"visions Of Glory" - Nonsense? Or Legit?

[bdouglas]

I was under the impression he was highly regarded by the 12, isn't one of them a good friend? And if he is going to be working so closely in the future with at least half of them, why in the world would he be at risk from them? Will not God back Spencer up if he has this mission to fulfill? How can he hide his candle and do all this good at the same time?

 

In the book he mentions more than once his "apostolic friend". In one part he sees this "apostolic friend" praying mightily for him and weeping as he prays. This is one of the bits I found very hard to take. It came across as almost funny——at least I laughed when I read it.

[Calm]

"The candle of that book of visions is burning bright."

Yes, but without the owner of it anywhere near.

[bdouglas]

I think you said he was bound to be sanctioned if anyone knew his identity.

 

You dodged my question. I understand it probably isn't something you are free to divulge. I do think that eventually he will become known and that ultimately he may have to choose between his church membership and pushing his bogus vision.

[Calm]

Nice try the Nehor. I ask all the Neyhor-sayers again to run this through your mind. If Spencer were anything but anonymous, how would he fare with our current climate of mistrust and chaos. Would he be asked to stop publishing his book? Would he lose his privilege to serve in his ward?

If Spencer is who he says he is, why does he care what others think about him to the point he hides his identity? Why is he not out there proclaiming this calling he has?

Abinadi was preserved till his mission was complete, so was Joseph though his life and freedom was at risk over and over again. Will not God protect his messengers so they may fulfill the work they are called to do? Why does Spencer hide?

Edited July 1, 2014 by calmoriah

[bdouglas]

I can imagine a meeting of the Twelve and First Prez. One of them asks, "Do any of you know who this 'Spencer' is? Or have any of you been up all night praying for him and weeping as you prayed?" Heads shake all around. "No, not me." "Nope." Etc.

 

If he makes his identity known then he has to own some things, and one is his "apostolic friend" and who he is. But this "apostolic friend" probably really does not exist. Maybe is an "imaginary friend", manofthecloth——an "imaginary apostolic friend".

Edited July 1, 2014 by bdouglas

[The Nehor]

The candle of that book of visions is burning bright.

 

Mostly because it fell over and lit the book on fire so the paper within is finally serving a useful and valuable purpose.

[manofthecloth]

If Spencer is who he says he is, why does he care what others think about him to the point he hides his identity? Why is he not out there proclaiming this calling he has?

Abinadi was preserved till his mission was complete, so was Joseph though his life and freedom was at risk over and over again. Will not God protect his messengers so they may fulfill the work they are called to do? Why does Spencer hide?

Surely you remember Joseph's torture when his own wife and the stake president of Nauvoo asked the same question? "Why in this time of need are you hiding?" Joseph came out from hiding and was slaughtered. Spencer may not be a Joseph or an Abinidai because he is what he is. Something prompted both he and Pontius to remain anonymous. With all the pressure on his identity it is a wonder it is still mostly unknown. A miracle perhaps.

[manofthecloth]

Mostly because it fell over and lit the book on fire so the paper within is finally serving a useful and valuable purpose.

You are not quite as Mark Twain funny as my cousin bDouglas, but close.

[The Nehor]

With all the pressure on his identity it is a wonder it is still mostly unknown. A miracle perhaps.

 

A couple of people on the internet mildly interested but not enough to really look? Yes, it would take a great miracle to overcome that level of interest.

 

[/sarcasm]

[manofthecloth]

I can imagine a meeting of the Twelve and First Prez. One of them asks, "Do any of you know who this 'Spencer' is? Or have any of you been up all night praying for him and weeping as you prayed?" Heads shake all around. "No, not me." "Nope." Etc.

 

If he makes his identity known then he has to own some things, and one is his "apostolic friend" and who he is. But this "apostolic friend" probably really does not exist. Maybe is an "imaginary friend", manofthecloth——an "imaginary apostolic friend".

This should be in a political cartoon.  Very funny cuz.   Were you ever a script writer? But then you had to interject your blatant bias about him not actually having an apostolic friend. Sounds like Spencer envy to me.

