What's The Benefit Of Gospel Knowledge, And More

[stemelbow]

Whatever level of exaltation we want. Everyone will have a full understanding of the Gospel. No one is going to be saved in ignorance, nor is anyone going to be damned in ignorance.

If we'll all have a full understanding, then why make a fuss of knowing it now? We'll all learn at different speeds.

It is a benefit now and in the Resurrection. Any degree of intelligence we obtain in this life will rise with us in the next, and if a man receive more intelligence in this life the better it will be for him in the Resurrection.  Yes we are more privileged above others. For better or worse with that privilege comes tremendous responsibility to help our fellow man become privileged just like we are.

But you are assuming we LDS have more intelligence to carry with us in the next than another. perhaps others have far more intelligence than many to most LDS. There is far more to intelligence then the how's and what's of doctrine, for instance. Perhaps we aren't as privileged as we like to think.

[Ahab]

We can gain knowledge after this life.

Yes and I plan to. Imagining myself in ignorance of most of what I know now would set me back quite a bit, though, and I'm glad that at least I get to keep the knowledge I have.

We don't need to be Mormon to gain much of that knowledge.

I think that shows that you don't know much about what Mormonism is all about, and what it includes. I'd like to see the look on your face when you do know that, if you ever do. When we know everything about it we will know everything God knows about everything while either accepting that knowledge or we will be acting against that knowledge like Satan.

It probably could be shown that plenty of old wise people have a better knowledge of the truths of salvation than many a Mormon. Hell they probably don't even have to be old and wise.

Yes that is true, but now you're talking about a lot of the most ignorant Mormons who don't do much to try to learn what God has revealed to everyone generally.

That's assuming someone who isn't LDS is not also gaining knowledge of salvation during their lives.

If someone who isn't LDS knows as much about salvation as someone who is LDS then the one who isn't LDS will know what he is missing out on while choosing to act against that knowledge anyway, so basically the knowledge will not be being put to good use.

That essentially suggests you cringe at nearly everyone seeing as Mormon makes up about .2% of the population on this planet.

Not quite a correct interpretation of what I was saying. I'm saying I cringe at the idea of being as ignorant about salvation as they are, and as I once was. Edited April 29, 2014 by Ahab

[JLHPROF]

Salvation for all is not a doctrine of the Church, and Exaltation especially isn't. Also, only members of the Lord's Church are saved, whether Latter-day Saints, or those from previous dispensations.

 

Latter-day Saints have the biggest advantage with regards to spiritual knowledge, which is of greatest value.

 

This, exactly.  Our desire to make everyone equal is a kind one, but not doctrinally accurate.

[bluebell]

Perhaps you're right. But perhaps you are wrong. perhaps God wants us to challenge. Perhaps He needs me to reach the low levels of humility and lack self-worth.

 

No, He does not need you to doubt His love for you or His attention to you.    

[JDave]

Salvation for all is not a doctrine of the Church, and Exaltation especially isn't. Also, only members of the Lord's Church are saved, whether Latter-day Saints, or those from previous dispensations.

 

Latter-day Saints have the biggest advantage with regards to spiritual knowledge, which is of greatest value.

It would seem that salvation provided for all is a doctrine of the church.  Each individual can choose to accept or reject the atonement of Jesus Christ.  We will never meet a single person that doesn't have continual access to the atonement. (I'm not really interested in discussing perdition, since outliers are not at all significant)

 

ETA

I think the question in the OP has been more than answered.  The real underlying question is how can God be fair when the best (temporal?) blessings are limited to such a small percentage of the earth's population.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JDave

[halconero]

If you say so. I just don't know that I can buy into these assumptions.

 

I can see why people were "stumped" in EQ...it sounds like they didn't give an answer that satisfied you.

 

There are many scriptures that state what I have said.

[thesometimesaint]

If we'll all have a full understanding, then why make a fuss of knowing it now? We'll all learn at different speeds.

But you are assuming we LDS have more intelligence to carry with us in the next than another. perhaps others have far more intelligence than many to most LDS. There is far more to intelligence then the how's and what's of doctrine, for instance. Perhaps we aren't as privileged as we like to think.

 

Because I can't be saved in ignorance.

 

JS defined intelligence as light and truth. So by definition the Saints are more intelligent.

 

Inarguably some are far more intelligent than I am.

 

The devils know with absolute knowledge that Jesus is the Christ and still tremble. That is why we each will be judged by what we did with what we knew.

All will be taught. But not all will accept it. In my fathers house there are many mansions. 

[stemelbow]

Yes and I plan to. Imagining myself in ignorance of most of what I know now would set me back quite a bit, though, and I'm glad that at least I get to keep the knowledge I have.

There is always someone who knows more.

