why me Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27708734 Could the Catholic Church trademark a crucifix? Could the Jewish faith corner the market on the Star of David?Obviously not, since the symbols of these thousands-of-years-old religions are firmly in the public domain. But what about a newer faith, established in a time of more robust intellectual property protections?This is the gist of the debate going on in Texas, where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) is currently waging a legal battle with a dating site called Mormon Match over its use of the word "Mormon".Intellectual Reserve Inc., the holding company for the LDS church, has a trademark on the word, as well as "Book of Mormon", "Mormon.org", "Mormon Tabernacle Choir", "The Mormon Church", "Mormon handicraft" and an outline of the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City, Utah.The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) - which bills itself as "the leading non-profit organisation defending civil liberties in the digital world" - filed a friend-of-the-court brief last week in support of Jonathan Eller, the founder of Texas-based Mormon Match, as he tries to get a federal judge to permit him to use the word."The name of this service simply describes what it's doing - matching up Mormons," EFF's Corynne McSherry said in a statement. "Trademarks are supposed to be used to protect from unfair competition, not to stifle a small business or to control language."Eric Hawkins, an LDS spokesperson, presented the church's position in a statement to ABC News:We have made repeated attempts to resolve the issue without litigation, as we have in many comparable disputes over the years, including similar trademark applications. The objection of the church is that a for-profit business is trying to deceptively capitalise on the church's name and image to promote a product that has no affiliation with the church. By attempting to trademark the name, the group seeks to claim exclusive rights to use a term that is clearly associated with the church."When is a Mormon not a Mormon?" asks the consumerist's Kate Cos. "When he's a 'Mormon (trademark).'"Jezebel's Kelly Faircloth says that it seems the LDS Church doesn't want anyone "making bank" off the Mormon name. She notes that both Mr Eller and his co-founder are Mormons."The next church barbecue is going to be really uncomfortable," she writes.It's not the first time the LDS church has employed its lawyers to battle what it sees as intellectual property infringement. In 2007 it prevented a coffee shop in Utah from printing a likeness of the angel Moroni, whose statue stands atop many Mormon temples, in newspaper adverts."A standard criticism of the church is that it's more a business venture than a religion," writes Religion Dispatches' Holly Welker. "Actions like this lend credibility to the claim, and you'd think the church wouldn't want to make it seem any more valid."According to Ars Technica, a federal judge in Texas will hold a hearing in the Mormon Match case on 8 August. I wonder who is going to win this case. I suppose that the church does have a point. Without control of the name mormon all heck could break loose by people wishing to start companies by using the word 'mormon'. Edited June 6, 2014 by why me
bluebell Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 If the company only wants to use the word because it describes what they do, why are they attempting to trademark it? And FYI-there is a topic on this already in the news forum.
ksfisher Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 "By attempting to trademark the name, the group seeks to claim exclusive rights to use a term that is clearly associated with the church." I wonder if it just used the name Mormon Match, without trying to trademark it, if the church would have any objections.
why me Posted June 6, 2014 Author Posted June 6, 2014 I wonder if it just used the name Mormon Match, without trying to trademark it, if the church would have any objections. Probably not. There are blogs with the term mormon in it. But by trademarking it, it could cause some problems for the lds church. I think that the owners of Mormon Match most likely do not want anyone else to use such a name for a site.
why me Posted June 6, 2014 Author Posted June 6, 2014 If the company only wants to use the word because it describes what they do, why are they attempting to trademark it? And FYI-there is a topic on this already in the news forum.This is much bigger than a news item. It has much to do with the ownership of the word 'mormon'.
toon Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 "By attempting to trademark the name, the group seeks to claim exclusive rights to use a term that is clearly associated with the church." I wonder if it just used the name Mormon Match, without trying to trademark it, if the church would have any objections. I suspect the Church would not. It seems like the Church's position is not that Mormon Match cannot use Mormon in it's name, but rather that Mormon Match should not be able to trademark that name.
bluebell Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 This is much bigger than a news item. It has much to do with the ownership of the word 'mormon'. My point wasn't to debate which forum the thread belongs on, but only to let you know that the topic already existed.
ksfisher Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 This is much bigger than a news item. It has much to do with the ownership of the word 'mormon'.And Mormon Match seems to want to own the word Mormon (or at least a piece of it).
