Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

Flyonthewall · January 16, 2015

Since the trinity concept is taught in the NT it is in the Bible.

You say it is but I have not seen it.

As for evidence of the apostasy and restoration. You are correct, that what the LDS believes to be evidence has been looked at. It doesn't amount to what is claimed. Yes this is my opinion.

I understand there are those that disagree.

Vance · January 16, 2015

There are corrupt leaders on occasion, this doesn't mean the whole church has apostatized. The claim to apostasy is something lost. What was lost?

Apostles and prophets as clearly described here,

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

And where's the evidence that it was lost?

Rather obvious, don't you think.

danielwoods · January 16, 2015

Apostles and prophets as clearly described here,
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Rather obvious, don't you think.

I don't disagree with the quote. Jesus gave us all we need according to Peter.

As for a need for restoration, no not even close to obvious.

danielwoods · January 16, 2015

You say it is but I have not seen it.

I understand there are those that disagree.

A good video I saw answers some of the questions we've been talking about here.

http://conservativevideos.com/former-muslims-fantastic-response-christianity-challenged-practicing-muslim/

ERayR · January 16, 2015

There are corrupt leaders on occasion, this doesn't mean the whole church has apostatized. The claim to apostasy is something lost. What was lost? And where's the evidence that it was lost?

Valid Priesthood authority.

danielwoods · January 16, 2015

Valid Priesthood authority.

So, that's the claim by the LDS, yes. Where's the evidence?

ERayR · January 16, 2015

So, that's the claim by the LDS, yes. Where's the evidence?

Personal revelation. Ask and ye shall receive.

danielwoods · January 16, 2015

Personal revelation. Ask and ye shall receive.

Did that. Received the opposite answer that the LDS claim. Therefore no restoration is needed.

ERayR · January 16, 2015

Did that. Received the opposite answer that the LDS claim. Therefore no restoration is needed.

Go with it it is your decision. The consequences are yours. My conscience is clear, I warned you.

Edited January 16, 2015 by ERayR

danielwoods · January 16, 2015

Go with it it is your decision. The consequences are yours. My conscience is clear, I warned you.

Since there's no evidence (beyond the claimed personal witness, of which I have the opposite), there is no need for a warning. I appreciate the thought though.

Vance · January 16, 2015

I don't disagree with the quote.

So, then you agree that apostles and prophets were to remain "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"?

Jesus gave us all we need according to Peter.

Nah, that is just you deceiving yourself into believing that is what Peter said. He didn't mean what you claim.

As for a need for restoration, no not even close to obvious.

To the willfully blind, I suppose not.

danielwoods · January 17, 2015

So, then you agree that apostles and prophets were to remain "till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"?

Nah, that is just you deceiving yourself into believing that is what Peter said. He didn't mean what you claim.

To the willfully blind, I suppose not.

I agree yes, but I don't agree that the LDS apostles and prophets are filling those roles.

Never mind Peter's statement... it's not true:

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue" (2 Peter 1:3)

And don't look at what Paul said either.

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ." (Ephesians 1:3)

Vance · January 17, 2015

I agree yes, but I don't agree that the LDS apostles and prophets are filling those roles.

It isn't that you need to accept the LDS apostles and prophets in those roles, but you should at least acknowledge that those roles were lost to the ancient church and are still missing in yours. Thus clearly indicating apostasy from the ancient church.

Never mind Peter's statement... it's not true:

On the contrary, it is true, it just doesn't mean what you think.

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue" (2 Peter 1:3)

Peter (an apostle and prophet) was speaking of the Ancient Church, NOT the apostate organization that was left with the disappearance of the Apostles.

In summary, you are not included in the "us" of that verse.

And don't look at what Paul said either.
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ." (Ephesians 1:3)

See above.

danielwoods · January 17, 2015

It isn't that you need to accept the LDS apostles and prophets in those roles, but you should at least acknowledge that those roles were lost to the ancient church and are still missing in yours. Thus clearly indicating apostasy from the ancient church.