Edited July 1, 2014 by manofthecloth

[bdouglas]

This should be in a political cartoon.  Very funny cuz.   But then you had to interject your blatant bias about him not actually having an apostolic friend. Sounds like Spencer envy to me.

 

Who wouldn't envy a man who shares an office, or has an office next to Christ in the New Jerusalem and who rescues the Ten Tribes???????

[The Nehor]

Who wouldn't envy a man who shares an office, or has an office next to Christ in the New Jerusalem and who rescues the Ten Tribes???????

 

For do not the scriptures say "Let he who is greatest among you get a corner office next to Jesus's office"?

[bdouglas]

Honestly, I think Spencer may suffer from narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not schooled in psychology, but what do you make of someone who claims for himself the honors Spencer does in "Visions"? It is possible to read the book and see it as nothing else but a paen to Spencer, a testimony of his "specialness" and chosen and elite status.

Edited July 1, 2014 by bdouglas

[manofthecloth]

Honestly, I think Spencer may suffer from narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not schooled in psychology, but what do you make of someone who claims for himself the honors Spencer does in "Visions"?

Our mothers always warned us, 'it takes one to know one' and narcissistic personality disorders wouldn't be something about which I would know. If I were Spencer I would stick to the visions and report what I saw. I am so glad he is not reading these posts.  

[bdouglas]

deleted

Edited July 1, 2014 by bdouglas

[Alan]

I read this book a few months ago. I was impressed at first but upon further reflection I had some serious issues with it. Many of those issues have been mentioned in this tread.

 

However, I have recently become aware of another book recently published, written by an entirely different author (this time a woman) who, apparently unaware of "Visions of Glory", relates a very similar experience/vision and description of the end times.

 

In the mouth of two or three witnesses?

Just sayin'.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

You do realize this is not an LDS only board or even the typical LDS mix here....

Juliann has read the book from cover to cover, took great notes and she is the one who insisted I read it (didn't get my copy today, will try and pick it up tomorrow but probably won't get into till next week given family events....). So you mock someone who took the book seriously enough to study it, keep track of what he was saying well enough to see if he was consistent, compared it to what is in the scriptures etc...so why should anyone bother who intends to read it critically (in the academic sense, not pejoratively) and not just assume from the get go that it is as praiseworthy as you claim? Do you plan on mocking everyone who reads it and doesn't accept it to be what it claims, whatever that might be....metaphor or literal?

We should have her and Avraham Gileadi battle it out- apparently, he is a proponent of the book. I would buy the PPV.

[manofthecloth]

I read this book a few months ago. I was impressed at first but upon further reflection I had some serious issues with it. Many of those issues have been mentioned in this tread.

 

However, I have recently become aware of another book recently published, written by an entirely different author (this time a woman) who, apparently unaware of "Visions of Glory", relates a very similar experience/vision and description of the end times.

 

In the mouth of two or three witnesses?

Just sayin'.

Shouting from the housetops manofthecloth yelled. 'I GOT SOME HELP!' Alan please share the other book's title if you know it and why it may be a different witness of end time events.

[manofthecloth]

We should have her and Avraham Gileadi battle it out- apparently, he is a proponent of the book. I would buy the PPV.

It sounds like Brother Gileadi would be a proponent of her other book.

[The Nehor]

I read this book a few months ago. I was impressed at first but upon further reflection I had some serious issues with it. Many of those issues have been mentioned in this tread.

 

However, I have recently become aware of another book recently published, written by an entirely different author (this time a woman) who, apparently unaware of "Visions of Glory", relates a very similar experience/vision and description of the end times.

 

In the mouth of two or three witnesses?

Just sayin'.

 

I could write a similar book. Need another witness? Seriously if I didn't think I would be damned for it I would write such a book. There appear to be plenty of schmucks willing to buy them.

[manofthecloth]

I could write a similar book. Need another witness? Seriously if I didn't think I would be damned for it I would write such a book. There appear to be plenty of schmucks willing to buy them.

