Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[cdowis]

Well, the Biblical Jesus, the one you supposedly believe in, didn't always have "all power".  For the Bible says,(Matt 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

 

 

"given unto me...."  You might find it interesting who gave Him this power ==>> Hebrews 1: 1-2, where the Father gave Christ the power and authority to create all things.  Also John 17:19-23 where Christ was given his glory from the Father (verse 22).

 

Christ always deferred to the authority of the Father, "Thy will, not mine, be done."

Edited August 31, 2014 by cdowis

[Calm]

Can and cap, we have some wonderful nonLDS posters who add a lot to the board by informing us about their own faith and seeing how it works out in their lives and they manage to do it without attempting to proselyte or to attack another's faith. And instead of causing their faith to lose credibility they increase respect for it and interest as well. In fact one poster's example (Rory) has over the years convinced me that if I am wrong, that the best choice will not to be leave religion all together but to embrace his faith of Catholicism, perhaps Orthodox though since another poster has taught doctrine of that which resonates with me as well.

So if you are here to help bring LDS to the light,then be one and avoid the contention and ridicule. If you are here to prove your faith is that LDS are going to hell, fine, we accept that is your belief and you can quit wasting yours and ours time and either talk about something else or go find someone else who actually appreciates the brimstone act.

Edited August 31, 2014 by calmoriah

[halconero]

If what you say is true--that the concept of the Trinity is an extra Biblical standard--why do you think that any Christian would believe in the Trinity?

Well, the Catholics and the Orthodox shouldn't have any problem. They believe in apostolic succession and that the Bishops and Church Fathers had the same authority as the apostles to establish and formulate doctrine.

It's the Protestants who have cut themselves off from the tradition of apostolic succession and authority who have painted themselves into the corner of "sola scriptura" when asked to defend the Trinity.

[Storm Rider]

There really is a simple way to learn from one another and strengthen each other's faith.  When there is a sincere, mutual respect for the beliefs of each other we can find what brings us together and strengthen those bonds and also identify what separates us, but does not destroy our relationship as fellow disciples of Jesus Christ, followers of God, or simply people of faith.  

 

What absolutely does not work is ignorance of the teachings of another's church and attempting to condemn doctrines that don't exist.  I would guess that these most recent contributors a sensing a wide range of feelings, but the objective is that they learn that we actually are students of Bible and know it; we are students of history and know it; and we are people of faith.  Come here, ask questions, share your own story without any need, desire, or attempt to destroy the beliefs of others.  Let the Holy Spirit guide.  It will be interesting to see how all of us actually experience becoming one.  It may very well not work for some who call themselves Christians.  

[Canadaigua]

Please do not pretend that you know or understand "the Mormon belief" in this regard.  

 

My statement was in response to a prior post. But to be fair to you tell me what you believe in this "regard" since it is directly relevant to this thread.  Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have always been God (or a God) or do you believe that they became a God at some point in their eternal progression?

[Canadaigua]

You didn't answer my question but just told us what we believe. That is against board rules btw.

Try again with just addressing my question please.

 

You didn't answer my question but just told us what we believe. That is against board rules btw.

Try again with just addressing my question please.

Look again at my post (#340), I answered your question.  Here was my answer again.  

 

"Jesus who was always God in contrast to the Mormon belief that Jesus wasn't alway God (or a God) but became one at some point during his eternal progression."

 

Christians believe that Jesus has always been God.

[Vance]

Jesus who was always God . . .

CFR!

[Vance]

Christians believe that Jesus has always been God.

CFR!

[Canadaigua]

CFR!

The fact that you want a reference for my statement, "Christians believe that Jesus has always been God", implies that you believe that Jesus has not always been God.  Is that a fair assessment?

[Canadaigua]

He said we believed in the biblical Jesus. I guess that means you don't.

You should probably go back and read his quote again because that is not what he said.  If you do decide to look at it provide a quote on this thread so we can discuss it--since it is key to the discussion on this thread.

[Tsuzuki]

Strictly speaking, the only thing you have to do to be a Christian is follow Christ. You technically don't even have to believe that he was divine at all, and many of his disciples didn't believe that when he alive on Earth.

[Vance]

The fact that you want a reference for my statement, "Christians believe that Jesus has always been God", implies that you believe that Jesus has not always been God.  Is that a fair assessment?

That is not an answer to my CFR.  Either provide the reference or admit that you can't provide it..

[Vance]

President Gordon B Hinckley stated that LDS believe in a different Jesus than Christians.

Why is it that you antis don't believe in being accurate in your statements?

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley, responding to a question regarding whether Latter-day Saints believe in the “traditional Christ,” stated:

No I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times.

 

President Hinckley is referring to the concept of Christ that has developed in the centuries since the Nicene Creed was formed—He is saying that we do not believe in non-Biblical creeds. This statement is quite correct: Latter-day Saints do not have some of the same beliefs about Christ that other Christian churches do. He is not saying that we do not believe in the Biblical Christ. In fact, the reason that Latter-day Saints do not accept these creeds is because they are non-Biblical.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Vance

[cdowis]

My statement was in response to a prior post. But to be fair to you tell me what you believe in this "regard" since it is directly relevant to this thread.  Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have always been God (or a God) or do you believe that they became a God at some point in their eternal progression?

 

You first  ==>> explain "one substance", tell us about the development of the Nicene Creed, was it accepted by everyone in the Council of Nicea, tell us about the role of the Emperor Constantine.  

 

Be prepared to answer questions.

