Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Vance]

Actually it doesn't say what you claim. It doesn't say that we partook of it "In the exact same manner that Jesus did."

Again, you fail to grasp the obvious.

In fact, our preexistence isn't ever referenced, ever, and as I pointed out, elsewhere in the NT it is specifically taught that only Jesus was preexistent.

No, it never says that. You are reading something to those verses that isn't there.

[Vance]

If our preexistence was a reality, you wouldn't expect the teachings of the NT to say the opposite, now would you?

I wouldn't and it doesn't.

[ERayR]

 

The NT teaches that only Jesus pre-existed because he was God in the flesh. It never teaches that we also pre-existed, it never references our preexistence in anyway. 

 

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

[ERayR]

Indeed it states it here and other places where it says that we are from the Earth.

 

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

Nothing in the Bible? 

 

John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."

So, no one except Jesus. Seems like a pretty clear statement to me. Don't you think?

This is seriously your argument? Seriously? I mean if nothing is going to back up our position it is this verse that you just trotted out. Ill show you.

 

Are you going to go to heaven? Is any one that lived on this Earth going to be saved? The answer is Yes. So by your logic that person must have come from heaven to go into heaven. For it is written in scripture. Or what you are advocating by this verse is that no one can go to heaven because only Jesus came from heaven. I think you need to look at the context of this verse. You will discover that your interpretation has serious implications for your theology. So no, this is not a "pretty clear statement".

 

 

The context of these verse suggest how one is saved. What this verse means is that only Christ, he was the only one that came down that was able to go back up because he did not need to be saved. He was perfect. This verse is not saying that "Only the Son of Man pre existed".

[danielwoods]

1) It is consistent with what you have been claiming, that life begins when God places the (pre-existing) spirit into the body.

So, inorder to make your case, you have to read into the scripture what isn't there?

It simply doesn't say, "God places the (pre-existing) spirit into the body."

What it actually says, is Adam (notice his name is used) became a living being. If there's any confusion, notice what Genesis 1:1 states. "In the beginning God…"

There is not sense of others in the beginning with God (and for those who don't believe in the Trinity, the reference to God is all three in the Godhead).

 

2) James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

We don't disagree that the body without the spirit is dead. Where we disagree is the idea that the spirit was preexistent because there's isn't even one reference to it being the case. 

[danielwoods]

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

There are many places where God references his foreknowledge, this is one of them. This isn't saying that Jeremiah existed before he was formed, only that in God's foreknowledge, he knew what Jeremiah would become. 

[Vance]

Nothing in the Bible? 

 

John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."

So, no one except Jesus. Seems like a pretty clear statement to me. Don't you think?

Well, let's look at the whole verse.

American Standard Version

And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, [even] the Son of man, who is in heaven.

Douay-Rheims

And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

Hebrew Names Version

No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.

King James Version

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

New King James Version

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

New Living Translation

For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.

The Darby Translation

And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

The Webster Bible

And no man hath ascended to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man who is in heaven.

Third Millennium Bible

And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Tyndale

And no man ascendeth vp to heaven but he that came doune from heaven that is to saye the sonne of man which is in heaven.

Weymouth New Testament

There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven.

World English Bible

No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.

Wycliffe

And no man ascendeth [up] into heaven, but he that came down from heaven, man's Son that is in heaven. [And no man ascendeth into heaven, no but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven.]

Young's Literal Translation

and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

So, if we take this whole verse as being literal, we would have to call Jesus an obvious liar.

1) He had not ascended up into heaven.

2) He was not "in heaven".

There is, obviously, a problem with the transmission of what Jesus actually said/meant in this verse.

Not a good verse to base your whole argument on.

John 3:31 "The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all."

1) This is John the Baptist speaking.

2) It doesn't support your claim.

3) Is the one who comes from above, above God, the Father?

Notice again, the *one* who come from above is above all.

Just a translation issue.

American Standard Version

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Bible in Basic English

He who comes from heaven is greater than all others: he who comes from earth is of the earth, and of the earth are his words: he who comes from heaven is over all.

Complete Jewish Bible

"He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the earth is from the earth and talks from an earthly point of view; he who comes from heaven is above all.

Douay-Rheims

He that cometh from above is above all. He that is of the earth, of the earth he is, and of the earth he speaketh. He that cometh from heaven is above all.

English Standard Version

He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.

Good News Translation

He who comes from above is greater than all. He who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly matters, but he who comes from heaven is above all.

