Same Sex Marriage

[The Nehor]

Maybe. Sex cults (homosexual and heterosexual) go way back. Considering other translations of the Pearl of Great Price it's not even a stretch, but obvious. The French and Spanish versions, in which I'm fluent, use sexual euphemisms in the relevant passage.

As for my eisegetical presuppositions, you know little of my doctrinal biases, my sexuality, my stand on same-sex marriage, or my views on scripture, both ancient and modern. You're being somewhat eisegetical about my eisegeticality.

Uhhhhh...you do know that they translated from English? Any euphemisms were due to the translator unless you are suggesting that divine inspiration told the translators to put the euphemism in. About 15 years ago I knew a guy fluent in Portugese and a particular part of the translation of the D&C was outright wrong. He went to his Priesthood leader and. It went up the chain and came back that when the texts Disagree go with the English. Edited April 25, 2014 by The Nehor

[Bob Crockett]

Why Me,

Here’s the portion of the Amici State’s brief that refutes your claim that same-sex marriage supporters must support polygamous marriage.

The states that filed the brief include: Massachusetts, California, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington.

I’ve taken the time to type it up, because I think it’s worth quoting as part of this discussion (wherefore, inasmuch I have typed it up by mine own hand, if there be errors, they are the errors of man, not the brief, therefore, condemn not the things of the Amici states... ):

I’d be curious to hear your (and others’) response to the above explanation.

Daniel

You realize it isn't very compelling to cite a lawyer's amicus brief in support of a position you like.   An amicus brief is constrained by neither the law nor the facts.

 

Gay marriage does threaten the traditional institution of marriage.   If the Mars Company decided it would start mixing in Skittles with M&Ms and calling them M&Ms. then M&Ms would not longer have the meaning they once had.

 

Before gay marriage, I could tell my kids that my friend Jim was a married man, and they would understand that meant he was married to a woman.  Now if I tell them that they won't know what it really means, so yes, gay marriage threatens the very meaning of marriage as declared originally by the Roman empire when it made marriage a state-licensed event.

 

Do I personally care?  No.  The government should get out of the marriage business altogether.  But it is truly disingenuous to argue that something isn't threatened if you seek to change the essential character of the thing.  There's a lot of disengenuous argument around this whole issue.  As a life-long liberal, I'm depressed that most of the disingenuous argument comes from the liberal side.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Bob Crockett

[why me]

Why Me,

I’d be curious to hear your (and others’) response to the above explanation.

Daniel

My point was that if same sex marriage were legalized this would give the right to other speical interest groups to request the same rights. What would be the legal basis to deny others the right to marry? And why only allow gays to marry when others would enjoy the same ritghts too? So, throuples should also have the right to marry. True, they wouldn't have the support of hollywood with throuple sit coms but there would be no basis to retrict marriages to only monogamous gays and straights.

 

The can of peas would have been opened and there is no closing it for other speical interest groups.

Edited April 25, 2014 by why me

[rodheadlee]

I think it's clear what the FP & QoT think. What is not clear is whether or not this constitutes their interpretation of scripture & tradition or if this is to be taken as some kind of revelation 

It's a confirmation of God's stance on SSM. The quote refers to God 3 times, Elder Andersen is a Prophet and an Apostle are you rejecting his counsel? He said everything but  Thus Saith the Lord.

Edited April 25, 2014 by rodheadlee

[rockpond]

It's a confirmation of God's stance on SSM. The quote refers to God 3 times, Elder Andersen is a Prophet and an Apostle are you rejecting his counsel? He said everything but Thus Saith the Lord.

And the prophets and apostles have never incorrectly attributed commandments to God?

[california boy]

You realize it isn't very compelling to cite a lawyer's amicus brief in support of a position you like.   An amicus brief is constrained by neither the law nor the facts.

 

Gay marriage does threaten the traditional institution of marriage.   If the Mars Company decided it would start mixing in Skittles with M&Ms and calling them M&Ms. then M&Ms would not longer have the meaning they once had.

