can...

 

GG

 

 

I talked to the RS Pres. and her hubbie is the HT there and we are all in agreement they are no longer eating there. I love them too much to have them eat there and she needs help, which I can't give her but eating there is a thing of the past