Hebrew Names Version

He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the Eretz belongs to the Eretz, and speaks of the Eretz. He who comes from heaven is above all.

King James Version

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

New American Standard

"He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

New King James Version

He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

New Living Translation

"He has come from above and is greater than anyone else. I am of the earth, and my understanding is limited to the things of earth, but he has come from heaven.

Revised Standard Version

He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth belongs to the earth, and of the earth he speaks; he who comes from heaven is above all.

The Darby Translation

He who comes from above is above all. He who has his origin in the earth is of the earth, and speaks [as] of the earth. He who comes out of heaven is above all,

The Webster Bible

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Third Millennium Bible

"He that cometh from above is above all; he that is of the earth is earthly and speaketh of the earth. He that cometh from Heaven is above all.

Tyndale

He that commeth from an hye is above all: He that is of ye erth is of the erth and speaketh

Weymouth New Testament

He who comes from above is above all. He whose origin is from the earth is not only himself from the earth, his teaching also is from the earth. He who comes from Heaven is above all.

World English Bible

He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the Earth belongs to the Earth, and speaks of the Earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

Wycliffe

He that came from above, is above all; he that is of the earth, speaketh of the earth; he that cometh from heaven, is above all.

Y

oung's Literal Translation

he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all.

How many preexisted? One. And who are from the earth? And who are the ones who belong and speak as one from the earth? Everyone else.

Notice that your "one" is not found in any of those translations.

No, the Bible does state rather plainly that Jesus is the only preexistent one.

No, it doesn't.

The context is resurrection, but Paul makes a connection and a correlation to what we are talking about here.

Yes, the context is the resurrection of the physical body. And it does not apply to what we are talking about here.

Notice it states rather clearly that Adam was from the dust of the earth. And Jesus was from heaven, the same thing that John is saying.

See above.

Further, he states that everyone on the earth is not preexistent, because they are also from the earth like Adam.

Again, it doesn't say that at all. You are just reading that into it something that is not there.

Also note verse 49.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We, pre-existed as spirits, and, like Jesus, "have borne the image of the earthly."

 

So as far as your accusation of ripping things out of context? Not at all.

See above.

[danielwoods]

This is seriously your argument? Seriously? I mean if nothing is going to back up our position it is this verse that you just trotted out. Ill show you.

 

Are you going to go to heaven? Is any one that lived on this Earth going to be saved? The answer is Yes. So by your logic that person must have come from heaven to go into heaven. For it is written in scripture. Or what you are advocating by this verse is that no one can go to heaven because only Jesus came from heaven. I think you need to look at the context of this verse. You will discover that your interpretation has serious implications for your theology. So no, this is not a "pretty clear statement".

 

 

The context of these verse suggest how one is saved. What this verse means is that only Christ, he was the only one that came down that was able to go back up because he did not need to be saved. He was perfect. This verse is not saying that "Only the Son of Man pre existed".

 

 

What the verse states (and the others I referenced) is that only Jesus is from above. I'm interested in what it says. If I have any agenda that's it. What is the truth. 

 

Jesus is saying that only he himself, has come from heaven (or above), not anyone else. Are believers going to Heaven? Of course, by the grace and power of Christ alone. We didn't come from heaven, that was his point. We came from the Earth. If it weren't so, don't you think he would have taught us that? 

[Vance]

So, inorder to make your case, you have to read into the scripture what isn't there?

So, now you are going to complain about me using your tactics? Interesting.

It simply doesn't say, "God places the (pre-existing) spirit into the body."

Neither does it say, "God places the (non-existing) spirit into the body."

Nor does it say, "After God created the body, He created the spirit to place within it to make it a living soul."

So, you have to put a lot more into that verse to get it to mean what you want, than I do to get it to mean what it says.

What it actually says, is Adam (notice his name is used) became a living being. If there's any confusion, notice what Genesis 1:1 states. "In the beginning God…"

This doesn't support your argument, there are two creation stories in Genesis. The first was the spiritual creation and the second is the physical creation.

There is not sense of others in the beginning with God (and for those who don't believe in the Trinity, the reference to God is all three in the Godhead).

See above.

 

We don't disagree that the body without the spirit is dead. Where we disagree is the idea that the spirit was preexistent because there's isn't even one reference to it being the case.

You have been shown several verse which clearly imply our pre-existence.

[danielwoods]

Well, let's look at the whole verse.

