What's The Benefit Of Gospel Knowledge, And More

[Ahab]

Could be true. But how do we know? Let me add a scenario to consider.

Let's say there was an LDS person who lived 100 years ago. He was in all estimation LDS, belief, practice, whathaveyou. This same person, we'll say, was also very against black people. Felt they were "less valiant" in the pre-existence and should have no part in the gospel. this person's hate is apparent, we'll say, and his/her heart is so negatively affected by it and dies with the same sentiment. Is this person better off in eternity? It seems to me a large reason why we're here is to learn how to love not hate. And it seems to me to carry hate in our hearts is more problematic than it is beneficial.

Seems to me like you're suggesting a weakness could be overcome by gaining more knowledge, and that would be true whether someone was living or dead. And the sooner the better, I think.

[stemelbow]

Seems to me like you're suggesting a weakness could be overcome by gaining more knowledge, and that would be true whether someone was living or dead. And the sooner the better, I think.

Alright. I can buy that.

[CV75]

The question is why is being LDS or believing the gospel a benefit to us. If we say, it's a benefit because it leads to eternal life, but we also say many will be found as exalted but didn't have the gospel in their mortal lives, then its difficult to see the benefit.

Many people who go through the most difficult of circumstances in this life often feel grateful for them. Perhaps in the end, those who were never believers but are granted exaltation feel grateful for their mortal lives. Indeed, that would have to be. It doesn't seem to me, if that were true, that anyone was privileged over another.

That was my original point -- nobody is more privileged than another in the long run, and the Gospel is precisely why. See 2 Nephi 26:8; Alma 13:4 and the like (the eternal law that belong to all mankind--D&C 98:5). The same goes for the pre-existence (Alma 13:5) and into this life.

 

However, we do become more privileged as we become more like God (D&C 76:117; Alma 48:12--61:14 shows that the privilege is "the cause of our Redeemer," or the immortality / eternal life / exaltation of man). Regardless of when that takes place, it is dependent on the Gospel and the keys to bind on earth and in heaven.

Acts 17:26-28 says that God “hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” So no matter how it apperas, the Gospel blesings are available to all.

 

The Church is a necessary vehicle for that because it is part of the process of the blesing of heaven being brought to earth and vice-versa through the doctrines, covenants and ordinances of the Gospel.The blessings of the Gospel don't just magically appear out of nowhere!

[stemelbow]

That was my original point -- nobody is more privileged than another in the long run, and the Gospel is precisely why. See 2 Nephi 26:8; Alma 13:4 and the like (the eternal law that belong to all mankind--D&C 98:5). The same goes for the pre-existence (Alma 13:5) and into this life.

Excellent. I apologize if I misread. I do that from time to time.

 

However, we do become more privileged as we become more like God (D&C 76:117; Alma 48:12--61:14 shows that the privilege is "the cause of our Redeemer," or the immortality / eternal life / exaltation of man). Regardless of when that takes place, it is dependent on the Gospel and the keys to bind on earth and in heaven.

Acts 17:26-28 says that God “hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” So no matter how it apperas, the Gospel blesings are available to all.

 

The Church is a necessary vehicle for that because it is part of the process of the blesing of heaven being brought to earth and vice-versa through the doctrines, covenants and ordinances of the Gospel.The blessings of the Gospel don't just magically appear out of nowhere!

Thanks that was interesting.

[Ahab]

Good point! It is kind of like asking what is the value in knowledge now, if I can have it later? The value is that you can have it now! What is the value of investing in an interest bearing account now rather than later? Like money, I think that knowledge grows exponentially when we live by the principles of that knowledge. The privilege of having that now is evident.

There are some benefits to not knowing some things too, like not knowing what it is like to struggle financially when you could have made other choices had you simply known better about what to do to avoid financial struggles.

When we know better we have an opportunity to do better, and the sooner we know better the better off we are, generally, as long as we do what we know we should do.

But then again, there's something to be said about learning from our mistakes, too.

[JDave]

Pick any religion or moral system in the world, any one of them, and then pick out all the "eternal truth" that they teach.  That eternal truth is the Gospel, and people are blessed to have access to it.  However, it isn't really much of a benefit unless they act on it.  So I totally can see how a devoted and righteous Hindu could have benefited much more from the "Gospel" than a Jack-Mormon who only goes to church to avoid being socially ostracized. 

 

The doctrine of the LDS Church is that the devoted Hindu could gain more eternal truth and come closer to God by bringing all the good gospel knowledge that they have and add to it the additional light of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.  Does that mean that they don't have any benefit otherwise?  Obviously not, since they are better off, in this example, than the Jack-Mormon who has the correct ordinances.