Calm Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 "Jezebel's Kelly Faircloth says that it seems the LDS Church doesn't want anyone "making bank" off the Mormon name"Given how many LDS seem to trust that all things Mormon are somehow honest and ethical and approved by the Church itself, I am actually that this is their approach.
ERayR Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Probably not. There are blogs with the term mormon in it. But by trademarking it, it could cause some problems for the lds church. I think that the owners of Mormon Match most likely do not want anyone else to use such a name for a site. Yes, problems with having to pay royalties to the trademark holder every time it uses it, even to paying royalties on Book of Mormon sales.
Bikeemikey Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I suspect the Church would not. It seems like the Church's position is not that Mormon Match cannot use Mormon in it's name, but rather that Mormon Match should not be able to trademark that name.Trade marking your brand name is standard business practice. Without a trademark protection it is hard to generate value. Trade marking the name mormon match is not a trade mark of the word mormon, simply a trade mark on the term mormon match specifically, also when such a term is used in a business setting. For example using a sentence in general conference that somehow included the words mormon and match next to each other would not be a violation of the trademark.Imagine if Nike was not able to trademark their name. They make great shoes so everyone starts putting the bike name on their shoes... It would be impossible for nike to create the kind of global company based on brand and quality recognition that they have.Likewise, if this mormon match service becomes successful and popular and they have no trademark there is no way to stop others coming in and setting up identical sites with similar urls using identical branding.The church may not have an issue with them using the term mormon match if it is un-trademarked but these guys will have a hard time raising money, generating brand value, and borrowing money etc with out one.
williamsmith Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Hmmm... This is interesting. On one hand I understand the church's point, but on the other hand they are clearly not trying to trademark the name mormon.However, I think what the church is trying to do is to limit others ability to make money of a name that the church itself might want to use or refer to it.Like, the church has a LDS Singles program's, maybe one day they might want to create a singles website, and "mormon" is a word the church owns so "fruits" from that word is something they would have an interest in protecting. BTW, one doesn't have to "Trademark" to protect a brand, they can Copyright it. That wouldn't infring on the church's trademark, but they still have their brand. Let me give an example of what the church is trying to do I believe.If someone came along and wanted to Trademark "Nike Power" or "Coke Splash"..... (assuming these weren't already branded), do you think a company would be allowed to use the word Nike or Coke in those names?Absolutely NOT...... It's clear Trademark law. As much as I can sympathize with the Mormon Match people, that at first look they aren't asking anything unreasonable, but deeper they sadly I don't think have a case, and should lose.Hopefully they will be humble to understand the law in this and not hate the church. Unfortunately, most likely won't, so it looks bad on the church. Edited June 7, 2014 by williamsmith
strappinglad Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 They should just change the spelling to more accurately reflect a true drawl, ie. Marmun Match. Problem solved!
Yirgacheffe Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 There was no complaint from Christians or Catholics when Spark Networks USA registered Christian Mingle or Catholic Mingle, and there were no complaints about LDS Mingle being registered. Isn't lds.org the official church website, shouldn't they be concerned about someone profiting off of a connection to that?