American Standard Version

And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, [even] the Son of man, who is in heaven.

Douay-Rheims

And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

Hebrew Names Version

No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.

King James Version

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

New King James Version

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

New Living Translation

For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.

The Darby Translation

And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven.

The Webster Bible

And no man hath ascended to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man who is in heaven.

Third Millennium Bible

And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

Tyndale

And no man ascendeth vp to heaven but he that came doune from heaven that is to saye the sonne of man which is in heaven.

Weymouth New Testament

There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven.

World English Bible

No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.

Wycliffe

And no man ascendeth [up] into heaven, but he that came down from heaven, man's Son that is in heaven. [And no man ascendeth into heaven, no but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven.]

Young's Literal Translation

and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

So, if we take this whole verse as being literal, we would have to call Jesus an obvious liar.

1) He had not ascended up into heaven.

2) He was not "in heaven".

There is, obviously, a problem with the transmission of what Jesus actually said/meant in this verse.

Not a good verse to base your whole argument on.

First I haven't based my whole argument on this verse.

Second, even considering the "whole" verse it doesn't change the truth of his statement.

Third, Jesus also said, "before Abraham was, I AM" which is also a difficult passage for those who believe that Jesus wasn't infinite God at the same time he was on the Earth. So, no this isn't a problem to understand either.

 

1) This is John the Baptist speaking.

2) It doesn't support your claim.

3) Is the one who comes from above, above God, the Father?

Just a translation issue.

American Standard Version

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Bible in Basic English

He who comes from heaven is greater than all others: he who comes from earth is of the earth, and of the earth are his words: he who comes from heaven is over all.

Complete Jewish Bible

"He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the earth is from the earth and talks from an earthly point of view; he who comes from heaven is above all.

Douay-Rheims

He that cometh from above is above all. He that is of the earth, of the earth he is, and of the earth he speaketh. He that cometh from heaven is above all.

English Standard Version

He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.

Good News Translation

He who comes from above is greater than all. He who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly matters, but he who comes from heaven is above all.

Hebrew Names Version

He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the Eretz belongs to the Eretz, and speaks of the Eretz. He who comes from heaven is above all.

King James Version

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

New American Standard

"He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

New King James Version

He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

New Living Translation

"He has come from above and is greater than anyone else. I am of the earth, and my understanding is limited to the things of earth, but he has come from heaven.

Revised Standard Version

He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth belongs to the earth, and of the earth he speaks; he who comes from heaven is above all.

The Darby Translation

He who comes from above is above all. He who has his origin in the earth is of the earth, and speaks [as] of the earth. He who comes out of heaven is above all,

The Webster Bible

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

Third Millennium Bible

"He that cometh from above is above all; he that is of the earth is earthly and speaketh of the earth. He that cometh from Heaven is above all.

Tyndale

He that commeth from an hye is above all: He that is of ye erth is of the erth and speaketh

Weymouth New Testament

He who comes from above is above all. He whose origin is from the earth is not only himself from the earth, his teaching also is from the earth. He who comes from Heaven is above all.

World English Bible

He who comes from above is above all. He who is from the Earth belongs to the Earth, and speaks of the Earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.

Wycliffe

He that came from above, is above all; he that is of the earth, speaketh of the earth; he that cometh from heaven, is above all.

Y

oung's Literal Translation

he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all.

Notice that your "one" is not found in any of those translations.

He who is from above is in the singular form. Meaning one.

The reference is obviously Jesus, as that is who the topic was about.

 

No, it doesn't.

Yes, the context is the resurrection of the physical body. And it does not apply to what we are talking about here.

See above.

Again, it doesn't say that at all. You are just reading that into it something that is not there.

Also note verse 49.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

We, pre-existed as spirits, and, like Jesus, "have borne the image of the earthly."

 

See above.

Notice the whole verse all humanity is related to Adam, he became a living being (no preexistence is mentioned), and is from the Earth, just as we all are. So we bear his image, and juxtapose that to the image will we bear in the future (implication is we never had this before).

Sorry, no preexistence is taught in the NT.

Edited November 7, 2014 by danielwoods

[Silhouette]

I would like to voice my very basic and simplistic take on this matter.

Jesus is our Exemplar in all things. He was born, he demonstrated the way we should live, He suffered every possible thing humankind would be plagued with from physical and mental pain, to

temptations, He died as all humans must die, He demonstrated resurrection in that His body was missing from the tomb, He returned to His Heavenly Father....