I think that shows that you don't know much about what Mormonism is all about, and what it includes. I'd like to see the look on your face when you do know that, if you ever do. When we know everything about it we will know everything God knows about everything while either accepting that knowledge or we will be acting against that knowledge like Satan.

You are free to school me some more, because I don't know what you're getting at here. I'd point out in spite of our pride about knowing more than others not of our faith, I think we'll be surprised to learn most on this earth have gained plenty of intelligence, perhaps in many cases more than many a Mormon, through God's other means to dispense eternal truths, which truths they'll be able to carry with them and build upon after this life. Indeed, I'd say we've probably limited ourselves by not being able to open up ourselves to all resources God intends us to use. Its pretty short-sighted, I'd think to assume we are all God has informed.

Yes that is true, but now you're talking about a lot of the most ignorant Mormons who don't do much to try to learn what God has revealed to everyone generally.

Not really. I'm talking about many informed LDS as well.

If someone who isn't LDS knows as much about salvation as someone who is LDS then the one who isn't LDS will know what he is missing out on while choosing to act against that knowledge anyway, so basically the knowledge will not be being put to good use.

Seems rather presumptuous of you to think the above. God works in mysterious ways, always remember.

Not quite a correct interpretation of what I was saying. I'm saying I cringe at the idea of being as ignorant about salvation as they are, and as I once was.

Fair enough. SOrry for the mistake. We all cringe at our past ignorance in many instances. I know I do.

[stemelbow]

ETA

I think the question in the OP has been more than answered.  The real underlying question is how can God be fair when the best (temporal?) blessings are limited to such a small percentage of the earth's population.

I know I frustrate people.

here is a brief summary of the answers to the OP:

-LDS have an open path to salvation--others do not

-LDS have knowledge that we can carry on to the next life, assuming others do not have such knowledge or something else that equates to it.

-LDS receive eternal ordinances, but others will too.

I don't mean to be difficult but each answer appears, at least to me, to have caveats that make the answers not all that helpful. For instance, is it true that only LDS have an open path to Salvation? The Nehor said yes, but with qualifications. I question his answer to that. I think plenty of the exalted will not have been LDS on earth.

I appreciate the answers. I know I would have repeated the same things many times over. But I still question whether there is any real benefit to having gospel knowledge. Perhaps in the end I'll see. I might just have to wait.

[stemelbow]

I can see why people were "stumped" in EQ...it sounds like they didn't give an answer that satisfied you.

 

There are many scriptures that state what I have said.

That's perhaps where our communication problem lies. I don't see truths ending at scripture. There is far more for us to understand, on my view. BUt I appreciate your perspective. I'm just not sure there is good reason to feel privileged because we are LDS.

[thesometimesaint]

There is always someone who knows more.

You are free to school me some more, because I don't know what you're getting at here. I'd point out in spite of our pride about knowing more than others not of our faith, I think we'll be surprised to learn most on this earth have gained plenty of intelligence, perhaps in many cases more than many a Mormon, through God's other means to dispense eternal truths, which truths they'll be able to carry with them and build upon after this life. Indeed, I'd say we've probably limited ourselves by not being able to open up ourselves to all resources God intends us to use. Its pretty short-sighted, I'd think to assume we are all God has informed.

Not really. I'm talking about many informed LDS as well.

Seems rather presumptuous of you to think the above. God works in mysterious ways, always remember.

Fair enough. SOrry for the mistake. We all cringe at our past ignorance in many instances. I know I do.

 

There sure are. Fortunately I'm not going to be judged by what they know.

 

I try to be open to whatever knowledge God has to offer me. I believe he wants me to know everything he does. But I'm presently just a mere mortal and have many a failing. I'm right there with brother Paul when he said he did not do the things he know he should, and did the things he knew he shouldn't.

 

I don't for a moment assume that I know everything that God knows. But I do believe I'm on the correct path to exaltation in his Kingdom.

 

That begs the questions. We don't know what others know. We are all on the quest to see if we will do whatsoever God will command us to do.

 

How did Christ take on the the sins, wounds, hurts, disappointments, bad things in the universe backwards and forwards for all of eternity? I sure don't know. But I am glad he did. My job is to help bring as many souls as I can to accept Christ's wonderful mysterious offer.

[CV75]

I think plenty of the exalted will not have been LDS on earth.

Of course. But what does that have to do with the OP? The blessings of the Gospel in this life are interconnected with the Gospel blessings in the next life. The Gospel blessings in this life are necessary for bringing about the blessings in the blessings in the next life. The Gospel blessings from the next life are introduced into this life only by thsoe who already have them. This is demonstrated by the keys to bind and loose. The Church possesses them to bind on earth and in heaven, but God certainly possesses them in Heaven to bind there and on earth.

[thesometimesaint]

I know I frustrate people.

here is a brief summary of the answers to the OP:

-LDS have an open path to salvation--others do not

-LDS have knowledge that we can carry on to the next life, assuming others do not have such knowledge or something else that equates to it.