ERayR Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) There was no complaint from Christians or Catholics when Spark Networks USA registered Christian Mingle or Catholic Mingle, and there were no complaints about LDS Mingle being registered. Isn't lds.org the official church website, shouldn't they be concerned about someone profiting off of a connection to that? There is some serious ramification to who and how someone else can use registered trademarks. It depends on what and how it was trademarked. If the term Mormon Match is trademarked as a phrase it would be different than trademarking the word Mormon by itsself. Edited June 7, 2014 by ERayR
Yirgacheffe Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 There is some serious ramification to who and how someone else can use registered trademarks. It depends on what and how it was trademarked. If the term Mormon Match is trademarked as a phrase it would be different than trademarking the word Mormon by itsself.But aren't they trying to trade mark "Mormon Match" or "MormonMatch"?
frank_jessop Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 This is an interesting issue, is it just the word "mormon" or would it also cover "LDS". Would trade marking a name with "LDS" in it also draw concern from Intellectual Reserve Inc?
Bikeemikey Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Hmmm... This is interesting. On one hand I understand the church's point, but on the other hand they are clearly not trying to trademark the name mormon.However, I think what the church is trying to do is to limit others ability to make money of a name that the church itself might want to use or refer to it.Like, the church has a LDS Singles program's, maybe one day they might want to create a singles website, and "mormon" is a word the church owns so "fruits" from that word is something they would have an interest in protecting.BTW, one doesn't have to "Trademark" to protect a brand, they can Copyright it. That wouldn't infring on the church's trademark, but they still have their brand.Let me give an example of what the church is trying to do I believe.If someone came along and wanted to Trademark "Nike Power" or "Coke Splash"..... (assuming these weren't already branded), do you think a company would be allowed to use the word Nike or Coke in those names?Absolutely NOT...... It's clear Trademark law.As much as I can sympathize with the Mormon Match people, that at first look they aren't asking anything unreasonable, but deeper they sadly I don't think have a case, and should lose.Hopefully they will be humble to understand the law in this and not hate the church. Unfortunately, most likely won't, so it looks bad on the church.I think you might be over stating and over simplifying the distinction between trademark and copyright. Also, if coke and nike were terms that also represented a socio-cultural identity and the usage of the phrases you proposed was to meant to indicate a annual water party attended by those identifying as coke (eg. Coke Splash) it would be very hard for coke to restrict both use and trademark.At the root of this question is whether the LDS church owns the term mormon, which is a socio-cultural identity. Remember, your church is not the mormon church, though we are Mormons.Given the church has been consistently arguing that mormon is a statement of identity for those who attend the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints but absolutely distinct from the name of the church it may be an interesting legal case. 1
The Nehor Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 I know the guy fighting the church on this (brother of a friend). He turned down an offered buyout. His lawyer is convinced he can't lose. I don't have much faith in his lawyer.
Yirgacheffe Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 This is an interesting issue, is it just the word "mormon" or would it also cover "LDS". Would trade marking a name with "LDS" in it also draw concern from Intellectual Reserve Inc?Spark Networks registered LDS mingle as a trademark without objection from Intellectual Reserve Inc.
ERayR Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 But aren't they trying to trade mark "Mormon Match" or "MormonMatch"? That to me is unclear but I took it they were trying to trademark the word Mormon. I can also see some concerns with affiliation confusion concerns.
cinepro Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 LDS Singles.com seems to have registered trademarks all over it. http://www.ldssingles.com/ldsso_about.html
Bikeemikey Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) LDS Singles.com seems to have registered trademarks all over it.http://www.ldssingles.com/ldsso_about.htmlI guess we will have to see what happens.The church spent approx 500k fighting a ancestral search business in New Zealand and lost.Guess we will see. Edited June 7, 2014 by Bikeemikey
williamsmith Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 There was no complaint from Christians or Catholics when Spark Networks USA registered Christian Mingle or Catholic Mingle, and there were no complaints about LDS Mingle being registered. Isn't lds.org the official church website, shouldn't they be concerned about someone profiting off of a connection to that? Not at all the same..... Both Christian and Catholic are names in which MANY "Groups" use to refer to themselves, and have forever, well before "Trademarks" existed.Also, LDS isn't the same either, because it's not actually a "name" it's abreviated letters which can refer to many things, thus not trademarkable in the same sense.Thus, you would be wrong.
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