He demonstrated by example everything humankind must do in order to return to live with Heavenly Father. He had a full understanding of what to demonstrate to us by example so that we could have a pattern to follow.

He went through everything, every process, that we must go through. So given these facts, why is it so hard to comprehend that, since He had a pre-existance, we must also have had. Given Jesus' example on how things ought to be done, it's not a stretch, for me at least, to suppose that if He did it, we must do it too.

I believe we pre-existed as spirits just because Jesus pre-existed as a Spirit. Again, He demonstrated by example that having a pre-existence is just another thing we have to go through as part of the process of returning to Heavenly Father. The "first step" in the entire process, if you will.

I dunno, for me it's not rocket science. If He did it, so too must we.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Silhouette

[cdowis]

OK. but you have modern revelation to guide you.  There are those who accept only the Bible.  For example, Jesus is "one substance" with the Father, so we can't literally follow Christ's example, unless you are also one substance.  

 

You just don't understand what the Bible teaches unless you have theologians and philosophers to guide you.

Edited November 7, 2014 by cdowis

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What the verse states (and the others I referenced) is that only Jesus is from above. I'm interested in what it says. If I have any agenda that's it. What is the truth. 

 

Jesus is saying that only he himself, has come from heaven (or above), not anyone else. Are believers going to Heaven? Of course, by the grace and power of Christ alone. We didn't come from heaven, that was his point. We came from the Earth. If it weren't so, don't you think he would have taught us that? 

Come on Dan you are not even trying. If we take that verse to be talking about a pre existence and only those that came from heaven can return to heaven we are all doomed. Since according to you we did not come from heaven. You are equivocating here.

 

What is the context of John 3? Is it about a pre existence? 

Edited November 7, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Silhouette]

OK. but you have modern revelation to guide you. There are those who accept only the Bible. For example, Jesus is "one substance" with the Father, so we can't literally follow Christ's example, unless you are also one substance.

You just don't understand what the Bible teaches unless you have theologians and philosophers to guide you.

Actually I believed in the pre-existence before I became a member of the Church and had "modern revelation". The concept simply made sense to me. But then I've always been guided by the Spirit in things, and things were revealed to me through personal revelation before I joined the Church. That's the whole reason I called without ever having heard of a Mormon before. When I prayed, it was revealed to me that I ought to call the Church.

In like manner, I have been guided ever since I was a small child, so I knew about the concept of pre-existence before it was ever taught to me by the missionaries. Then when I heard about it, I was able to readily accept it because I already had a testimony of it.

Regarding the "one substance" aspect....why can we not also be of one substance with God? After all, we are His children, and Jesus is our Elder Brother. It seems to me that there would be similar familial traits, both physical and spiritual, in all of us.

By the way, your comment about not understanding the Bible unless there were philosophers and theologians teaching it seems rather condescending, if the "you" in it was directed specifically at me. I'm hoping you meant the comment in a general sense to include everybody...

Edited November 7, 2014 by Silhouette

[danielwoods]

He went through everything, every process, that we must go through. So given these facts, why is it so hard to comprehend that, since He had a pre-existance, we must also have had. Given Jesus' example on how things ought to be done, it's not a stretch, for me at least, to suppose that if He did it, we must do it too.

I believe we pre-existed as spirits just because Jesus pre-existed as a Spirit. Again, He demonstrated by example that having a pre-existence is just another thing we have to go through as part of the process of returning to Heavenly Father. The "first step" in the entire process, if you will.

I dunno, for me it's not rocket science. If He did it, so too must we.

You don't believe that we must die on a cross for everyone's sins do you? If not, then we don't do everything he did.

The simple fact is that the NT doesn't teach that we were preexistent, only Christ was because he was/is infinite God, and we are not.

 

[danielwoods]

Come on Dan you are not even trying. If we take that verse to be talking about a pre existence and only those that came from heaven can return to heaven we are all doomed. Since according to you we did not come from heaven. You are equivocating here.

 

What is the context of John 3? Is it about a pre existence? 

 

What the context says is that we are from the Earth, and he is from Heaven. 

 

How do you interpret that? 

[Silhouette]

You don't believe that we must die on a cross for everyone's sins do you? If not, then we don't do everything he did.

The simple fact is that the NT doesn't teach that we were preexistent, only Christ was because he was/is infinite God, and we are not.