-LDS receive eternal ordinances, but others will too.

I don't mean to be difficult but each answer appears, at least to me, to have caveats that make the answers not all that helpful. For instance, is it true that only LDS have an open path to Salvation? The Nehor said yes, but with qualifications. I question his answer to that. I think plenty of the exalted will not have been LDS on earth.

I appreciate the answers. I know I would have repeated the same things many times over. But I still question whether there is any real benefit to having gospel knowledge. Perhaps in the end I'll see. I might just have to wait.

 

You're not frustrating me.

 

There is but one path that leads to Eternal Life. ALL must get on that path or be damned.

Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and there be but few that find it, in this life.

Only LDS receive those ordinances.

 

Only LDS have the authority to be on the path.

 

No one here has said that only LDS in this life will be exalted in the next.

 

Do you want some of the rewards now and the greatest later, or do want to wait and see if those rewards are available to you later?

[Ahab]

Well I hate to beat the dead horse but apostles and prophets have also taught things that are generally considered false these days. It doesn't seem to add up at all to me. If we are but .2% of the population of this earth, most currently don't know anything about us at all now and mostly because of circumstance, why would they be so disadvantaged to have to wait until another sphere of existence to accept when in that sphere it'll be way harder than it is on this earth? Seems to me, if that were true, Heavenly Father would have favorites, and the bulk majority of people who live here or have lived here are outside of his list of favorites. And yet, we are told we're individually known and loved of Him.

I guess it can be comforting to us to feel like we're His favorites. I know we've had that pounded into us. I just don't buy it. It seems that would be completely unjust. And it also seems, when I go to testimony meeting or when I read posts on boards like this, we LDS suffer from a cultural condition much like at Rameumptum. We're so grateful to be privileged while most others dwindle.

It's not our fault when people don't want to hear or believe what we know. And they may never want what they refuse to accept.

[Ahab]

There is always someone who knows more.

You are free to school me some more, because I don't know what you're getting at here. I'd point out in spite of our pride about knowing more than others not of our faith, I think we'll be surprised to learn most on this earth have gained plenty of intelligence, perhaps in many cases more than many a Mormon, through God's other means to dispense eternal truths, which truths they'll be able to carry with them and build upon after this life. Indeed, I'd say we've probably limited ourselves by not being able to open up ourselves to all resources God intends us to use. Its pretty short-sighted, I'd think to assume we are all God has informed.

Not really. I'm talking about many informed LDS as well.

Seems rather presumptuous of you to think the above. God works in mysterious ways, always remember.

Fair enough. SOrry for the mistake. We all cringe at our past ignorance in many instances. I know I do.

Sorry but I can't spend the time it would take to tell you all I know about what we refer to as "Mormonism", but I can repeat for you again that it is everything there is to know about everything.

It's not just what a small percentage of the world's population knows about. That's just an indicator of how many people accept it as truth.

[Ahab]

You're not frustrating me.

There is but one path that leads to Eternal Life. ALL must get on that path or be damned.

Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and there be but few that find it, in this life.

Only LDS receive those ordinances.

Only LDS have the authority to be on the path.

No one here has said that only LDS in this life will be exalted in the next.

Do you want some of the rewards now and the greatest later, or do want to wait and see if those rewards are available to you later?

It might also be helpful to point out that the terms we use, like "LDS" or "Mormon" or "Mormonism", are just blips on the radar indicating what we are talking about here, and the terms aren't always used. But just because something isn't called or referred to as being "Mormon" or part of "Mormonism" that doesn't mean that it isn't. Everything God knows is a part of Mormonism, whether it's something he has already revealed or something he will reveal later.

[stemelbow]

Of course. But what does that have to do with the OP?

The question is why is being LDS or believing the gospel a benefit to us. If we say, it's a benefit because it leads to eternal life, but we also say many will be found as exalted but didn't have the gospel in their mortal lives, then its difficult to see the benefit.

The blessings of the Gospel in this life are interconnected with the Gospel blessings in the next life. The Gospel blessings in this life are necessary for bringing about the blessings in the blessings in the next life. The Gospel blessings from the next life are introduced into this life only by thsoe who already have them. This is demonstrated by the keys to bind and loose. The Church possesses them to bind on earth and in heaven, but God certainly possesses them in Heaven to bind there and on earth.

Many people who go through the most difficult of circumstances in this life often feel grateful for them. Perhaps in the end, those who were never believers but are granted exaltation feel grateful for their mortal lives. Indeed, that would have to be. It doesn't seem to me, if that were true, that anyone was privileged over another.

[pogi]

I guess I see this all differently and that's where it gets difficult. My take is many people gain knowledge and intelligence in this life. many people outside the gospel. Such a knowledgable person could be atheist or of any religion. God works on us all. I don't think He's so cut and dry as some see it here. And I don't think there is more benefit to me, eternally, because I have been given faith, than another. He'll make it all work.