 

Before gay marriage, I could tell my kids that my friend Jim was a married man, and they would understand that meant he was married to a woman.  Now if I tell them that they won't know what it really means, so yes, gay marriage threatens the very meaning of marriage as declared originally by the Roman empire when it made marriage a state-licensed event.

 

Do I personally care?  No.  The government should get out of the marriage business altogether.  But it is truly disingenuous to argue that something isn't threatened if you seek to change the essential character of the thing.  There's a lot of disengenuous argument around this whole issue.  As a life-long liberal, I'm depressed that most of the disingenuous argument comes from the liberal side.

 

You do realize that the single biggest problem those that oppose gay marriage is they can't provide any evidence in a court of law that gay marriage hurts anyone or their marriages.  Do you really think your candy comparison would hold up in a court of law?

 

As for disingenuous arguments, you gotta be kidding.  You must not have been around during the prop 8 campaign.  You would not believe the hairbrain arguments made by those that supported prop 8 and paid for by Mormon contributions.  NONE of those hairbrain arguments have ever passed legal scrutiny in case, after case, after case, after case.  

 

Maybe you could come up with just one single argument you would make in a court of law to oppose gay marriage.  If you could, I know a state that is willing to spend 2 million dollars for such an argument.

[JLHPROF]

And the prophets and apostles have never incorrectly attributed commandments to God?

 

This really sounds like someone who has been given an answer and doesn't like it so they refuse to accept the answer.

"The prophet says A.  I don't like or want to accept A.  Therefore I am going to pretend A is invalid until the prophet says B."

[rockpond]

This really sounds like someone who has been given an answer and doesn't like it so they refuse to accept the answer.

"The prophet says A. I don't like or want to accept A. Therefore I am going to pretend A is invalid until the prophet says B."

Sorry, your assesent of me is incorrect.

It was a question... Posed to you... Which you apparently don't want to answer.

[EllenMaksoud]

Or communal marriage, open to all comers regardless of sexual orientation.

 

It would seem the easiest way to destroy the concept of the family is to blur its defintion.

I think that particular joining is obscene and should not be called a Marriage. And with 7 billion souls on Earth and a rapidly approaching World War, should we Marry?

[The Nehor]

I think that particular joining is obscene and should not be called a Marriage. And with 7 billion souls on Earth and a rapidly approaching World War, should we Marry?

 

What rapidly approaching world war?

[krampus]

I think we should illegalize single women from adopting...yeah, even from getting knocked up. It's a perversion!

[The Nehor]

I think we should illegalize single women from adopting...yeah, even from getting knocked up. It's a perversion!

 

I have always said the women who bore my bastards were perverse. Thanks for backing me up on that.

[The Nehor]

I am opposed to same-sex marriage because some crazy people told me that is how the dinosaurs died out:

 

[omni]

I am opposed to same-sex marriage because some crazy people told me that is how the dinosaurs died out:

 

 

Please tell me this is one of your jokes.

[EllenMaksoud]

What rapidly approaching world war?

You don't get out much do you? Stop watching Fox.

[The Nehor]

Please tell me this is one of your jokes.

 

The bit about "crazy people" wasn't a tip-off?

[The Nehor]

You don't get out much do you? Stop watching Fox.

 

I don't watch Fox News. My favorite news source is the BBC.

 

If you are referring to the Ukraine crisis this may lead to a new Cold War and maybe even to a Hot War it is less serious then say....the Cuban Missile crisis for example. As to putting our lives on hold because the world may end......nah. The Apostles have counseled us to just carry on. If a nuclear inferno comes I would rather it kill me while I am living my life happily while doing my duty to God and family rather then find me hunkering down in a fallout bunker unmarried and alienated and avoiding all responsibility so I can survive to play Rambo when the radiation zombies arise.