 

I see two sides to the benefit you are asking about.  #1 - Increased access and opportunity to the Gospel.  #2 - The choices we make with respect to the knowledge that we do have.  Since everyone is given some knowledge of the Gospel, they all have some aspect of #1, and #2 is uniformly available to all of God's children.  I believe that when anybody on earth chooses to reach within and beyond themselves to make themselves better, to improve themselves, that they are availing themselves of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.  When we partake of the Sacrament, we are formally stating via covenant, that we uphold the goal of becoming more like Christ -- that we want to align ourselves with eternal truth.  The Church is the official vehicle to facilitate that goal, since God is a God of order.

 

As I think more about it, I think your question is parallel to "What is the benefit to being a bishop?"  I know several released bishops who would say that they "benefited" from being a bishop.  So why is that benefit so sparsely available to Mormons?

 

ETA:  Sorry if that is a bit jumbled.  I don't really have time to flesh it all out, but hopefully that gives you some idea into my thoughts.

Edited April 29, 2014 by JDave

[CV75]

Pick any religion or moral system in the world, any one of them, and then pick out all the "eternal truth" that they teach.  That eternal truth is the Gospel, and people are blessed to have access to it.  However, it isn't really much of a benefit unless they act on it.  So I totally can see how a devoted and righteous Hindu could have benefited much more from the "Gospel" than a Jack-Mormon who only goes to church to avoid being socially ostracized.

I think this speaks to the light of Christ which is a form of the Gospel or a Gospel blessing that is freely given to everyone. The more we heed, the more of it we gain until at some point (in this life or the next) we can receive a fulness by keeping the ordinances and covenants.

[JDave]

I think this speaks to the light of Christ which is a form of the Gospel or a Gospel blessing that is freely given to everyone. The more we heed, the more of it we gain until at some point (in this life or the next) we can receive a fulness by keeping the ordinances and covenants.

That and I was also thinking of truths communicated to prophets long ago and that knowledge is spread and is still around in various religions, as well as divine inspiration given more recently to leaders of other religions.  Though I suppose the second one could be seen as simply coming via the light of Christ.

[CV75]

That and I was also thinking of truths communicated to prophets long ago and that knowledge is spread and is still around in various religions, as well as divine inspiration given more recently to leaders of other religions.  Though I suppose the second one could be seen as simply coming via the light of Christ.

Yes, I think that anything good that did not come by way of the priesthood order as we know it (Adam's and subsequent dispensation) came by way of the Light of Christ. I also think that anything good that was retained through the various apostasies whenever the priesthood order was lost came by virtue of the Light of Christ.

[thesometimesaint]

It might also be helpful to point out that the terms we use, like "LDS" or "Mormon" or "Mormonism", are just blips on the radar indicating what we are talking about here, and the terms aren't always used. But just because something isn't called or referred to as being "Mormon" or part of "Mormonism" that doesn't mean that it isn't. Everything God knows is a part of Mormonism, whether it's something he has already revealed or something he will reveal later.

 

True.

[thesometimesaint]

Good to hear. It is not my intent.

 

But, in another sense, we all travel our own individual paths. No one leads a perfect path without divergence. We are told often that sometimes we learn from the difficulties we experience, sometimes we learn as Paul suggested from falling into diverse temptations. We falter. the one path does not mean we must all have the same journey. Not everyone has to believe the gospel during their mortal lives to benefit from life and learn the beauties of eternity.

 

Sounds interesting but I have no idea what that could mean. I doubt I'm on the same path as you. Our paths are different. And that's probably a good thing. We pick up information and learn individually. The certain key elements that are required like faith, repentance, baptism, GofHoly Ghost, temple marriage, endowments. They'll come and be available to all. It seems to me everyone is on a path to eternity. Some LDS will find themselves eternally Telestialized, I'm sure. SOme Terretrialized...some could possibly be residing with Satan. But that is no different than anyone else.

 

But people are saying there's an advantage to being LDS in that we have special knowledge and are the only ones who have an open path to salvation. Doesn't seem much different to me.

 

I'm not asking for rewards at this point. I might find myself happier in a lesser kingdom. Its tough for me to accept the notion that some are given all while others not when each and every one of us struggles so divergently, live so individually. Its hard to fathom.

 

Each of us has our own cross to bear. Only one person lead that type of life, and none of us are him. Unfortunately we're not all on the same path. Sometimes even the best of us get off the path, and need to repent. Again we all have to make the same journey. Those that in this life don't learn about the journey will be given that knowledge in the next life. Those of us that do know the journey and reject any or all of it will not have a second chance once we are dead. We mere mortals are in no position to judge so we must offer that chance to all. No one here ever has said that.

 

We do have a special knowledge. God requires that we share that special knowledge to all that will listen. Preach the Restored Gospel to every living person, do the Temple work not only for ourselves but for every person whom has ever lived upon this earth. If you labor all the days of your life and bring but one unto Christ. How great will your joy be with him in Heaven? Words defy description of that joy.