Yeah! And let us not forget how much the Lord loves those who say thou fool thou raca thou schmuck.

[The Nehor]

Yeah! And let us not forget how much the Lord loves those who say thou fool thou raca thou schmuck.

 

He uses the term enough himself and has his prophets do the same thing so I really don't see the harm.

[Scott Lloyd]

I plan on mocking no one especially you. If Juliann or anyone has a specific problem with the book that is contrary to doctrine I haven't heard or read it yet. 

There are too many doctrinal problems with the book to list in one post. I'll give a sample as I get time. (I'm indebted to a knowledgeable friend for pointing these out; the following list thus reflects his analysis.)

 

 o The author said he would meet someone named John to share his dreams with who would help him understand the dreams. This contradicts how the Lord works within the Church regarding spiritual manifestations and gifts (see D&C 46:27).

 

o Among strange doctrines found throughout the book, Spencer indicates that angels had come dressed in nurse uniforms posing as mortals to attend his birth. This does not conform to the ministering of angels as defined in scripture (see Moroni 7:31).

 

I will add here that only the president of the Church is authorized to declare new doctrine.

 

o There is no scriptural or prophetic precedent for God allowing evil spirits to take on the form of a dead prophet or of someone's spouse for the purpose of deceiving others.

 

o The notion of deceased family members having as their "first responsibility as departed spirits" to guide their living posterity takes the concept of guardian angels to the extreme.

(See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:54.)

 

o One of the visions recounted in the book is of a terrible earthquake resulting in the leadership of the Church being stricken, including the death of two members of the First Presidency and several members of the Twelve. This contradicts the order in which revelation comes from God (see JST Amos 3:7).

 

More to come.

[Scott Lloyd]

Continuing the list of doctrinal problems in the book:

 

• In the book there is an account of a future solemn assembly after several of the brethren have been killed in a great earthquake. Only one member of the First Presidency has survived, and he sits alone in their reserved seats. This is contrary to the established order in which, when the Church president dies, the First Presidency is dissolved and, at the subsequent solemn assembly, the Twelve take their places in order of seniority and no lone person sits in the chairs of the First Presidency.
• A great meeting held at Adam-Ondi-Ahman is described as being so small that no PA system was needed. This is contrary to prophecy that says the meeting will include the faithful from Adam’s day to the present, replicating the meeting described in D&C 107:53-57. Neal A. Maxwell taught: “The valley of Adam-Ondi-Ahman will ring again – this time with the sounds of dispensational reunion, as it glows with gathering [see Dan. 7:13-14; D&C 107:53-57; D&C 161:1]!” (Ensign Nov. 1986, p. 59)

 

More to come.

[juliann]

Finally a glimmer of help in this MDDB echo chamber. Thank you BookofMormonLuvr for the fig leaf. God's covenant people tend to mock anything which does not conform to orthodoxy, but I'm sure that doesn't apply to you. If God wants to send a message through anyone other than our prophet, the covenanters will not be listening, but that won't include you. Spencer doesn't say, 'thus saith the Lord' so his message is probably not a test except in the sense of a wake-up call. Wake up Zion! How does this sound: 'MDDB posters (bDouglas, El Nehor, Juliann etc) can leave the book on the shelf (and please do) but they can't leave it alone'

 

My concern about that book was because two people have born testimony of it in F&T meeting.   Only then did I realize I would have to read it.  And here is the real concern....which I was unaware of until I did read it. One of our more vocal members routinely uses his theology in classes.  I just considered this person to be a little wacky, but she is repeating things from this book. She attributed the building of smaller temples as a way to accommodate Christ visiting earth...because only the temples had "portals"....so now he can visit in lots of places. His guardian angel theology is particularly toxic when used to assure others that if they are righteous enough, their dead parents can visit with them. 

 

So the concern is that VoG supporters aren't keeping it on the shelf.  And everyone should be familiar enough with what Spencer is promoting to recognize it when it shows up in classes that are supposed to be based on gospel principles.