 

Now, I'm sure that, even after multiple posts, we will get nowhere.  Each of us comes to this doctrine with different assumptions and even different word definitions.   Our interpretation of scriptures are based on those assumptions and definitions.

 

I could give you a short answer your question == it is "yes" and "no". I understand the answer myself, but I can't craft an answer that would make sense to you.   We just don't speak the same language, so to speak.

Edited August 31, 2014 by cdowis

[Canadaigua]

That is not an answer to my CFR.  Either provide the reference or admit that you can't provide it..

Psalm 90

1 1. Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.

2 2. Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

 

Perhaps you could answer my question.  Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have not always been God (or a God)?

[Canadaigua]

You first  ==>> explain "one substance", tell us about the development of the Nicene Creed, was it accepted by everyone in the Council of Nicea, tell us about the role of the Emperor Constantine.  

 

Be prepared to answer questions.

 

Now, I'm sure that, even after multiple posts, we will get nowhere.  Each of us comes to this doctrine with different assumptions and even different word definitions.   Our interpretation of scriptures are based on those assumptions and definitions.

 

I could give you a short answer your question == it is "yes" and "no". I understand the answer myself, but I can't craft an answer that would make sense to you.   We just don't speak the same language, so to speak.

The Nicene Creed is not scripture and therefore not the basis for my beliefs nor the belief of other Christians that I know.  

 

Now that I addressed your attempt to redirect the conversion could you address my question that I asked you in a prior post?  Here it is again.

 

Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have always been God (or a God) or do you believe that they became a God at some point in their eternal progression?

[Canadaigua]

Why is it that you antis don't believe in being accurate in your statements?

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley, responding to a question regarding whether Latter-day Saints believe in the “traditional Christ,” stated:

No I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times.

 

President Hinckley is referring to the concept of Christ that has developed in the centuries since the Nicene Creed was formed—He is saying that we do not believe in non-Biblical creeds. This statement is quite correct: Latter-day Saints do not have some of the same beliefs about Christ that other Christian churches do. He is not saying that we do not believe in the Biblical Christ. In fact, the reason that Latter-day Saints do not accept these creeds is because they are non-Biblical.

Can you tell me what is President Hinckley meant when he said "For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times"?

[Vance]

Psalm 90

1 1. Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.

2 2. Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

 

Perhaps you could answer my question.  Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have not always been God (or a God)?

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the CFR either.  No where it that does it say that "Christians believe that Jesus has always been God". Nor is it a required interpretation, especially in light of post 349.  "Everlasting" doesn't mean what you think it means.  Also, you can't show that it is referring to Jesus, rather than the Father.

 

So, again, provide a reference or retract your statement. This is your third chance.

[Vance]

Can you tell me what is President Hinckley meant when he said "For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times"?

 

You will have to explain why, exactly, that this is a problem.  The true knowledge of Jesus Christ was lost to the world, so the only way to really know the true Jesus was for it to be restored through revelation in this dispensation.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Vance

[Vance]

The Nicene Creed is not scripture and therefore not the basis for my beliefs nor the belief of other Christians that I know. 

And yet you and the other Christians you know, swallow the Catholic originated doctrine of the Trinity, right?

 

Explain why that is.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Vance

[Canadaigua]

Sorry, but that doesn't answer the CFR either.  No where it that does it say that "Christians believe that Jesus has always been God". Nor is it a required interpretation, especially in light of post 349.  "Everlasting" doesn't mean what you think it means.  Also, you can't show that it is referring to Jesus, rather than the Father.

 

So, again, provide a reference or retract your statement. This is your third chance.

Actually I did answer your question.  The basis for Christian beliefs is from scripture--thus a reference would logical be from scripture.  Here was my reply again.

 

Psalm 90

1. Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.

2. Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

 

Since this is a vital point with respect to this thread could you provide me with an answer to my question that I have asked you in a prior post?

 

Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have not always been God (or a God)?

[Canadaigua]

And yet you and the other Christians you know, swallow the Catholic originated doctrine of the Trinity, right?

 

Explain why that is.

The basis for the Trinity is not from the Catholic church nor from extra Biblical sources which you incorrectly assume but rather from the Bible itself.  

[Canadaigua]

You will have to explain why, exactly, that this is a problem.  The true knowledge of Jesus Christ was lost to the world, so the only way to really know the true Jesus was for it to be restored through revelation in this dispensation.

Can you tell me what is President Hinckley meant when he said "For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times"?

 

Go back and read your own statement again and perhaps you will realize that the Mormon Jesus is not the same as the Biblical Jesus.

[Vance]

Actually I did answer your question.  The basis for Christian beliefs is from scripture--thus a reference would logical be from scripture.  Here was my reply again.

 

Psalm 90

1. Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.

2. Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

 

Since this is a vital point with respect to this thread could you provide me with an answer to my question that I have asked you in a prior post?

 

Do you believe that Jesus and the Father have not always been God (or a God)?

This does not address the CFR.

 

1)  You can't show that this scripture is referring to "Jesus".

 

2)  You can't show that this scripture is referring to "always".

 

Now, you can admit that is only your opinion that this verse is referring to both of those, if you like.  But is doesn't support your claim as it was written.

 

So, either provide a verse that clearly states what you claim or retract your statement as being fact rather than merely opinion.

[Vance]

The basis for the Trinity is not from the Catholic church nor from extra Biblical sources which you incorrectly assume but rather from the Bible itself.  

False. The doctrine of the trinity was established by the Catholic Church.  It is nowhere found in the Bible.