 

Those clearly are not available to all during their lifetime. God is just and will not damn any because of no fault of their own. They will be taught. and along with us will receive all the blessings we're willing to receive.

 

But you have already been given rewards. By your obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated. God wants you to receive every blessing he has in-store. But we have to chose to accept them. Show the world what those blessings mean to you, sometimes use words.

 

God takes everything into consideration. For some the hardest thing is just getting up in the morning, God knows each of us and our trials. In the parable of the talents the master gave each of his servants different amounts. He didn't tell them how use to use them only that they do. The two wise servants used their talents wisely and returned a greater amount than was given, but the unwise servant hid them up and returned just what he'd been given. We should be those wise servants.

[stemelbow]

Pick any religion or moral system in the world, any one of them, and then pick out all the "eternal truth" that they teach.  That eternal truth is the Gospel, and people are blessed to have access to it.  However, it isn't really much of a benefit unless they act on it.  So I totally can see how a devoted and righteous Hindu could have benefited much more from the "Gospel" than a Jack-Mormon who only goes to church to avoid being socially ostracized.

As I see it, a devoted and righteous Hindu could have benefited much more from the "Gospel" than any faithful Mormon. Or any, what you call, Jack-Mormon could have benefited from the "Gospel" more than any faithful Mormon as well. I guess this really comes down to disagreement moreso than not having an answer. I don't have an answer, but you do and others do. Those answers for me, and perhaps others, are unsatisfactory. But oh well, there's plenty of questions that remain unanswered for me.

 

The doctrine of the LDS Church is that the devoted Hindu could gain more eternal truth and come closer to God by bringing all the good gospel knowledge that they have and add to it the additional light of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.  Does that mean that they don't have any benefit otherwise?  Obviously not, since they are better off, in this example, than the Jack-Mormon who has the correct ordinances.

 

I see two sides to the benefit you are asking about.  #1 - Increased access and opportunity to the Gospel.  #2 - The choices we make with respect to the knowledge that we do have.  Since everyone is given some knowledge of the Gospel, they all have some aspect of #1, and #2 is uniformly available to all of God's children.  I believe that when anybody on earth chooses to reach within and beyond themselves to make themselves better, to improve themselves, that they are availing themselves of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.  When we partake of the Sacrament, we are formally stating via covenant, that we uphold the goal of becoming more like Christ -- that we want to align ourselves with eternal truth.  The Church is the official vehicle to facilitate that goal, since God is a God of order.

 

As I think more about it, I think your question is parallel to "What is the benefit to being a bishop?"  I know several released bishops who would say that they "benefited" from being a bishop.  So why is that benefit so sparsely available to Mormons?

 

ETA:  Sorry if that is a bit jumbled.  I don't really have time to flesh it all out, but hopefully that gives you some idea into my thoughts.

Thanks for the explanation and time.

[pogi]

As I see it, a devoted and righteous Hindu could have benefited much more from the "Gospel" than any faithful Mormon.

 

How could a Hindu benefit from the peace associated with knowledge of and ordinances of eternal families in this life?  How could they benefit from priesthood and Father's blessings?  How could they benefit from Temple ordinances and the layers of knowledge that can only be found there?  How can they benefit from knowing the Savior and his mission in this life?  How can they benefit from modern revelation and Christian scriptures?  How could they benefit from the gift of the Holy Ghost? etc., etc. 

The gospel offers so much more than just a happy and content life.  Anybody can have that through obedience to the light of Christ, but they miss out on so much more in this life.  The saying goes however, you don't miss what you don't have.  They are ignorantly content.  That may work for you, but I want gospel knowledge and truth.  

Edited April 30, 2014 by pogi

[Ahab]

How could a Hindu benefit from the peace associated with knowledge of and ordinances of eternal families in this life? How could they benefit from priesthood and Father's blessings? How could they benefit from Temple ordinances and the layers of knowledge that can only be found there? How can they benefit from knowing the Savior and his mission in this life? How can they benefit from modern revelation and Christian scriptures? How could they benefit from the gift of the Holy Ghost? etc., etc.

The gospel offers so much more than just a happy and content life. Anybody can have that through obedience to the light of Christ, but they miss out on so much more in this life. The saying goes however, you don't miss what you don't have. They are ignorantly content. That may work for you, but I want gospel knowledge and truth.

I see your point and would simply add the word "more" to what you say you want. Everyone in every other religion already has "some" gospel knowledge, and even people who don't consider themselves to be religious have "some", even though they may not refer to it as "gospel" knowledge, so the only real difference between us (those in our religion) and others is that we have "more" gospel knowledge than everyone else, including the knowledge of how important it is to receive the gospel ordinances which our Father requires us to accept for exaltation.

[CV75]

I guess this really comes down to disagreement moreso than not having an answer.

What is your concept of the Gospel?