I was speaking of the spiritual preparations we all must make in order to return to our Heavenly Father. Death is one of those things. I was not speaking of the METHOD of death, and I expect you knew that.

The point I was making was that He died, therefore we all must die because that is the pattern He set for us to follow.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Silhouette

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What the context says is that we are from the Earth, and he is from Heaven. 

 

How do you interpret that? 

That is what John chapter 3 is about? Really? See you are not really trying here. What are the first 12 verses about?

[danielwoods]

That is what John chapter 3 is about? Really? See you are not really trying here. What are the first 12 verses about?

 

It appears that you don't want to deal with what it says. Here lets look at it. 

 

John 3:26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him. 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

 

So, you want to talk about the first 12 verses, which are about salvation. In this section John is describing who Jesus is and where he comes from. I asked you how you interpret it? You didn't answer. 

 

Notice also it states, "He testifies to what he has seen and heard..." Yet for some reason in the LDS version of our preexistence, we have no memories of it... curious huh? 

[Tacenda]

 

It appears that you don't want to deal with what it says. Here lets look at it. 

 

John 3:26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him. 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.

 

So, you want to talk about the first 12 verses, which are about salvation. In this section John is describing who Jesus is and where he comes from. I asked you how you interpret it? You didn't answer. 

 

Notice also it states, "He testifies to what he has seen and heard..." Yet for some reason in the LDS version of our preexistence, we have no memories of it... curious huh? 

I've brought things up before, and am left hanging also. 

[cdowis]

 

Notice also it states, "He testifies to what he has seen and heard..." Yet for some reason in the LDS version of our preexistence, we have no memories of it... curious huh? 

 

Again, you have stumbled upon the truth.  The Lord put a veil of forgetfulness of our prior life, in order to give us free choice between good and evil here in mortality.   But, on special occasions, the Lord can lift that veil and we can have flashes of memory of that previous life.

 

There are those who have a memory, an impression by the Holy Spirit,  of being taught the Plan of Salvation when they hear it here in mortality for the first time.  This  happened to me, and I cherish that memory as a special gift from a loving Father.

Edited November 8, 2014 by cdowis

[Tacenda]

I would like to voice my very basic and simplistic take on this matter.

Jesus is our Exemplar in all things. He was born, he demonstrated the way we should live, He suffered every possible thing humankind would be plagued with from physical and mental pain, to

temptations, He died as all humans must die, He demonstrated resurrection in that His body was missing from the tomb, He returned to His Heavenly Father....

He demonstrated by example everything humankind must do in order to return to live with Heavenly Father. He had a full understanding of what to demonstrate to us by example so that we could have a pattern to follow.

He went through everything, every process, that we must go through. So given these facts, why is it so hard to comprehend that, since He had a pre-existance, we must also have had. Given Jesus' example on how things ought to be done, it's not a stretch, for me at least, to suppose that if He did it, we must do it too.

I believe we pre-existed as spirits just because Jesus pre-existed as a Spirit. Again, He demonstrated by example that having a pre-existence is just another thing we have to go through as part of the process of returning to Heavenly Father. The "first step" in the entire process, if you will.

I dunno, for me it's not rocket science. If He did it, so too must we.

Bold Mine

 

The LDS belief of a pre-existence isn't all that unique, I guess I thought it was, silly me.  I c/p this link because it has Garth Brooks singing a song that mentions our spirits before we came to earth. 

http://tasteofcountry.com/garth-brooks-mom-good-morning-america-video/

[danielwoods]

I've brought things up before, and am left hanging also. 

 

It happens. When people don't have an answer sometimes they just don't reply. I thought the link you shared to Jesus being the only priest of our salvation was mind blowing! (yet no one replied)

[danielwoods]

Again, you have stumbled upon the truth.  The Lord put a veil of forgetfulness of our prior life, in order to give us free choice between good and evil here in mortality.   But, on special occasions, the Lord can lift that veil and we can have flashes of memory of that previous life.

 

There are those who have a memory, an impression by the Holy Spirit,  of being taught the Plan of Salvation when they hear it here in mortality for the first time.  This  happened to me, and I cherish that memory as a special gift from a loving Father.

 

I've heard lots of stories of past lives. I don't believe a one of them. Sorry. It's not taught in the NT. 

 

The fact that we don't recall our preexistence is evidence that we didn't preexist like Christ did. 

Edited November 8, 2014 by danielwoods