 

This is not a new state. People throughout history have lived life under the threat of death. Living in Norway a few centuries back you could be knifed in your sleep by Vikings. In most of the world in the 40s you could have an errant bomb dropped on your head. In many nations now there is a real possibility of violent death at any time. Why does a possible World War mean we should suspend living to cower? All it means is more people could die at once. The only problem I see there is a "all hands on deck" situation in the Spirit World to help newcomers acclimate in larger numbers at once and that is not really our problem.

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't watch Fox News. My favorite news source is the BBC.

 

If you are referring to the Ukraine crisis this may lead to a new Cold War and maybe even to a Hot War it is less serious then say....the Cuban Missile crisis for example. As to putting our lives on hold because the world may end......nah. The Apostles have counseled us to just carry on. If a nuclear inferno comes I would rather it kill me while I am living my life happily while doing my duty to God and family rather then find me hunkering down in a fallout bunker unmarried and alienated and avoiding all responsibility so I can survive to play Rambo when the radiation zombies arise.

 

This is not a new state. People throughout history have lived life under the threat of death. Living in Norway a few centuries back you could be knifed in your sleep by Vikings. In most of the world in the 40s you could have an errant bomb dropped on your head. In many nations now there is a real possibility of violent death at any time. Why does a possible World War mean we should suspend living to cower? All it means is more people could die at once. The only problem I see there is a "all hands on deck" situation in the Spirit World to help newcomers acclimate in larger numbers at once and that is not really our problem.

Yeah, what ever ...

[The Nehor]

Yeah, what ever ...

 

You having a bad day? I am familiar with the whole "wanting the world nuked" idea and it usually only comes to me when I have had a bad day or week or month or (rarely) year.

[EllenMaksoud]

You having a bad day? I am familiar with the whole "wanting the world nuked" idea and it usually only comes to me when I have had a bad day or week or month or (rarely) year.

Just wondering why I am Mormon. God put me with them. My ward loves me. The GA is just sitting there wringing their hands, not knowing what to do, wishing I'd go away or die. I'd really like to oblige them, but my heart tells me I am bound to them. Should have just stayed away from here tonight. It has been like picking scabs and tearing out stitches.

 

I've been off psych meds now for 7 years. Thought I was all well and could take it. I'll try to make it to Monday and then call them and say it is time to get medicated again. People will hurt you and think they are right and not even care when the tears stream down your face. So, do I really have to stick around and let them hurt me? Seriously? That would make me a maschocist.

Edited April 26, 2014 by EllenMaksoud

[rodheadlee]

And the prophets and apostles have never incorrectly attributed commandments to God?

The difference between blacks and the Priesthood and SSM is Brigham Young is not here to explain why those of African descent could not hold the priesthood until 1978. Elder Andersen's words are current. He is speaking to us now, today, not from 150 years ago. There is no mistake. SSM will never be compatible with the Plan of Salvation. With SSM there is no continuation of the seed, no birthright, no future heirs to the promises. With SSM there can be no families forever, it causes termination of the bloodline. With SSM you cannot fulfill the commandment to replenish the earth. It causes desolation. It is an abomination that causes desolation.

[JLHPROF]

 SSM will never be compatible with the Plan of Salvation. With SSM there is no continuation of the seed, no birthright, no future heirs to the promises. With SSM there can be no families forever, it causes termination of the bloodline. With SSM you cannot fulfill the commandment to replenish the earth. It causes desolation. It is an abomination that causes desolation.

 

This exactly.  The wages of sin is death.  God's work is to bring to pass life (and always has been).  SSM relationships clearly fall under sin, not Godliness, no matter how legitimized we make them.  They violate eternal principle.

[omni]

The bit about "crazy people" wasn't a tip-off?

 

I know you obviously don't support the graphic, but what I was asking was the creator of the graphic serious or was it satire?

[The Nehor]

I know you obviously don't support the graphic, but what I was asking was the creator of the graphic serious or was it satire?

 

Not sure, couldn't find the origin. I want to believe it is not a parody because that makes it funnier but the smell test says parody.

[Tacenda]

This! +1. Amen. And all that.

+ 2