 

I agree that it will all work out for those who hold to what light and truth they are given in this life.  For reasons that I do not fully understand, we have been blessed with a treasure chest of truth and light that very few have had the privilege of knowing in this life.  I think that the blessings of knowledge do not come from a simple cognitive understanding of principles/information, but in living truth.  As members of Christs church, we have more truth available to live by,and that is a privilege indeed!  We are the covenant people of the Lord.  There is perhaps no greater privilege that we have then to make and keep covenants through priesthood ordinances. 

[stemelbow]

You're not frustrating me.

Good to hear. It is not my intent.

 

There is but one path that leads to Eternal Life. ALL must get on that path or be damned.

Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and there be but few that find it, in this life.

Only LDS receive those ordinances.

But, in another sense, we all travel our own individual paths. No one leads a perfect path without divergence. We are told often that sometimes we learn from the difficulties we experience, sometimes we learn as Paul suggested from falling into diverse temptations. We falter. the one path does not mean we must all have the same journey. Not everyone has to believe the gospel during their mortal lives to benefit from life and learn the beauties of eternity.

 

Only LDS have the authority to be on the path.

Sounds interesting but I have no idea what that could mean. I doubt I'm on the same path as you. Our paths are different. And that's probably a good thing. We pick up information and learn individually. The certain key elements that are required like faith, repentance, baptism, GofHoly Ghost, temple marriage, endowments. They'll come and be available to all. It seems to me everyone is on a path to eternity. Some LDS will find themselves eternally Telestialized, I'm sure. SOme Terretrialized...some could possibly be residing with Satan. But that is no different than anyone else.

 

No one here has said that only LDS in this life will be exalted in the next.

But people are saying there's an advantage to being LDS in that we have special knowledge and are the only ones who have an open path to salvation. Doesn't seem much different to me.

 

Do you want some of the rewards now and the greatest later, or do want to wait and see if those rewards are available to you later?

I'm not asking for rewards at this point. I might find myself happier in a lesser kingdom. Its tough for me to accept the notion that some are given all while others not when each and every one of us struggles so divergently, live so individually. Its hard to fathom.

[stemelbow]

It's not our fault when people don't want to hear or believe what we know. And they may never want what they refuse to accept.

I get that.

[stemelbow]

Sorry but I can't spend the time it would take to tell you all I know about what we refer to as "Mormonism", but I can repeat for you again that it is everything there is to know about everything.

It's not just what a small percentage of the world's population knows about. That's just an indicator of how many people accept it as truth.

Fair enough. Too many questions leads to requesting more than is reasonable in response. I think that's probably where we're at. Thanks for your time, though.

[Ahab]

Fair enough. Too many questions leads to requesting more than is reasonable in response. I think that's probably where we're at. Thanks for your time, though.

I'm interested in knowing if you know the value of the knowledge of "Mormonism", even if all you have is a clue.

Whether we learn all there is to know about "Mormonism" now or when we are dead there is still value in having that knowledge. Even if some people may never appreciate the value.

[pogi]

Whether we learn all there is to know about "Mormonism" now or when we are dead there is still value in having that knowledge. 

 

Good point!  It is kind of like asking what is the value in knowledge now, if I can have it later? The value is that you can have it now!  What is the value of investing in an interest bearing account now rather than later?  Like money, I think that knowledge grows exponentially when we live by the principles of that knowledge.  The privilege of having that now is evident.  

[stemelbow]

I'm interested in knowing if you know the value of the knowledge of "Mormonism", even if all you have is a clue.

Whether we learn all there is to know about "Mormonism" now or when we are dead there is still value in having that knowledge. Even if some people may never appreciate the value.

Could be true. But how do we know? Let me add a scenario to consider.

Let's say there was an LDS person who lived 100 years ago. He was in all estimation LDS, belief, practice, whathaveyou. This same person, we'll say, was also very against black people. Felt they were "less valiant" in the pre-existence and should have no part in the gospel. this person's hate is apparent, we'll say, and his/her heart is so negatively affected by it and dies with the same sentiment. Is this person better off in eternity? It seems to me a large reason why we're here is to learn how to love not hate. And it seems to me to carry hate in our hearts is more problematic than it is beneficial.

[stemelbow]

Good point!  It is kind of like asking what is the value in knowledge now, if I can have it later? The value is that you can have it now!  What is the value of investing in an interest bearing account now rather than later?  Like money, I think that knowledge grows exponentially when we live by the principles of that knowledge.  The privilege of having that now is evident.

But there's plenty of knowledge to gain in this world without Mormonism. It'd be wrong, I think, to think someone who is eternally exalted but never had this knowledge in the world is any less benefited than someone who did have that knowledge in mortality but was never exalted.