On the contrary, it is true, it just doesn't mean what you think.

Peter (an apostle and prophet) was speaking of the Ancient Church, NOT the apostate organization that was left with the disappearance of the Apostles.

In summary, you are not included in the "us" of that verse.

See above.

Indeed, the church didn't lose those roles, so I guess there was no apostasy after all.

And it doesn't say what you added. Rather, both Peter and Paul are speaking to believers of any race, age or time.

coolrok7 · January 17, 2015

It's a twisting of Scripture as Mormons do often.

"Some will fall away" according to the Holy Spirit through Paul, not a "complete" "total" apostasy as in the pamphlets by the Mormon Church.

Vance · January 17, 2015

Indeed, the church didn't lose those roles, so I guess there was no apostasy after all.

Then where are the Apostles and prophets? Are we in a unity of the faith? No! Those roles were to be filled until there was unity. They don't exist in your church because your church is in apostasy.

And it doesn't say what you added. Rather, both Peter and Paul are speaking to believers of any race, age or time.

And this is were you are wrong.

Peter wrote to "them that have obtained like precious faith with us". Notice the past tense?

Paul wrote to "to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:" Obviously talking to people living at the time, which doesn't include you.

Vance · January 17, 2015

It's a twisting of Scripture as Mormons do often.
"Some will fall away" according to the Holy Spirit through Paul, not a "complete" "total" apostasy as in the pamphlets by the Mormon Church.

Act 20:28 ¶ Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

What part of "not sparing the flock" is so difficult to understand?

Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jesus is the mediator of a better (everlasting) covenant.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Vance

Flyonthewall · January 17, 2015

There is also Amos 8

¶Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

Anakin7 · January 17, 2015

Coolrok when I open the telephone book to choose a church to attend on Sunday among dozens I see the apostacy.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

Edited January 17, 2015 by Anakin7

StJude · January 18, 2015

Act 20:28 ¶ Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

What part of "not sparing the flock" is so difficult to understand?

Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.
4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Jesus is the mediator of a better (everlasting) covenant.

No sparing the flock means that the Christians were not going to be safe from false prophets. It didn't say, and no where in the Bible does it say, that everyone would fall away...a complete apostasy as you would put it. Not to mention, the Bible says that it will happen in the end of days or "latter days". The second and third centuries were not the latter days.

Conversely, in Matthew 16:18, 28:20, John 14:16, 14:26 and 16:13 say that the gates of hell will not prevail against His church and that He would send the Holy Spirit to be with it until the end of the world. If the gates of hell won't prevail then there couldn't possibly be a complete apostasy.

In John 14:16 - 18 Jesus promised not to leave us as orphans.

If LDS teaching is correct, then not only was Jesus wrong about the gates of hell not prevailing against His church, He also left us as orphans for 1700 years!

The Church was created with the perfect plan of God and it was His Will that it Epps remain until the return of the Son of God. How then could it possibly have failed? Either God can't do what He says He can do, or He can. If He can't, then Mormons are right. If He can, then His Church, the Catholic Church, which can trace its roots in an unbroken chain to the apostles and therefore the authority which He gave them, is right.

And in 1 Timothy 3:15 we see that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth!

Anakin7 · January 18, 2015

It's to bad our Catholic friend and supporter David Waltz is not here to share his thoughts once again. He was a real Christlike/Charitabe individual.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

Anakin7 · January 18, 2015

Of note I find it interesting that Mormonism and Catholicism are found on the non Christian cult section on shelves of Protestant Bookstores.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

StJude · January 18, 2015

Of note I find it interesting that Mormonism and Catholicism are found on the non Christian cult section on shelves of Protestant Bookstores.

In His Debt/Grace
Anakin7

At least they have our books now! Lol

Anakin7 · January 18, 2015

Not our Books but anti LDS/Catholic polemical books fon anti cult ministries/publishers.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

StJude · January 18, 2015

I know. I made the mistake of walking in to one and asking if they had rosaries. You should have seen the looks I got.

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